Welcome to Denver, home of stupid people.

[kddani]

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
perhaps that was the point.........

It wasn't a very well-made point then.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by AGDee
A large part of the problem in Detroit is that so many are training their dogs to fight and having illegal dog fights. Those dogs are bred and trained to be mean. They are having a hard time cracking down on those folks. I don't think a pit bull ban in Detroit is far away, if only to help them crack down on those people. It's not fair to the responsible owners, but I think they're at their wits' end.

(I think the "wolf" looking dog you're talking about is either an Alaskan Malamute or a Huskie. I have a malamute and she's the biggest baby in the world. She wouldn't hurt a flea ever.)

Dee

It might be a Malamute. It's smaller than the Black Lab, maybe like a mid-size dog?

My cousin had a Norweigen (wow spell much?) Huskie that was by far the sweetest dog in the world. Ironically I'm scared of big dogs. Give me a Yorkie or Shih Tzu or Malti-Poo and I'm in love. Put a big dog near me and I freak out.

[honeychile]

My brother & sister-in-law have Dobermans, a dog which IS bred to protect its owners. Living very solitary on 35 acres, they feel that it is necessary to have dogs which will scare poachers etc merely by the way they look.

They have gone out of their way to make sure each of their dogs is well socialized, and friendly. They've had lessons in both obedience and agility. Our entire family knows their cue words, and what to do (or not do) to keep them on our side.

Yet, a few years ago (obviously, I am not a child), I stooped to pet the one (he was just looking so cute!), when he suddenly jumped and bit me on the face! His bite was such that, had my brother not immediately stunned him, my nose and mouth would have been bitten off. I went into shock (after the proverbial primal scream!), and they hustled me off to a doctor to treat me so that the dog would not be destroyed. Praise the Lord, you can only see the scars if I point them out to someone!

I cuddled that dog from the time he was a puppy - fed him, treated him, and had no fear of him whatsoever. Shiloh was a good dog (he died of cancer about 6 months ago), but the bottom line is, Dobermans are not bred to be friendly! You can do everything imaginable to try to make them "nice" or "non-agressive", but you're going against their genetic makeup.

I'm sure that many people have wonderful, fun, loving pitbulls, too - but that's not what they were bred to be. I told my story only because if Shiloh could turn on someone, so could any other of the protection dogs. It's the same as having a gun in the house - it's there to protect you, but that doesn't mean it can't be used against you, too. You learn how to cut the odds, but you're never 100% positive...

[damasa]

Originally posted by honeychile


I'm sure that many people have wonderful, fun, loving pitbulls, too - but that's not what they were bred to be. I told my story only because if Shiloh could turn on someone, so could any other of the protection dogs. It's the same as having a gun in the house - it's there to protect you, but that doesn't mean it can't be used against you, too. You learn how to cut the odds, but you're never 100% positive...

Just about any dog can turn at just about any time, it's not just about "protection dogs."

One of the first instincts of a dog is for prtoection of self and then protection of owner, regardless of breed. If that species of dog feels that they might be in harm or their owner might be in harm, they'll attack. Now what triggers this, I'm not sure because dogs have different degrees of understanding.

But dogs can be trained to feel certain degrees of comfort and they have to be trained properly. The dog my parents have right now is a German Shepherd/Huskie mix. He's a monster of a dog and he weighs like 130 lbs. Yet, he was trained from day one to be gentle and caring. He's never even snarled, not at another person or at another dog. Hell, he even whines and jumps near the closest person when he hears thunder.

In your story, the Dobermans run the ranch, regardless of their training in obedience and agility, they have a different sense of protection because of that area. If they were trained cue words that you guys knew what to or not to say, well that's part of the problem right there. If there are actions that dogs are trained to do and you know when or when not to say them, it's in their training.

In any event, this simply is not fair - this pitbull ban in Denver that is. There is no true justification for it.

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by damasa
Just about any dog can turn at just about any time, it's not just about "protection dogs."

One of the first instincts of a dog is for prtoection of self and then protection of owner, regardless of breed. If that species of dog feels that they might be in harm or their owner might be in harm, they'll attack. Now what triggers this, I'm not sure because dogs have different degrees of understanding.

Yes, this is true, but the question is -can that dog KILL you? I have been bitten by more chihuahuas than any other breed-but they are not going to cause death (unless they are rabid but that is why I am vaccinated for rabies).

Believe it or not I have not met an aggressive doberman. Of course most of what I see are not guard dogs. When the police bring in their attack dogs they are always muzzled for our safety. These dogs are generally only trusted by their handler.

[damasa]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
Yes, this is true, but the question is -can that dog KILL you? I have been bitten by more chihuahuas than any other breed-but they are not going to cause death (unless they are rabid but that is why I am vaccinated for rabies).

Many breeds are capable of death.

I'm not arguing that a pit can be dangerous because it can be but so can so many other dogs. This is an unfair law. It's unfair to responsible owners and it's unfair to properly trained pits. Taking them and exterminating them is a horrible thing to do.

And I mentioned the fact that many breeds are dangerous because of honeychile's story. She mentioned how she was attacked yet pretty much gave the reason for it as well in her story. I'd still consider the Doberman and German Shepherd to be the most dangerous breeds. They are both very intelligent and they are both very lethal. During the Nazi era in Germany, the Germans were relentless in their use of these two breeds. They would turn these dogs on people in the hopes that they would kill them, many times succeeding.

Besides that, from what I understand this ban also includes dogs that "look like pits." That's bs, who is to say if the dog looks like a pit or not? People have differing views. Not to mention that a lot of breeds can be mistaken for a pit if the breed is mixed. Especially the boxer which appears to be an aggressive and very muscular dog but it is very very well mannered and tis great with kids.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by kddani
It wasn't a very well-made point then.

Agree. The name of the thread really has nothing to do with the topic.

If you want to say Denver City Council is stupid -- heck, maybe even some pit bull haters might agree with you.

Actually, Denver is one of the statistically highest educated cities in the nation.

[Tom Earp]

Ex Pit Bull Lover here!

KC Ks out lawed them as a Mean Bowser, well Tigre was a pussy for a Pit.

He did bite Kids as they invaded His Terrirtory.

Any Dog will do the same thing. Also, any dog will bite an owner when they blow right in their faces in a terasing Manner.

It isnt the dog who is stupid, it is the Master of a (DUMB ANIMAL?)!

The only Reason People in Denver are Stupid (?) is because of the Altitued! Less Air!!!!

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Tom Earp Less Air!!!!

<<<<Gasp!>>>>

It's tough to deal here in New York City -- Too much damned oxygen in the air.

[honeychile]

Just to clarify things, I was trying to make the point that SOME dogs - and I don't pretend to know enough about pit bulls to included them or not - are "designer dogs" with certain characteristics bred into them. If you doubt me, watch the Westminster, or any other AKC show, and they'll tell you which. Dobermans, who are only a little over 120 years old, ARE bred to protect, just as some were bred to hunt or herd.

BTW, Shiloh bit me while he was at my office, not on the ranch. He had no reason to be protecting anyone at the time, but he had just woken up. "Let sleeping dogs lie" is something I take to heart!! In contrast, when my mother's dog (a Bichon Frise) is playing rough, he will still cover his teeth with his mouth when "biting" you!

[Xylochick216]

We've had 7 pit bull attacks in my area within a three week span. On Friday we ran a story about a pit bull that attacked a woman's parked car and ruined it. I don't know a good solution to the problem because I know there are good pit bulls out there, but we're not seeing other types of unprovoked dog attacks. I'm glad no one in my neighborhood has a pit bull. If they did, I'd be staying inside.

[aggieAXO]

Blaine,

I understand where you are coming from, but... I see WAY more pit bulls than G.Shep. or dobermans combined. This is a hot topic in the vet community b/c many clients are looking to us to put in the dogs record that their dog is not a pit of any kind nor does it contain any mixture of a pit-which in many cases cannot be determined. It puts us in an awkward position. I do not see this becoming a law in Austin at any point thank goodness!

So does anyone have any suggestions. How do we punish the irresponsible owners? How do we prevent these attacks from happening? I would love to get any ideas from y'all and pass it along to the veterinarians I chat with who live in these cities.

[damasa]

Originally posted by honeychile


BTW, Shiloh bit me while he was at my office, not on the ranch. He had no reason to be protecting anyone at the time, but he had just woken up. "Let sleeping dogs lie" is something I take to heart!! In contrast, when my mother's dog (a Bichon Frise) is playing rough, he will still cover his teeth with his mouth when "biting" you!

Just to clarify, it doesn't really matter all that much where the dog is at, if the dog was bred/trained that way, something triggered it. My thoughts would be possibly in an unfamiliar area, maybe (your office) and/or the fact that the dog was just waking up.

I didn't disagree with you that some dogs are designer dogs. Yes, I do know that some dogs are bred with certain characteristics, that wasn't a disupte. What it comes down to is proper training.

In any event, I'm sorry the dobie attacked you. I love Dobies a lot but they still scare the hell out of me! I also personally dislike being around any dog that has been trained to be any type of guard dog or attack dog. No matter how obedient they are, if they can attack on cue words, that's a no go for me.

Regardless of the pits or not, taking dogs that "look like pits" is horrible because as I stated before, many people mistake Boxers as pits.

It is sad because a lot of people buy pits without giving them the proper training they need, because they are/were bred to be a vicious dog. I only mean to say that it's unfair to the owners and dogs that maintained the proper training/went through the proper training.

[damasa]

Originally posted by aggieAXO
Blaine,

I understand where you are coming from, but... I see WAY more pit bulls than G.Shep. or dobermans combined. This is a hot topic in the vet community b/c many clients are looking to us to put in the dogs record that their dog is not a pit of any kind nor does it contain any mixture of a pit-which in many cases cannot be determined. It puts us in an awkward position. I do not see this becoming a law in Austin at any point thank goodness!

So does anyone have any suggestions. How do we punish the irresponsible owners? How do we prevent these attacks from happening? I would love to get any ideas from y'all and pass it along to the veterinarians I chat with who live in these cities.

Don't get me wrong, I see where you are coming from as well. Pits are the only dogs I truly can't trust to be around because like many have said, they are bred to be more or less mean. But it's more about not knowing the owner and how responsible they have been with their dog.

I guess I just find it sad that some people could be losing a well-trained, loveable house pet from this. It's just hard to understand because my father and uncle once bred and trained dogs.

I think owners who are not responsible should be punised accordingly. I think there is a guy somewhere in the bay area who is being charged with attempted murder because he had his pit attack someone. And another case where a mother left her son home alone with two pits (one was in heat), is being charged but I'm not sure what for exactly. I think harsh penalties should be put in place for people that are irresponsible pet owners. I'm talking serious jail time among other things...

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by damasa

I think owners who are not responsible should be punised accordingly. I think there is a guy somewhere in the bay area who is being chared with attempted murder because he had his pit attack someone. And another case where a mother left her son home alone with two pits (one was in heat), is being charged but I'm not sure what for exactly. I think harsh penalties should be put in place for people that are irresponsible pet owners. I'm talking serious jail time among other things...

On these same lines, I had a client that brought her 2 dead dogs in for cremation b/c the robber let his pits in the house first to kill the dogs so he could then rob the house-scum. I am not sure what happened with the case or the robbers dogs. People suck. I am so excited that I get to work tomorrow and meet more irrespoinsible pet owners .