Wacky Article about Underground LCA chapter - Page 4

GammaZeta · #46 03-31-2005, 07:04 PM

Why doesn't HQ try to turn them into official chapters? Like I said before, it is more than likely because of something that happened 5 or 10 years prior. HQ holds grudges for a long time and it is usually innocent brothers that end up paying the price years down the road.

If HQ did turn them into chapters, they would get $$$, could regulate them, and they would then be insured.

lenoxxx · #47 03-31-2005, 08:27 PM

#1- to Lifesaver, the underground chapter is primarily a northeast phenomenom, in my dealings with people outside my immediate area (PA) they dont even know what I am talking about, poorly run college greek systems and incompetant (sp?) greek advisors and up tight law enforcement has led to many chapters getting tossed, but since the colleges did little or nothing for them anyway, they can go right on operating. The SRU LCA chapter is probably having a better fraternity experience off campus than they did on campus in their eyes.

#2- To GammaZ- too bad we arent TKE or Sigma Tau Gamma, they had underground chapters at Shippensburg and just like you said they just re-recognized them after 10 and 4 years as underground chapters to "new colonies" respectively. Shippensburg is a state university just like Slippery Rock. It can be done, LCA isnt into bending the rules like those two fraternities are, otherwise we'd probably give SRU's chapter an award for perserverance. Personally I side more with them, it gets rid of long term problems. However LCA is very conservative and is probably afraid of some other legal problem it might cause somehow, it's just how they operate.

#3- To Mooch, I agree alot of this aggressive expansion is a bit weak, Kappa Sigma just recolonized at Shippensburg with the new wave of expansions from Kappa Sigma. From what I understand it is a everyone take a bid so we can be the largest fraternity kind of deal. They will most likely fall back to a modest to small chapter once the novelty and support goes away, along with having to actually do something to get letters. Phi Delt at Ship went through the same kind of hype/ fall off from 1999-2002 at Shippensburg

Hope it helps

Lenoxxx

PS- with LCA's website you can download most if not all pertinant officer manuals (except ritual) and you can buy pins and paedagoguses on ebay weekly. While they may lack the official stamp of approval you can do what they are doing and it would appear we (the official LCA world) cant do much about it.

GammaZeta · #48 03-31-2005, 11:52 PM

Good post Leno.

Yes, underground chapters are very common here in the northeast, primarily for a couple reasons. The schools here are older than most throughout the nation. We have alot of prestigious universities like Yale and Harvard which have underground societies (like the skull and bones). With the old/prestigious colleges there is alot of legacy in one's family with fraternities/societies. Alot of major universities/colleges at one time banned fraternities and sororities, like Harvard and Amherst College.

For instance, there are alot of underground fraternities at Amherst College, although disorganized and not really well respected, they are there. Amherst College used to have an amazing Greek system. They used to command HUGE mansions in the middle of Amherst in probably the most prime real estate available. If you ever go to Amherst, check them out near the town common, the old fraternity houses are simply AMAZING. Now they are just student dorms. Amherst College kicked fraternities out and banned them a while ago, like 30-50 years ago. Also Boston University banned Greeks for a while if I recall, Eric B., can you confirm this? Harvard also banned greeks. Now at Harvard, instead of a fraternity, something like the Astronomy club would be the equivalent.

I also thing that there are more underground fraternities in the northeast simply because of the number of colleges we have.

RACooper · #49 03-31-2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GammaZeta
For instance, there are alot of underground fraternities at Amherst College, although disorganized and not really well respected, they are there. Amherst College used to have an amazing Greek system. They used to command HUGE mansions in the middle of Amherst in probably the most prime real estate available. If you ever go to Amherst, check them out near the town common, the old fraternity houses are simply AMAZING. Now they are just student dorms. Amherst College kicked fraternities out and banned them a while ago, like 30-50 years ago. Also Boston University banned Greeks for a while if I recall, Eric B., can you confirm this? Harvard also banned greeks. Now at Harvard, instead of a fraternity, something like the Astronomy club would be the equivalent.

Now where the GLOs banned or was school recognition withdrawn?

It makes a big difference to IHQ I'd think... and of course when and why... for example is true that if recognition is withdrawn by a school that pretty much gaurentees IHQ will pull the charter?

GammaZeta · #50 04-01-2005, 12:12 AM

I think that Amherst College themselves banned the entire greek system. I didn't mean that we ever had a LXA chapter there (did we? I'm almost 100% sure we didn't). I just wanted to use Amherst College as an example of a thriving, totally underground greek system.

GammaZeta · #51 04-01-2005, 12:17 AM

Forgot to add something:

"is true that if recognition is withdrawn by a school that pretty much gaurentees IHQ will pull the charter?"

I know at Umass we had a national fraternity start a new chapter which was recognized by their nationals before they were officially voted into the Umass greek system and recognized. So I guess that a national could in theory recognize a chapter without the university or college doing so.

I mean, legally I don't think a university could stop a fraternity from recognizing one of it's own chapters. The only thing I guess they could do is not recognize the chapter as part of the school's greek system.

RACooper · #52 04-01-2005, 12:47 AM

Actually I was looking at it from IHQ's perspective - so will they still recognize a chapter currently if the school pulls recognition for that chapter - or - the greek system?

GammaZeta · #53 04-01-2005, 12:55 AM

Hmmm, interesting. I don't know. That is a good question. If a school does disband the greek system, can a chartered LXA chapter still exist at that school?

RACooper · #54 04-01-2005, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GammaZeta
Hmmm, interesting. I don't know. That is a good question. If a school does disband the greek system, can a chartered LXA chapter still exist at that school?

I do now that in the past IHQ would still recognize the chapter - or the UofT chapter wouldn't exist - but I was wonder what the current policy is... considering all the talk I have heard about only going to schools where LCA was invited - which to me implies that they would a) recognize the underground chapters unless the school recognized them; b) a desire to be firmly "above the table" when dealing with chapters and/or schools where recognition is an issue.

Tom Earp · #55 04-01-2005, 01:15 AM

Maybe LXA is or percieved to be on the conservative side, but, remember, We are one of the Largest International Fraternitys. There are many who are not.

Maybe many are not aware of the fact that LXA is on a Growth structure.

It is supposed to be a two pronged attack, New and Old being recolonized.

As far as Gamma Zeta is concerned, there was an effort my IHQ and some of the Brothers at G A to make the young men from the Local to feel welcome and try to keep in touch with them.

Lenoxxx and I discussed this under ground situation several times, and it is hard for many of us to fathom it. We are not used to it.

SRU situation is a sticky situation and it may behoove IHQ to sit down and talk with them and the College.

It is not My call or any others. We all want the best for LXA and the growth of LXA.

LXA does feel, that if We are not wanted by a College, then why do battle when there are so many other Colleges availabe to Colonize in and at. We did not get accepted at Duke. But DTD and one other did. Posted on GC in Greek Life.

It is funny, when I heard of a Colony at UIW, I said this was crazy. Today, they are a New Zeta and doing well.

So, I am in Hopes that the old days are in full gear with expansion, but with some reservations on where to go and if it will work for the long run.

Ask Ottar and lenoxxx, they can fill you in on Phi Tau. Today, they are the strongest Fraternity on Campus.

We all go through tough times.

LXAAlum · #56 04-01-2005, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
Actually I was looking at it from IHQ's perspective - so will they still recognize a chapter currently if the school pulls recognition for that chapter - or - the greek system?

If the school pulls recognition, it is pretty standard for LXA to pull the charter. I haven't heard otherwise.

There are other GLO's, such as Sigma Pi, that won't necessarily pull a charter if the school pulls recognition. It happened at Northern Colorado in the late 80's early 90's for Sigma Pi.

lifesaver · #57 04-01-2005, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GammaZeta
Hmmm, interesting. I don't know. That is a good question. If a school does disband the greek system, can a chartered LXA chapter still exist at that school?

Nope.

See: Alfred University and the Lambda Chi Chapter there, 2002/2003

RACooper · #58 04-01-2005, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LXAAlum
If the school pulls recognition, it is pretty standard for LXA to pull the charter. I haven't heard otherwise.

There are other GLO's, such as Sigma Pi, that won't necessarily pull a charter if the school pulls recognition. It happened at Northern Colorado in the late 80's early 90's for Sigma Pi.

I understand if the school revokes it's recognition of a individual chapter - but what if the school revokes recognition for the entire greek system? Not disbands it or bans it - but says they no longer recognize GLOs as a part of the school community...

I'd like to try and understand IHQ's position on lack or official recognition of GLOs by schools - because 90% of any expansion or recolonization would run into that issue up here... while only one school has banned GLOs (Queen's University), almost all others don't grant official sanction or recognition (except BC, Calgary, and WLU).

LXAAlum · #59 04-01-2005, 11:36 AM

Like lifesaver said...nope. Alfred U pulled all greek recognition. LXA had an outstanding chapter there, and I think at GA we tried to keep it open, but it was for naught.

KSZ1352 · #60 04-01-2005, 05:34 PM

In the case of Alfred U, from what I remember, the school not only disbanded the system, but also told us that students could be suspended if they joined.... We would have kept it going if it didn't mean getting kicked out of school....
If any of the other alfred guys are on here I am sure they can give you a better synopsis than me.