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  #46  
Old 09-05-2005, 08:08 PM
darling1 darling1 is offline
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Post coming out of my 1st trimester hellhole :)

although i agree with a person's right to free speech, i don't feel that it was necessary for kanye to state the obvious. anybody with a brain can look at our history and see how much this country 'loves'.....slavery, lynching, institutionalized racism are the few ways that this country has 'loved' us.

9-11 has been an example to us that much this country and its citizens are expendable to the government and their personal interests.

after day 2, food, water and additional supplies should have been there. we can be in iraq in a heartbeat to 'free' them, feed their children and comfort them but it took 5 days for anyone to bring a box of anything.

like 9-11 eventually all of the anger and frustration of this will probably die down to a complacency that is like a favorite blanket to us.

it breaks my heart watching all of this hurt, pain, death. what hurts more is that it is a possibility that nothing will really ever change and that our government will never be held accountable for this travesty.
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  #47  
Old 09-05-2005, 08:23 PM
darling1 darling1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RACooper
I think the first step as cliche as it sounds is to stop seeing people as black or white - to look past the colour and see the person. That is the biggest and most important step that a person can take themselves... and its a hard one because so many in the US seem to have/give an inordinate amount of weight to race and "race relations". Ideally colour should really only be used as a discriptive device, not as an identifier... but then again this is all just me spitballing really.

When it comes to NO it find it incredibly frustrating that people are politicizing or racializing the rescue and relief effort - all the talk of "our people" or accusations of favouritism really only cloud and dilute the many message: People need help! Not blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, native americans, or creoles,; but PEOPLE period.

==============================================

i really wish i lived in your world. the idealist in me believes that this travesty isnt a race or class issue. the reality is, race and class play a role in this...a big one!

secondly, this country's foundation was based on race and class. europeans believed that they could come to the united states and 'overthrough' the native americans that lived here. black people were brought to this country as cattle to be cheap labor and physical and psychological guinea pigs. you can't help but consider race when dealing with the social and political issues of this country.

at some point, no matter how much you attempt to look at people for just that, people, race becomes and issue, directly or indirectly.

until our society becomes more altruistic and less focused on 'me and mine' race and class will always be at issue. until 'we' realize the usa and the government for what it is, this dialogue will simply be a meaningless discussion of shoulda, coulda, wouldas.
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  #48  
Old 09-05-2005, 09:10 PM
ladygreek ladygreek is offline
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Re: coming out of my 1st trimester hellhole :)

Quote:
Originally posted by darling1
although i agree with a person's right to free speech, i don't feel that it was necessary for kanye to state the obvious. anybody with a brain can look at our history and see how much this country 'loves'.....slavery, lynching, institutionalized racism are the few ways that this country has 'loved' us.

Unfortunately as we are finding out, to many it wasn't the obvious.
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  #49  
Old 09-05-2005, 09:11 PM
ladygreek ladygreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by darling1
==============================================

i really wish i lived in your world. the idealist in me believes that this travesty isnt a race or class issue. the reality is, race and class play a role in this...a big one!

secondly, this country's foundation was based on race and class. europeans believed that they could come to the united states and 'overthrough' the native americans that lived here. black people were brought to this country as cattle to be cheap labor and physical and psychological guinea pigs. you can't help but consider race when dealing with the social and political issues of this country.

at some point, no matter how much you attempt to look at people for just that, people, race becomes and issue, directly or indirectly.

until our society becomes more altruistic and less focused on 'me and mine' race and class will always be at issue. until 'we' realize the usa and the government for what it is, this dialogue will simply be a meaningless discussion of shoulda, coulda, wouldas.
hear, hear!
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  #50  
Old 09-05-2005, 09:45 PM
darling1 darling1 is offline
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Re: Re: coming out of my 1st trimester hellhole :)

for me, this is what hurts the most.




Quote:
Originally posted by ladygreek
Unfortunately as we are finding out, to many it wasn't the obvious.
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  #51  
Old 09-05-2005, 10:34 PM
darling1 darling1 is offline
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yeah, im still out tha hole....

i most recently found out from my mother that i am a direct descendant of frederick douglass. are you aware of who this man is and why to all black people he is one of the greatest men of all time? perhaps reading about him, his life and about society when he was alive will provide you some additional insight on my people.

things fall apart by chinua achebe (sp?)--another book you might want to pick up to give you additional insight on imperialism and its impact on africa and black americans in this country.


the fact that you wonder if there are really race problems in this country is mind boggling. it is also a reflection of how african american history and our issues are really of no consequence to so many people in the usa accept for perhaps each february of each month. your questions also show just how sheltered a life you have had whether by choice or consequence.


lastly, i am sure that you genuinely mean well, but please stop wondering what you can do to show me that you arent a racist. we know you cant help being white and having your experiences; i cant help being black and puerto rican. but you can help by not continue to be ignorant--meaning ignorant of this country's history, ignorant of what goes on beyond your front door or refusing to look at what our elected officials do or not do beyond what the media shows.



==============================================

Quote:
Originally posted by irishpipes
I am sorry to have offended you so much. I actually think Nagin should be commended for staying in N.O. I think that is why he got so upset the other day on the radio - he was experiencing all of this first hand and the stranded people needed a spokesperson who knew exactly what was going on.

I don't know how to ask this without making everyone's head explode, but I am going to try. I am a white person. I can't help that I am a white person. What is it that I can do that would make blacks know that I am not a racist? Do you think that the history is so bad between blacks and whites that this could never happen? I am not asking this to cause trouble. I am asking because I seriously don't even know where to start, and I think that racism is something that needs to be dealt with in every individual in order for it to be combatted. However, I know that I feel frustrated that maybe no matter what I do as an individual, blacks will see me as white and therefore a racist. I realize that is nothing compared to the frustrations that blacks have endured over the many years, but I would seriously like to know. My question comes from a position of reconciliation, not hostility.
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  #52  
Old 09-06-2005, 03:01 PM
#1 Leading Lady #1 Leading Lady is offline
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I am not the biggest fan of Kanye West but I agree at what and where he made this statement. Folks always want us to sugar coat stuff and some things just can't be sugar coated to get the point across. I bet if Dubya and his people didn't hear anything else they HEARD THAT! It caught Dubya's attention and America's too. And I want a T-shirt
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  #53  
Old 09-06-2005, 03:24 PM
mulattogyrl mulattogyrl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by irishpipes
Well apparently I am an ignorant, sheltered person. Thanks for that. I think I WAS trying to pay attention to things outside my front door, but now being brutally rebuffed will go back inside. I thought dialogue would be a positive thing. I had hoped that those who saw my post might recognize that I was taking a risk - it would have been easier to stay in my oh so sheltered world.
I think you were trying to pay attention too, and as you've already read, not all of us agree. I wouldn't go back into my oh so sheltered world, I would continue to try and learn despite anger you feel is directed at you. If you sincerely want to continue to learn, do so. I thank you for your efforts.
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  #54  
Old 09-06-2005, 03:33 PM
Wonderful1908 Wonderful1908 is offline
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I don't care where he said it or how he said because it is 100% true. I haven't felt this pissed off about being Black in America since Rodney King! I mean I could of swore I pay taxes, vote,etc. do my people truly not count in America at this level. Every core in my body knows that had it been 30,000 white people at the superdome POOR or RICH they would have been out of there no later than Wend. morning!!
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  #55  
Old 09-06-2005, 07:13 PM
starang21 starang21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RACooper
I think the first step as cliche as it sounds is to stop seeing people as black or white - to look past the colour and see the person. That is the biggest and most important step that a person can take themselves... and its a hard one because so many in the US seem to have/give an inordinate amount of weight to race and "race relations". Ideally colour should really only be used as a discriptive device, not as an identifier... but then again this is all just me spitballing really.

When it comes to NO it find it incredibly frustrating that people are politicizing or racializing the rescue and relief effort - all the talk of "our people" or accusations of favouritism really only cloud and dilute the many message: People need help! Not blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, native americans, or creoles,; but PEOPLE period.
do they sell rose tinted contacts?

andrew didn't take nearly this long.
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  #56  
Old 09-06-2005, 10:33 PM
RACooper RACooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by starang21
do they sell rose tinted contacts?

andrew didn't take nearly this long.
Hey I earned those rose tinted contacts

I was lucky enough to grow-up in a time and place were multicultralism was the "thing", were different coloured skin was just that a difference in the colour of skin nothing more - nothing less. Personally I wish that everyone had a pair.

Unfortunately even this wonderfully idilyic world was eventually shatter by some ignornant tool - in my particular case the old lady across the street who yelled something about "black devils" near her flowers... and being the niave 11 years we were we looked behind us to see these "black devils" - not realizing at first she ment Mathew and Jamie. Up to that point racism was only something from the movies or the happened in the "States" (seriously that how we thought as kids).

The thing is the hurt look in my friends eyes, and the inability of the "wacky old lady" to explain why Matt and Jamie were so bad was perhaps the formative moment that made me understand the stupidity of racism... a understanding only reinforced as I grew-up dealing with other morons; and finally cemented in the former Yugoslavia in '95.
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  #57  
Old 09-07-2005, 12:41 AM
Tickled Pink 2 Tickled Pink 2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RACooper
...
People need help! Not blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, native americans, or creoles,; but PEOPLE period.
You're not the first person that I've seen post this & you are absolutely right. But understand - when the AA community says "our people need help" we are not saying that people of other races don't need help. We're not saying that we should've been/ should be helped first. We realize that everyone needs help. We realize that this SHOULDN'T be about race. But we see what the rest of America is slowly starting to acknowledge - MOST of those people were African American and poor. And many of us feel (myself included) that those in the Bush administration turned this into a race issue by responding to this in a biased manner (based on race/class) and that they dragged their feet because of it - thus hurting everyone. When you hear us crying out "our people" we are outraged, frustrated, hurt, tired, and angry, but we are not saying everyone doesn't need help.
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  #58  
Old 09-07-2005, 05:51 PM
AKA_Monet AKA_Monet is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by irishpipes
I don't know how to ask this without making everyone's head explode, but I am going to try. I am a white person. I can't help that I am a white person. What is it that I can do that would make blacks know that I am not a racist? Do you think that the history is so bad between blacks and whites that this could never happen?
Why do I have to read this now, of all days--especially when I am in a FOUL mood and have to make a response in the Delta Thread???

My only answer for you is to have buck-wild sex with a black man or woman for that matter and maybe you can see a day in the life of what it is like...

No really, Irishpipes, you are handicapping yourself with "white privelege" to attempt to scurry back into the "world" that you restrict yourself into understanding... And now that you have crossed a barrier or rather opened your "Pandora's Box" that you will be incapable of closing because your mind and your heart will not allow you to remain in this state, you can CHOOSE to take this opportunity to learn more about others different from yourself which will lead to greater understanding of yourself OR you can forever remain mediocre in your life of not yet understanding...
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  #59  
Old 09-07-2005, 06:49 PM
CrimsonTide4 CrimsonTide4 is offline
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just some articles in my inbox

1. Barely a week after rapper/producer Kanye West appeared on the cover of Time Magazine and was branded "the smartest man in hip-hop,: he did, what many believed to be the unthinkable. West used the platform of the NBC sponsored Hurricane Katrina Relief Effort Live Telethon to tell the world that racist media images were depicting Black people as "looters" and whites as "finders" of food and basic necessities.

West's comments echoed what many have been saying for days after Associated Press images circulated on the Internet with captions describing whites as "finding" and Black's as "looting".

Visibly nervous, West declared that he found it difficult to watch the news because the overwhelming majority of those facing the harshest consequences from the hurricane and its aftermath were Black. After acknowledging the noble deeds of the Red Cross, West told the world that the recently deployed National Guard and Marines were given permission to shoot and kill "us." Indeed, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco told reporters that the National Guard had M16s that were "locked and loaded." "They know how to kill; they are more than willing to kill, and they will kill," the stern Governor declared.

West was no fool. He made the connection between racist media images and how those depictions would structure the relationship between the military and those labeled as "looters." For West, the dye was cast for the victims to be further victimized by the media and those purportedly there to help. Even more profoundly, West said that America was "set up to help the poor, the Black people, the less well-off, as slow as possible", linking the Bush Administration's neglect and failure to act, with larger systemic problems rooted in the American body politic.

NBC predictably distanced itself from West's remarks, stating that "the telecast was a live television event wrought with emotion," and that "…West departed from the scripted comments that were prepared for him, and his opinions in no way represent the views of the networks." The network went on to say "it would be most unfortunate if the efforts of the artists who participated tonight and the generosity of millions of Americans who are helping those in need are overshadowed by one person's opinion."

The desperation of people stranded and homeless in the Gulf region demanded such a vociferous response. Indeed West's outburst has been vindicated by the voices of those describing the situation there. One man declared that the National Guard was treating them like "rats" in the New Orleans Superdome while others sat in anguish waiting for help that was said to be on the way, but nowhere to be seen. The ghastly scenes of people lying in squalor, dying in the streets and of babies too weak to cry proved over and over again that "the Louis Vuitton Don" (one of Kanye's rap monikers) was not off the mark.

Kanye West knew that the NBC platform was a precious opportunity to cut the charade and challenge the Federal Government for its failures in New Orleans. Instinctively knowing that only a few seconds remained, a steely eyed Kanye summed up his sentiments in seven words: "Bush does not care about Black people!"

This was a bold move for an artist at the top of a career that few could ever dream of. Though celebrities have criticized the Bush Administration for the so-called "war on terror" and its dastardly militarism in the Middle East, few have been as sharp and direct as West. In standard hip-hop fashion he did not mince his words and stay married to the script. When the stakes were as high as the water was to the necks of those still trapped in their attics across New Orleans, Kanye West presented one of the greatest freestyles ever produced for a live audience. In the tradition of Louis Armstrong and all the great jazz improvisers, West stated what was immediately on his heart and for this we must applaud him.

For many, Kanye's remarks were shocking and uncalled for. Katrina was a natural disaster that the Feds had simply underestimated. In an age of political correctness West's opinions were simply wrong. After all, the Bush Administration declared that this was not a time to "play politics." But West, one of our shining geniuses from the "City of Chi" knows that politics was always in play. He, unlike the Bush Administration, also knew that time was of the essence. Desperate times call for sharp clear thinking people to step up to the plate and speak truth to power. Thank God that Time Magazine alerted those who didn't yet know it that Kanye West is one of the smartest among us.



Fanon Che Wilkins is an Assistant Professor of History and African American Studies and Research Program at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and can be reached at fanonche@uiuc.edu


2.Stars React To Kanye's Comments


Diddy said Kanye "spoke from his heart."

It was just a week ago that Hurricane Katrina roared through the Gulf Coast causing untold damage and misery.

The week of horror that followed has been brightened only by the overwhelming aid pouring in from people across the country.

Over the weekend, Hollywood continued to do its part to help at various telethons, including "A Concert for Hurricane Relief," benefit that aired on NBC and other networks Friday night. However, the focus took an unexpected turn thanks to the comments of Kanye West.

"I hate the way they portray us in the media," Kanye said to the cameras during the live broadcast. "If you see a black family, it says they're looting. If you see a white family, they're looking for food."

The oft-outspoken rapper then added, "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Access Hollywood's Tim Vincent was at the benefit to get the stars' reaction to Kanye's comments.

"I think he spoke from his heart," Diddy told Tim. "He spoke what a lot of people feel."

"I think what Mr. West said provided one extreme that we should examine," Harry Connick Jr. said. "I think a lot of things were said that needed to be said and we raised the money. That's why we were here simply to raise money and we did."

NBC's live event has already raised $18 million to aid the victims of Katrina. But it was West's final comment that caused the NBC cameras to immediately cut away to a stunned and unsuspecting Chris Tucker.

Tim caught up with Chris right after his appearance.

"What did you think about what [Kanye] said on-air?" Tim asked.

" I heard a little bit of it but I think he spoke from his heart and what's he seen and what he's heard," Tucker replied.

But again, the focus of the night was to raise funds for the victims of Katrina and the stars showed up in full force ready to lend a hand. Mike Myers, Richard Gere, Hilary Swank, Diddy and Leonardo DiCaprio were all on hand and Leo even got a greeting from New York governor George Pataki.

"You're a great New Yorker," the governor told Leo.

"Thank you very much," DiCaprio humbly said.

And while all the stars were happy to help, for some it was difficult to cope with the emotions surrounding it all, including Hilary Swank who was unable to speak about it afterwards.

"Too sad, thank you for understanding," Hilary said as she passed our cameras.

Some other celebs were just plain mad, including Richard Gere.

"What do you think that there's already criticism being leveled at the government for being so lax in some people's minds in reacting to the situation?" Tim asked the actor.

"Well I think we're all feeling anger. I think we have a right to be angry," Gere explained. "At the same time, we have work to do. We can't expect that someone else is going to do it but our elected officials could have done better on this one."

Diddy seemed to agree.

"So many excuses. It ain't adding up, man. It's not making sense. If the reporters can get there and you all can get there with mics, somebody should be able to get there with food. There ain't no excuse," he said.

Harry Connick Jr. took a trip to what he called the "war zone" and saw first-hand the personal toll taken by the hurricane.

"This is the United States and I cannot believe it, it's going to take me a long time to wrap my head around the fact that these people weren't helped sooner," he explained. "It's not like they died in the hurricane. They died because they starved to death three or four days later under bright blue skies."


Actress Lindsay Lohan, who spent about two-and-a-half months in New Orleans earlier this year, had her own personal experience with a Katrina victim.

"There was this girl the other night I was at dinner and she was from New Orleans. She came here for a trip for the day. Ironically, she couldn't go back and she is here. So I kind of took her under my wing. I said 'Do you want to come and stay with us for the rest of the night?'" Lohan revealed. "It's just the scariest thought. I can't even imagine."
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  #60  
Old 09-07-2005, 08:31 PM
Lady of Pearl Lady of Pearl is offline
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Unfortunately, who else would speak out on behalf of poor people affected by this devastating situation. The truth hurts. As far as I 'm concerned Kayne West with his ever controversial self- was exercising his freedom of speech, despite censorship from the media.
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