Line Caps?

[Exquisite5]

Did anyone catch this part in the article:

"Membership intake activities must take place between Jan. 10 and Feb. 21. "

This is news to me! The school/Pan-hel dictates when intake takes place????? I was NPHC pres during my undergrad years and we would have never even presumed to try something like that! I don't even think A&M's NPC/IFC groups would have gone for that- and they accepted alot.

[AKA2D '91]

It is not unheard of. I'm not sure how the NPHC plays into it all, but the university CAN dictate the intake period.

Remember, organizations are "guests" if you will of the university. So, the university can say:

1. ALL intakes must take place by this date;
2. We don't want ANY greek letter organizations on our campus(es)...AT ALL!

ETA: When I was in school, you did not hear of such. However, in light of the "change of the times/behaviors" universities have decided to mandate time frames etc, to attempt to curtail certain activities.

[Happydaysf91]

A lot of schools had rules such as this. At Dillard, all fall lines must cross (complete) all activities before Thanksgiving. This rule was put in place so that the pledgees would have adequate time (without all the pressure) to study for finals.

These days, more and more...I'm hearing that a lot of schools require that 'intake' takes place early in the semester.

And as Soror AKA2d91 has stated, we are on the university's campus at their pleasure. Their rules trump any and everything.

[Exquisite5]

Wow!

It all makes sense, but I had no idea it had gotten that bad. I thought we had it rough at A&M, but clearly we had a lot more control than we knew. It probably has a lot to do with going to a white school, the administration was likely just happy that there were organizations geared toward Black students. A&M has a real problem with Black student retention, and its statistically proven that Black students who were involved were far more likely to not just matriculate, but graduate.

[AKA2D '91]

Texas A&M is NOT alone. Some PWIs have that problem. Our UG chapter has 3 members. I guess if the sorors wanted to have intake 2xs in one semester, they could.

That's too much work.

I don't think LSU really has the problem of retention.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Venus1908
I read the article about JSU line cap I believe that if 365 girls appliy and all are deserving then that next line should be called 365 D.A.Y.S. in a year, because they all should be whatever they applied for. Furthermore i did not like what frat had to say about the cap

"Bennie Crayton, a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, said the membership limit would not impact fraternities, but is a good idea for some sororities known for their large numbers.

"From a male standpoint, the cap has no bearing on us. It is good for females -- it will help them narrow things down," Crayton said. "It's not good to have large numbers. A group loses its luster with large numbers." - JSU Blue and White Flash.


I want to know where he gets the right to say this!!!!!

I just wanted to make sure I quoted this.

That is all.

ETA: Funny how a PERP would wonder where someone gets the right to say something. Where do YOU get the right to say HALF of what you've said on this board???

To my Soror IHPE, thank you!!

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Texas A&M is NOT alone. Some PWIs have that problem. Our UG chapter has 3 members. I guess if the sorors wanted to have intake 2xs in one semester, they could.

That's too much work.

I don't think LSU really has the problem of retention.

Our UG chapter had intake 2xs in 2004, but not in the same semester. At the beginning of 2004, there was one member, so two intakes were necessary. It is a heckuva lot of work.

I haven't studied black student retention at the three schools our UG chapter covers (San Diego State, UCSD, USD), but AfAm students at UCSD represent 1% of the total student population. Two of our UG chapter's neos showed me their 1% shirts, BTW.

[rho4life]

From my reading of the article, it was the NPHC that put the cap in place at a particular school. Who am I to argue with that from my comfy couch??? IF, the admin had set the quota on their own without any input from the students, then I would be a lot more concerned. My understanding of NPC quotas is that those numbers are created through a mathmatical formula, but it's agreed to by all of the member orgs on any given campus.

Also, regarding the dates, it seems like another shift towards the NPC model where there are common deadlines for "rush" [for lack of a better word] activities. I am a BIG fan of meet the greek events so that students can compare all the D9, however, the idea that our entire process would be regulated by the school is kind of .....oogy.

[AKA2D '91]

Don't always believe what you read. I'm sure the NPHC made the recommendation, but the "higher ups" more than likely had the FINAL say. Why wouldn't they? THEY are the ones getting paid, plus they are the administrators.

If the NPHC is "all that" then, I should be getting royalties as former rep to the pan as a UG.

LOL

[Senusret I]

Bumping.... this issue came up in conversation today and I wanted to put my two cents in the appropriate place.

I am against line caps. I have YET to hear of a good reason why a school would institute one. I feel that it interferes with an organization's right to determine its own membership.

Since when can/should non-members have a hand in determining the membership of a private organization in an arbitrary manner?

Higher GPAs for all Greeks? Sure.

Sophomore standing or greater? Sure.

Other requirements might also be acceptable -- maybe a student could lose the right to pledge if they had ever been placed on disciplinary suspension or probation.

But I fundamentally disagree with forcing a chapter to only take 40-60-75 if their interest is in the hundreds.

If someone that supports university-imposed line caps could help me understand this, I'd love it.

[SummerChild]

Maybe they have some sort of administrative or liability issue. Not sure.
For example, maybe some schools have to do processing before someone can submit themselves as a candidate for a sorority or fraternity. well if the "intake group" is hundreds then the candidate list would probably number well above that. it might be cumbersome for the school to handle.

Or maybe it's a liab issue. Maybe they have had problems when certain types of groups get too large ... any groups - maybe they'd have the same kind of cap for other orgs too - they just haven't been tested i guess. maybe they don't want that many of their students going through whatever process the sorority or fraternity has at that time. maybe they call themselves monitoring or something and they can only monitor so many. not sure but it might be some legitimate admin or liabl issue that doesn't really concern itself with just being in the business of the org. it might go for any org, it's just that no others probably test it out.

SC

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Bumping.... this issue came up in conversation today and I wanted to put my two cents in the appropriate place.

I am against line caps. I have YET to hear of a good reason why a school would institute one. I feel that it interferes with an organization's right to determine its own membership.

Since when can/should non-members have a hand in determining the membership of a private organization in an arbitrary manner?

Higher GPAs for all Greeks? Sure.

Sophomore standing or greater? Sure.

Other requirements might also be acceptable -- maybe a student could lose the right to pledge if they had ever been placed on disciplinary suspension or probation.

But I fundamentally disagree with forcing a chapter to only take 40-60-75 if their interest is in the hundreds.

If someone that supports university-imposed line caps could help me understand this, I'd love it.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

Maybe they have some sort of administrative or liability issue. Not sure.
For example, maybe some schools have to do processing before someone can submit themselves as a candidate for a sorority or fraternity. well if the "intake group" is hundreds then the candidate list would probably number well above that. it might be cumbersome for the school to handle.

Or maybe it's a liab issue. Maybe they have had problems when certain types of groups get too large ... any groups - maybe they'd have the same kind of cap for other orgs too - they just haven't been tested i guess. maybe they don't want that many of their students going through whatever process the sorority or fraternity has at that time. maybe they call themselves monitoring or something and they can only monitor so many. not sure but it might be some legitimate admin or liabl issue that doesn't really concern itself with just being in the business of the org. it might go for any org, it's just that no others probably test it out.

SC

I would consider the bolded to be a good reason -- thanks for submitting that!

For example, it might create a HUGE strain on the Registrar (grade verification), community service office (if there is one, for letters of recommendation), or other university office.

I didn't go to an HBCU, so I'm still learning.

[AKA_Monet]

At Spelman College, when I attended in the late 1980's, there were 300-400 girls showing up at Rush. All had the required documents. And there were interviews. There were no overrides by the graduate chapter or Regional Director and there was no legacy clause.

The GPA set by Spelman was 3.8 semester and 3.1 cumulative; first semester sophomore.

My line was huge. The line before me was rather large. And the ladies of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. Eta Kappa Chapter had a significant numbered line in 1988, too.

Do you all have any concept of what it was like to be on line and having to go to the cafeteria to eat the same food 3X per day at the same time as everyone else for a solid 2 weeks?

Nonmember students could not get into the cafeteria to eat anything. It wasn't about seconds, because, we barely consumed food for all the other stuff we had to do. But, the school was not equipped to handle when an organization, outside of the school's mission had this kind of undertaking.

Also, when there is huge line, those that invariably got left off that line complained to the school and to International HQ. We got it all the time... We got threats by mothers whose daughters failed to make it. We got questions from Regional Directors, we got threats of pulling the line and allowing skating, we got humiliated by non-greeks.

But, my line, no matter how large, did stick it all the way through the entire course. So, we were rather well-respected. My line may have gotten threats to be pulled, but, we did all that were were supposed to do without huge incident.

Best thing that ever happened to me.

Certain activities, like "real probating" could not be done. Mixed lines, like one from one school vs. another--we had ivies from Morris Brown stop by and give us a chant--outlawed now. Flow of traffic was stopped. Environmental concerns. Crowd control. Public Safety issues, etc.

I can see why they Universities want to limit the number. Do I think they should? I don't know? The reality is HBCU's would be asking organizations to have multiple intakes per year, which is too much to ask on the young people.

We can resort to outright private selection and invitations.

[Senusret I]

^^ Thanks for responding. You've helped me understand some of the pre-MIP logistics of it all.

Do you mind sharing how many of you there were?

[WenD08]

oh 1988...i remember RUNNING to Manley@Spelman to get in front of those "lines". i just knew there would be nothing left after the Ivies and Pyramids went throught the cafeteria
oh the memories