Alpha wins University of Kentucky Student Government Presidency

[GtownGirl98]

Okay if "Frat" is not good, do you think that "GDI" is any better... because of what "GDI" is short for, would this not make it insulting and disrespectful for all those people that chose or were not given the opportunity to be Greek.

I agree with some of what everyone is saying. We have allowed the true meaning of our selective processes to be watered down because we are currently in an age of acceptance of all. I'm not saying that this is wrong but coming from a campus where disaffliation happens all the time... one wonders that if we were more elitist and selective with some effort having to be produced by the people wanting in, if this would eliminate the number of people wanting out? I'm not saying that we return to an age of harmful hazing but when alumnae can't have events with NMs only or one class only because that is viewed as hazing... that is just wrong and lessing the protential for bonds to be formed.

But back to the thread...

I am glad to hear that this years elections happened without the drama of last years.

[alum]

Originally posted by GtownGirl98
Okay if "Frat" is not good, do you think that "GDI" is any better... because of what "GDI" is short for, would this not make it insulting and disrespectful for all those people that chose or were not given the opportunity to be Greek.

Not that I condone either expression but one is an insult to one's own group whereas the other is an insult to the outsiders. BTW, neither of these expressions are new. I heard them both (including the fraternity/country simile) decades ago when I was an undergrad.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by alum
BTW, neither of these expressions are new. I heard them both (including the fraternity/country simile) decades ago when I was an undergrad.

You would think by now that college-educated Greeks would see what a lame analogy that is, especially to further an argument that shortening the name of an institution demonstrates disprespect for the institution. (Don't tell anyone at Penn State or Cal Tech, though.)

The shortening of one word in this analogy produces a word universally considered obscene. The shortening of the other produces a slang term that for decades was considered perfectly acceptable and even affectionate, and only relatively recently has been viewed by some as having offensive connotations.

If one is going to argue that "frat" is disrespectful, at least make a decent argument without resorting to stupid analogies.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by ilikehazing
The problem is that it does not show any respect to the fraternity.

and

You just showed me exactly the reason why I don't want to live in some direction from the South, known as the North, West, Midwest. No respect for the standing institutions.

Yet . . .

Even though the Alpha's are just a corporation . . .

and

Our national organizations do not represent true fraternities or honor their elitism. From my prospective, they are good for no more than insurance and uniting chapters by ritual and such.

I guess respect for standing institutions is only due when convenient.

Bless his heart. (If he's as Southern as he claims, he knows what I mean.)

[SydneyK]

Originally posted by MysticCat81

Bless his heart.

lol. That's great. You just made my day, MysticCat.

Seriously though, back to the thread topic, I think it's great that UK has these two people in Pres and VP positions. What a great honor for the students and their respective orgs.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Bless his heart. (If he's as Southern as he claims, he knows what I mean.)

Oh no you didn't!



Perhaps I'm "old school" (Southern?/SEC?) but for me, and the majority of my contemporaries, fraternity would/should never be shortened as it relates to NIC/IFC GLOs.

...especially to further an argument that shortening the name of an institution demonstrates disrespect for the institution. (Don't tell anyone at Penn State or Cal Tech, though.)

I agree that shortening does not always show disrespect. The key here is respect. These institutions accept/use their shorten names by choice. And often, the institution is the one to initiate the use. Similarly, respect should be shown with the use of frat. If ABC Fraternity requests to be called a fraternity, then their wishes should be respected and they should be referred to as a fraternity and their members as fraternity men or members. If XYZ approves of *and* gives approval of the use of frat, then the use of frat - *as it relates to XYZ* - is appropriate. When in doubt, it is best to use the formal.

Now a question for the NPC (and others) members. It may be said that Mr. Brown is in a fraternity or frat. And that Miss Jenkins is in a fraternity or sorority. Yet, few NPC members would think to refer to Miss Jenkins as in a "frat" even though her GLO, Pi Beta Phi, is technically a fraternity. Nor would she likely be called a soror by her sisters and or fellow NPC members. Even though it is a common and acceptable term - like frat - that is used by NPHC members. Now why is this?

The shortening of the other [fraternity] produces a slang term that for decades was considered perfectly acceptable and even affectionate, and only relatively recently has been viewed by some as having offensive connotations.

Not so sure what time line you mean by recent. When I was an undergrad last century (late 1970's) frat was rarely used. And almost exclusively as an adjective. One use being somewhat acceptable while the other was more derogatory in nature. "Frat house" was the acceptable term. Usually some one would say "I left Kent Dorfman's car at the house." But on a few occasions "I left Kent Dorfman's car at the frat house" might be used. The derogatory use of frat (again, back in the late 1970's) was "frat rat" which could be considered the equivalent to "GDI" but used for/at fraternity men. As in "Greg Marmalard is such a frat rat."

[sigtau305]

Originally posted by TSteven
Brown wins SG presidency
Issue date: 3/30/06 Section: Campus News
The Kentucky Kernel
(The University of Kentucky)

In a larger turn out than last year's student government elections, Jonah Brown [Alpha Phi Alpha] and Mallory Jenkins [Pi Beta Phi] were elected president and vice president respectively. Brown won the Greek Political Action Committee endorsement - marking the 17th GPAC endorsement winner in the last 18 elections to win the presidency.

ETA: Miss Jenkins' affiliation

Congrats to both.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by TSteven
Nor would she likely be called a soro by her sisters and or fellow NPC members. Even though it is a common and acceptable term - like frat - that is used by NPHC members.

The word is "soror" and not "soro."

[TSteven]

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
The word is "soror" and not "soro."

Thank you. I will make the correction.

This kind of proves my own point to myself. If I can't use a term correctly, then perhaps I should not be using it at all.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by TSteven
This kind of proves my own point to myself. If I can't use a term correctly, then perhaps I should not be using it at all.

I wouldn't go that far.

There are NPHC members who unintentionally misspell "soror" and some who intentionally misspell it to reflect how different people pronounce it (i.e. "sawrah").

Your point and question are still salient.

[ilikehazing]

Okay if "Frat" is not good, do you think that "GDI" is any better... because of what "GDI" is short for, would this not make it insulting and disrespectful for all those people that chose or were not given the opportunity to be Greek.

That's fine.
So it's insulting to those who didn't go Greek? Good!

Why does that matter? I am not going to treat them with respect. GDI is not my institution, that's theirs.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by TSteven
I agree that shortening does not always show disrespect. The key here is respect. These institutions accept/use their shorten names by choice. And often, the institution is the one to initiate the use. Similarly, respect should be shown with the use of frat. If ABC Fraternity requests to be called a fraternity, then their wishes should be respected and they should be referred to as a fraternity and their members as fraternity men or members. If XYZ approves of *and* gives approval of the use of frat, then the use of frat - *as it relates to XYZ* - is appropriate. When in doubt, it is best to use the formal.

I agree completely. That's a major reason I think the analogy referenced above fails -- because it is used to support an argument that it is disrespectful or offensive per se to shorten the name of an institution. That argument won't fly, though, because we shorten names all the time in English. The argument you make is the persuasive one.

And for the record, I don't use the word "frat" myself. But I don't fly off the handle if someone else does. Keying in on your key word "respect," I can usually tell by context whether the person using "frat" means it disrespectfully or not. If I can tell that the person doesn't mean to be disrespectful and it's appropriate under the circumstances, I might say "you know, many fraternity members don't like the word 'frat' because of the connotations it carries." If the person actually means to be disrespectful, I figure nothing I say is going to change their attitude.

Not so sure what time line you mean by recent. When I was an undergrad last century (late 1970's) frat was rarely used. And almost exclusively as an adjective. One use being somewhat acceptable while the other was more derogatory in nature. "Frat house" was the acceptable term. Usually some one would say "I left Kent Dorfman's car at the house." But on a few occasions "I left Kent Dorfman's car at the frat house" might be used. The derogatory use of frat (again, back in the late 1970's) was "frat rat" which could be considered the equivalent to "GDI" but used for/at fraternity men. As in "Greg Marmalard is such a frat rat."

I like to think of anything that happened during my life time as being recent. Sadly, that perspective is a bit warped.

From my memory (being around the same age as you) and from having looked at some contemporary writings and the like, terms like "frat rat" would always have been derogatory, but as late as the 60s and early 70s, "frat house," "we're frat brothers" or "are you in a frat?" would not be considered derogatory -- the Greek equivalent of "ain't," perhaps, but not derogatory. If you go back earlier, I actually came across a song in a fraternity song book (from the first half of the 20th Century) that made reference to the "dear old Frat." I think the deliberate move away from the term had a lot to do with the impetus in the mid-late 70s and following years to, for want of a better term, "rehabilitate" the general image of fraternities.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
I agree completely. That's a major reason I think the analogy referenced above fails -- because it is used to support an argument that it is disrespectful or offensive per se to shorten the name of an institution. That argument won't fly, though, because we shorten names all the time in English. The argument you make is the persuasive one.

And for the record, I don't use the word "frat" myself. But I don't fly off the handle if someone else does. Keying in on your key word "respect," I can usually tell by context whether the person using "frat" means it disrespectfully or not. If I can tell that the person doesn't mean to be disrespectful and it's appropriate under the circumstances, I might say "you know, many fraternity members don't like the word 'frat' because of the connotations it carries." If the person actually means to be disrespectful, I figure nothing I say is going to change their attitude.

I like to think of anything that happened during my life time as being recent. Sadly, that perspective is a bit warped.

From my memory (being around the same age as you) and from having looked at some contemporary writings and the like, terms like "frat rat" would always have been derogatory, but as late as the 60s and early 70s, "frat house," "we're frat brothers" or "are you in a frat?" would not be considered derogatory -- the Greek equivalent of "ain't," perhaps, but not derogatory. If you go back earlier, I actually came across a song in a fraternity song book (from the first half of the 20th Century) that made reference to the "dear old Frat." I think the deliberate move away from the term had a lot to do with the impetus in the mid-late 70s and following years to, for want of a better term, "rehabilitate" the general image of fraternities.

Excellent post.

And for what it is worth, while I might cringe, I too do not get bent out of shape when I hear "frat" used respectfully or appropriately.

[FeeFee]

Congratulations to Jonah and Mallory.