Paper Members

[1Blonde]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sexy Mocha:
[B]I don't think anyone is being yelled at...THIS IS YELLING AT SOMEONE. But, sometimes it does happen , get over it!
Agreed

Blonde1, I just got home and checked this forum...and you seem like you've become more pleasant since this morning.
It's all a ruse. I'm quietly seething as I type. Hmmm. Maybe I'll put on the angry face icon.


)(And please don't say anything smart like " My being pleasant has nothing to do with you."
Oh but Mocha! You are so charming. Could there be any other reason?

I know it doesn't! And... I knew you couldn't be that bad of a person.
Well... I won't mention the warrants if you don't.

I just think you're opinions/ideas are so much easier to digest if you don't come off so rudely.
Mother said I should play nice

I'm really out of here this time...it's been a real experience "conversing" with you!
I'm rubber and you're--- oh wait, was that a compliment? Gee thanks!

[Diva_56]

Hey all,

I have been reading this thread and have been very disturbed by the all out assault on Blonde1 and others for her God given right to have an opinion, I do not believe she was being pompus or rude, she is just asking the questions that most of us would not ask... don't get mad with her for having a voice, you must realize like myself there are many here who are not greek and anything you say will have an adverse view on not only yourself, but the organization you choose to represent. Now the facts remain the same, if you want to change MIP, go to your respective orgs and legislate... I personally don't feel its right for any member of a greek org to discriminate on a bro/sis who just happens to come in with a process that your org implemented. But would you say I am overstepping my bounds with that statement because I am not greek? To each his/her own, but it makes common sense to me. A blessed day to all and keep the peace...


------------------
In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you

Janet Jackson

[Sexy Mocha]

Originally posted by Diva_56:
Hey all,

I have been reading this thread and have been very disturbed by the all out assault on Blonde1 and others for her God given right to have an opinion, I do not believe she was being pompus or rude, she is just asking the questions that most of us would not ask... don't get mad with her for having a voice, you must realize like myself there are many here who are not greek and anything you say will have an adverse view on not only yourself, but the organization you choose to represent. Now the facts remain the same, if you want to change MIP, go to your respective orgs and legislate... I personally don't feel its right for any member of a greek org to discriminate on a bro/sis who just happens to come in with a process that your org implemented. But would you say I am overstepping my bounds with that statement because I am not greek? To each his/her own, but it makes common sense to me. A blessed day to all and keep the peace...

Miss Diva, I believe I made it quite clear that it wasn't Blonde1's ideas/thoughts/views that I had a problem with...it was the manner in which she/he chose to express her/himself...and YES, I did find her pompous and rude, and I expressed that to her/him personally. We had a few curt words, we laughed a little, we moved on. I suggest everyone do the same. I understand YOU don't have a problem with what she said or how she said it, but I did. We all have an opinion, which is what keeps these topics interesting. For the record, I represent Mocha and no one else.
You also have a pleasant day.

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).]

[Sexy Mocha]

Blonde1, I apolgize for referring to you as him/her, but it just dawned on me ...I don't know if you're male or female.

BTW, LOL at your last post!

[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).]

[ManndingoNUPE]

We all have different opinions. I have learned that this is one subject where for most people, there is no middle ground. I don't seek to change anyone's opinion, becuase like I said, most folks already have thier minds made up on this. I do think however that we can all agree to disagree.

I will say that if you hate the system, work to try to change it. It's easy as hell to sit on your duff, and complain, but when it comes time to put forth some action some of the same folks that bitch the most are no where to be found. Thats just my take, and I wish every one a wonderfull day.

Peace and luv to all

MN

[1Blonde]

I am a she. WIth a kickin yellow 'fro.

[Sexy Mocha]

Originally posted by 1Blonde:
I am a she. WIth a kickin yellow 'fro.

A kickin' yellow 'fro???
Well......you go 'head with yo bad, pompous ass!

Sorry, I just had to slip the pompous thing in there...you know...for old times sake

[ahhkbah]

Whut's up peoples. I believe that if you truly love your org. you will love your brother/sister regardless of their status. If you love your organization, take pride in its rituals, and work to uphold its goals...then you will love your brother/sister regardless. If you disrespect them in person or in post; than you are disrespecting your organization and showing yourself to be a member of much work. I say much work because we should all be striving to be better members every day. Just a sidebar to BGLO members, some people who pledged above ground neither respect nor recognize any individual that is a product of an underground process. And before someone asks, yes I am a member of a BGLO.

[Ice Cold Kreator]

I was going to stay away from this topic but I find myself being beckoned to answer the clarion call.

1. Black Greeks need to just be honest: while we say MIP, we don't really beleive in that...and those who come in through that process have less respect...and are not treated very brotherly/sisterly! (Its a SAD fact)...I would go as far to say that most brothers who people who pledge Grad Chapters are straight hated on (b/c its assumed that they didn't really pledge)!

2. While MIP isn't perfect, it doesn't kill anybody...and there are plenty of horror stories about people dying or being scarred for life in ALL organizations. YOU should not go to the hospital while your on line...thats BULL@#$%!!! That isn't pledging, thats an ASS whuppin'...and college graduates and students look like some thug gang when they do and submit to such.

3. I am embrace folks who come into the frat by any means necessary...some of the nicest and most fraternal brothers are those WHO DIDN'T Pledge...And, contrary to popular opinion, they too will wake up and do whatever for you...!!! I've seen it happen.
If you've seen the Light of ALPHA...you are an ALPHA...I just wish everybody saw it that way. On the otherhand, there is something to be said about a brother who PLEDGED...b/c they take their commitment to the frat seriously...but neither process guarantees a committed brother!

4. I don't think Blonde1 is out of line, The reason that we don't attract the same type of people we used to attract in our orgs. is because people feel as though we are frivolous. These questions need to be addressed...we are all to quick to call someone paper, but not ready to answer the questions about it. Many of my friends who aren't greek...but who are tight (and should be) question how I could get my ass beat to be call brother. So, just answer the questions and be honest...but just know that somewhere some Neo is reading or listening to you old heads and trying to figure out what is correct!

Some will say that my vote in favor of MIP means that I'm probably paper....Let Me STOP you!!! Started Pledging Undergrad, crossed grad....done and seen both processes in action...(some will say that's too much info...but I'm proud of the way I came through)...I came through!!!!

I hope more come through...who TASTE and FEEL there respective orgs.

Much love,

O6,

Ice Cold Kreator

[Sexy Mocha]

Originally posted by Ice Cold Kreator:
4. I don't think Blonde1 is out of line

Ice Cold Kreator[/B]

Because I am the only one who said she was out of line, I will say this once more....
It was not WHAT she said OR the specific questions she raised.....IT WAS THE RUDE AND DISRESPECTFUL WAY IN WHICH SHE SAID IT!

I thought she was arrogant...I addressed her. For those of you who found nothing wrong with her comments, then fine...I'm happy for you... but that doesn't, in the slightest bit, change the way I feel about it.



[This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).]

[Diva_56]

Ms. Mocha your point is taken well...
for the diva will allways speak for herself...



------------------
In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you

Janet Jackson

[Sexy Mocha]

Miss Diva! I just realized we have more in common than I thought! Your point is well taken as well!

Forgot password...need to go...typing frantically...so:

I'm appreciative that so many of you have come to my defense, but I challenged 7BA94 just as vigorously as Mocha challenged me. If you'd single her out, single me out as well, and be prepared to comprise a lengthy list of likewise offenders. My feeling is no blood, no foul. It's a good discussion, so let's not get bogged down in exchanging niceities and continue to talk.

[IotaNet]

To all of those who say that National Officers need to read these boards, let me say that here is one who is reading them. I am the National Executive Director for the Iota Phi Theta Fraternity, Inc.

I will start by saying that I have been a member of Iota for 20 years and I pledged for 6 weeks. I also happen to be a 21-year member of Kappa Kappa Psi Band fraternity… which I pledged for 7 weeks … at an HBCU. I have seen (and participated in) all kinds of processes. And based on all of that, I will offer some comments.

First of all, the popular myth is that MIP is the cause of pledging going “underground.” The corollary myth is that if we went back to a pledge process that resembled what was happening when I was an undergrad, the underground stuff would go away. Wrong! There has always been underground activity – and it was just as bad, just as brutal (if not moreso!) than it is now. MIP is not the problem. The problem is (and has always been) people who put their own selfish wants and desires above those of the whole.

Every member of any Greek Letter Organization took a solemn oath to be truthful to, and supportive of his or her organization. They also took an oath to follow the rules, regulations and laws of their organization. Not just the rules they LIKE … not just the rules that are CONVENIENT … all of them. As an Iota pledgee, I was taught that to break the rules was to dishonor the fraternity and all it stood for. Based on that, I find it perverse that people would say that they love the organization on one hand but in their expression of that love, they defile the organization by breaking the rules by hazing.

And speaking of hazing, there are two important facts that get lost in this discussion. A lot of folks think that if we went back to a sanitized version of pre 1990’s pledging that everything would be just fine. Not so for 2 reasons:

1) The definition of hazing has changed. “Back in the day”, the things that were done (e.g. walking in line, carrying bricks, etc.) were not called hazing – they were just “what was done.” Today however, these acts are illegal. And not illegal just per campus rules & regulations but per state and local LAWS. Back in the day, the police didn’t care … today, these things are crimes and are punishable as such!

2) In the past 15 years, we have become a far more litigious society. The things that used to be forgiven & forgotten will now land your behind in civil court … facing judgments of millions of dollars! Does anyone’s organization have the funds and resources to withstand such? I know that mine does not.

The bottom line here is that there has always been a fine line between pledging and hazing (it has gotten much finer with time). The people who have been tasked with the responsibility of leading our organizations have decided that they are unwilling to bet their organizations’ future on the judgment of a 19-year old to know the difference.

There are those who have said that MIP was rammed down the throats of undergraduate members. I will agree that in some cases it was. (Thankfully, in Iota Phi Theta, it was not. There was much internal dialogue before we adopted MIP. And this was BEFORE our membership in the NPHC was granted and before the NPHC organizations, at the time, did so.)

Be that as it may, one simply cannot blow off the rules because one does not like them. That’s anarchy … and its also counter to everything one is ever taught about Brotherhood. One of the primary reasons for pledging was to learn to be a part of a team and subject to the penalties and benefits of the whole. To blatantly ignore the law of the land is tantamount to saying “I don’t care about Brotherhood – I want it MY way.”

And speaking of “MY way”, how can you deny the bond of Brotherhood to a person who chose to do what they were told the “law of the land” was? How can you look down upon someone who “did the right thing” just because you want to “do the wrong thing?” (And oh, by the way, “The Right Thing” is defined by the rules of your organization – not what you want to do.)

I have a lot more to say on this topic but I think this is enough for now. I invite all replies, rebuttals, and comments.

------------------

[ZChi4Life]

To IotaNet:
All I can say is Bravo! Bravo! Tell it like it is!