Dear Abby today - Page 4

texas*princess · #46 11-30-2004, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
Agreed. But you don't know if they will. So you need to look out for yourself. I'm not by any means saying anyone deserves it or asks for it - I'm saying be prudent and don't put yourself in that situation.

I definitely agree.

Self-responsibility and looking out for yourself is critical in today's world. I think this also ties in with many situations like the unfortunate situation with Sam Spady. Even though we are fortunate enough to have brothers and sisters or even just friends to go out with, we can't entirely rely on them to look out for us every single second. We need to look out for ourselves sometimes too.

SirHornyToad · #47 11-30-2004, 01:23 PM

first off props to dekeguy's sister.

Secondly, Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, nuff said.

third, if I'm even considering hooking up with a girl i would probably ask her how old she is in casual conversation and probably through the course of the night figure out who/how she ended up there. At least for us the way it works is at a big party we have someone carding college ID's at the door, and kickbacks we usually know people as they come in so if a friend brought someone we would pretty easily figure out all we need to know about them.

Fourth, was she there solo? if not where were her friends? we all know how girls like to take care of each other at parties, which is a great thing and probably prevents more rapes then we know.

Five, still not going to back down that she's crazy/emotionally unstable, because there are just too many people in this world trying to pull a fast one

six, that letter is as fake as an after school special.

seven, i forgot to mention this earlier, but whoever it was who had that line, she said no but how many things had she said yes to already, props to that.

valkyrie · #48 11-30-2004, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirHornyToad
Five, still not going to back down that she's crazy/emotionally unstable, because there are just too many people in this world trying to pull a fast one

You're crazy and emotionally unstable.

Of course I don't know if that's true or not, but I have as much of a basis for saying it about you as you have for saying it about this girl you've never even met.

Little E · #49 11-30-2004, 01:47 PM

(Who cares if it is real or not 33girl is right, these are always made up.)

I don't really think anyone implied that the girl has no responsibility. Women have to be careful, but at the same time. But the attitude that SirHornyToad has is also irresponsible and disgusting. Drunk people cannot consent, and while she should not have put her self in that situation, we don't know what kind of situations lead up to her being in that room. Yes she has responsibility, but so does the guy. Just because woman does something stupid it does justify rape. Nothing does.

btw: fraternity parties are not hard to sneak into, and women can actually lie about their age...rare, but possible.

SirHornyToad · #50 11-30-2004, 01:48 PM

with this week and next week being deemed "project/presentation" week at my college and the week after that being finals, I may very well be crazy or emotionally unstable at this point in time!

allow me to edit that

"Five, still not going to back down that she may be crazy/emotionally unstable, because there are just too many people in this world trying to pull a fast one"

James · #51 11-30-2004, 01:54 PM

How come drunk men are allowed to give consent? I am sure there are definitely consenting women that men have had sex with drunk that they never would have had sex with sober . . . is is rape if the men wake up horrified in the morning?

Quote:

Originally posted by Little E
(Who cares if it is real or not 33girl is right, these are always made up.)

I don't really think anyone implied that the girl has no responsibility. Women have to be careful, but at the same time. But the attitude that SirHornyToad has is also irresponsible and disgusting. Drunk people cannot consent, and while she should not have put her self in that situation, we don't know what kind of situations lead up to her being in that room. Yes she has responsibility, but so does the guy. Just because woman does something stupid it does justify rape. Nothing does.

btw: fraternity parties are not hard to sneak into, and women can actually lie about their age...rare, but possible.

SirHornyToad · #52 11-30-2004, 01:54 PM

our's are hard to sneak into, one entrance is blocked off and gaurded, another is blocked by a table and someone checking ID's/taking money and another guy stamping people.

And if you had actually taken the time to read any of my arguements you wouldn't call them irresponsible or disgusting. I never said she "wasn't " raped or that if she was raped the guy had any right to do anything. What i am saying is that it is possible that she wasnt and that we don't know the entire story, and therefore it is wrong to demonize the guy and sympathize with the girl when we don't even know for sure what the hell happened.

I'm saying that guys should be more responsible and not get themselves involved with little girls and No definently does mean no, there is no debate about that.

I've dealt with my fair share of situations that have dealt with rape, date rape, etc and it really is a topic i disgust and an act that i completely hate when other guys commit it, BUT I would never pass judgment, even on a fictional guy in a dear abby letter before i knew what the hell was going on.

sugar and spice · #53 11-30-2004, 01:55 PM

Okay, am I wrong, or did the letter say that this girl knew the guy in question? It sounds to me like they were already friends. If so -- I know that I wouldn't have MY guard up in that case. My little sister doesn't go to frat parties, but if she did and she was invited there by a friend, I would definitely tell her to be careful and watch her stuff and NOT go upstairs with guys she didn't know -- but I wouldn't be all that worried about her going upstairs to a guy's room if they're friends. Who would suspect that your FRIEND is going to rape you? I wouldn't.

Furthermore, if they were friends he probably knew she was 16.

The personal responsibility argument is hardly valid. I mean, yes, you want to take care of yourself -- but if you aren't and you get raped, it's STILL not your fault. We don't hold people who get robbed accountable for the crime because they were walking home alone one evening. We don't hold people accountable for getting hitting by cars just because they chose to cross the street. Why is rape different?

Regardless of whether or not this letter is real, it happens. Do you want me to whip out the examples of sisters and friends I have who've been raped, some of them by fraternity men who decided it was consentual? Because I can do that if Dear Abby isn't enough for you.

SirHornyToad · #54 11-30-2004, 01:56 PM

No james it's not, because aparantly all men are pigs who are just horny and want to get thier rocks off, beer goggles be damned, infact the man probably raped those girls too because we all know that men can't be raped but girls can...

*ducks and covers from the feminist onslaught that is going to ensue*

***Disclaimer***

Ok this post was mostly sarcasm, please don't stone me to death

Nikki_DZ · #55 11-30-2004, 02:00 PM

Oh Noes, the feminists!1!1!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

SirHornyToad · #56 11-30-2004, 02:01 PM

S&S
It shouldnt surprise you that they were friends, thing's like that happen, its called Date Rape.

And of course you have instances where things happen, you also have the facts about those instances, I could pull out some myself, i can't tell you how many of my lady friends i've saved. And how bad i felt for the ones I couldnt.

Here's one, I passed out at a friends house drunk, woke up to a gay guy messing with me, which i won't get into detail. I was jacktarded drunk and had to go to therapy afterwards, I was raped, I empathize.

but at the same time i'd like to play devils advocate enough that maybe people wont indiscriminantly judge guys without knowing the facts, and realize that this system is by no means fair, and that men and women both need to be responsible.

Rudey · #57 11-30-2004, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AGDee

ETA: I found a list of legal age of consent and am SHOCKED that it is 16 in many states (but not in Virginia, where this letter was from.. where it is 18)

16 AND drunk? Any college age man who touches a drunk 16 year old is a fool.

Why??!? In my junior high school there were hispanic girls dating guys in their 20s. I'm to believe an 18 year old (probably drunk) who touches a drunk 16 year old is a fool? How is he a fool?

You know what there is plenty of blame to go around and let's do that. Let's not sit there and say this blame is only for one person.

1) Blame the fraternity. Have them shut down for taking on the increased risk of bringing not just a minor into the house but also a high school minor and providing them alcohol on top of a party which may possibly be against the rules. Whether or not it was right doesn't matter and isn't the question. What matters is that the fraternity needs to think and realize what a risk they just took on and how it hurts their brothers.

2) Blame the brother who was with the girl ONLY if it can be proven that it was rape. Otherwise he gets no blame.

3) Blame the girl. You idiot girl. You went to a frat party. You wanted to be a little wild...be a little hooch...drink a little. You deserve blame for risking your own safety.

4) Blame the parents. You morons can't control your children.

There. Everyone got the blame and nobody got off easy. Of course this is all probably false and nobody gets the blame. Easy.

-Rudey

SirHornyToad · #58 11-30-2004, 02:06 PM

Rudey for president?

texas*princess · #59 11-30-2004, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirHornyToad
Rudey for president?

I second that

sugar and spice · #60 11-30-2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirHornyToad
S&S
It shouldnt surprise you that they were friends, thing's like that happen, its called Date Rape.

See, I don't know -- I guess I've never had a guy friend who disrespected me enough not to stop when I said no. If it's true that any guy out there is a potential date rapist, why should women be friends with men at all? We're friends with guys because we trust you not to pull shit like this. Obviously sometimes we guess wrong and place our trust where it shouldn't be put. Again, that's not the woman's fault. Bad judgment is not illegal. Raping someone is.

While I definitely feel for those who have had false allegations of rape thrown at them, the facts show that rape is far, far (possibly hundreds of times) more common than false allegations of rape, and that the vast majority of the time the allegations are true. That doesn't mean that we should immediately leap to the conclusion that the girl is always right, but it does mean that, in general, the girl's argument sounds pretty reasonable to me (unless she starts contradicting herself, etc., which hasn't happened in this letter).

I don't think that anybody in here is saying that the girl in the Dear Abby letter was absolutely one hundred percent positively raped. We were just saying that if the facts as presented in the letter were true, then she was raped. It would be up to the court to decide what actually happened.