primarily southern sororities

[kateshort]

Originally posted by SoCalGirl
Personally, I'd argue the Mid Atlantic should be a 5th region. It would take care of some to those questionable states like MD, DE, and DC.

I totally agree! I grew up in Maryland, and never ever have considered myself southern. Mid-atlantic? Oh yeah! I'd put MD, DC, PA, DE, and maybe VA/WV in there.


Alpha Delta Pi currently has these collegiate chapters:

WEST = 16
CA 10, AZ 3, WA 2, NV 1
none in AK, HI, MT, WY, UT, CO, NM, OR, ID

MIDWEST = 32
OH 7, MO 6, IA 4, IL 4, IN 3, KS 2, MI 2, SD 1, NE 1, OK 1, WI 1
none in ND, MN

NORTHEAST = 12
PA 7, VT 1, MA 1, RI 1, CT 1, NY 1
none in ME, NH, NJ

SOUTH = 70
TX 10, TN 9, NC 9, GA 8, FL 7, SC 7, KY 5, AL 6, VA 3, MD 1, DC 1, WV 1, AR 1, LA 1, MS 1
none in DE

CANADA = 3
BC 1, MB 1, QB 1


I got a total of 133 active chapters. Is that right?

[KappaKittyCat]

Kappa Kappa Gamma- 130

SOUTH- 39 (30%)

Texas- 7
Virginia & Florida- 5
Georgia, North Carolina & South Carolina- 3
Kentucky, Alabama, Louisiana & Tennessee- 2
Arkansas, Mississippi, West Virginia, Maryland & District of Columbia- 1

MIDWEST- 36 (27.7%)

Ohio- 8
Indiana- 5
Illinois & Iowa- 4
Michigan, Oklahoma & Missouri- 3
Wisconsin & Kansas- 2
Nebraska & Minnesota- 1
North Dakota & South Dakota- 0

WEST- 30 (23%)

California- 13
Washington- 4
Colorado- 3
Oregon, Arizona & Idaho- 2
New Mexico, Utah, Montana & Wyoming- 1
Alaska, Hawaii & Nevada- 0

NORTHEAST- 21 (16.2%)

Pennsylvania- 9
New York- 5
Connecticut- 3
Massachusets- 2
New Hampshire & New Jersey- 1
Deleware, Maine & Vermont- 0

CANADA- 4 (3.1%)

Ontario- 2
British Columbia & Quebeq- 1
Alberta, Manitoba, Saskachewan, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Yukon, Northwestern & Newfoundland- 0

So the South wins for Kappa, but not by much. And I, of course, want more chapters in Wisconsin.

[maggieaxid]

Alpha Xi Delta is like this:

West- 12 Chapters
MidWest- 40 Chapters
NorthEast-18 Chapters
South- 38 Chapters

If you want to see how they are broken down by state go to www.alphaxidelta.org

[sugar and spice]

Tri Delta has:

(I can't believe I'm counting this! I have homework to do and stuff! Some of these might be a little off as Tri Delta's website lists both active and inactive chapters and I'm trying to only count the active ones . . . but sometimes I miss.)

WEST = 25
CA 12, AZ 2, WA 3, NV 1, WY 1, UT 1, CO 3, OR 1, ID 1
AK none, HI none, MT none, NM none

MIDWEST = 36
OH 6, MO 4, IA 4, IL 5, IN 5, KS 4, MI 1, NE 1, OK 3, WI 1, ND 1, MN 1
SD none

NORTHEAST = 18
PA 7, VT 1, MA 1, NY 6, NH 1, NJ 2
RI none, CT none, ME none

SOUTH = 53
TX 10, TN 3, NC 3, GA 4, FL 7, SC 5, KY 3, AL 3, VA 5, MD 1, AR 2, LA 2, MS 5
DC none, WV none, DE none

CANADA = 2
ON = 2

[xp2k]

According to these breakdowns...it would appear that almost every sorority is "southern".

I think the small fallacy/confounding variable (?) to this argument is that there are a lot of states that could be considered "southern" as oppossed to the states that we would place into other reasons. So...of course the south will have more chapters, becuase it has more states.

I think these #'s CAN show which sororities are concentrated in the south.

Alpha Delta Pi is an excellent example! (70 southern chapters).

There are so many different factors that would have to be taken into account to decide if a sorority is "southern" or not and even then...its still all so subjective!

I find these numbers really interesting though and I hope others post...fraternities too!

[Texas-Gal]

This is a very interesting discussion...

As a sorority alum (UTexas), my viewpoint of "Southern" sororities is skewed towards the more prominent/prestigious/old school (however you'd like to phrase it) Greek systems of the South - namely: LSU, Alabama, Ole Miss, and (of course) Texas. (although I'm not as familiar with their Greek systems, I'd also include Florida, Florida State, Georgia, and possibly Tennessee in that group) At those schools, I'd say these sororites were among the more prestigious groups - and therefore have a higher profile in the South:

Chi-O
KD
Kappa
Tri Delt

I guess maybe what I'm saying is that it's not just the sheer numbers of chapters that play into the perception of a sorority as "Southern" - but also the relative prestige/desirability of the chapters vis-a-vis the other houses, as well as their prominence at the major Southern University Greek systems. (e.g. if a sorority is prominent at LSU, Bama, & Ole Miss, I'd consider that more "Southern" than one that just had good chapters at Univ. North Texas, SFA and UT-Arlington) Does that make sense?

[GtownGirl98]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
Kappa Kappa Gamma- 130

SOUTH- 39 (30%)

Texas- 7
Virginia & Florida- 5
Georgia, North Carolina & South Carolina- 3
Kentucky, Alabama, Louisiana & Tennessee- 2
Arkansas, Mississippi, West Virginia, Maryland & District of Columbia- 1

MIDWEST- 36 (27.7%)

Ohio- 8
Indiana- 5
Illinois & Iowa- 4
Michigan, Oklahoma & Missouri- 3
Wisconsin & Kansas- 2
Nebraska & Minnesota- 1
North Dakota & South Dakota- 0

WEST- 30 (23%)

California- 13
Washington- 4
Colorado- 3
Oregon, Arizona & Idaho- 2
New Mexico, Utah, Montana & Wyoming- 1
Alaska, Hawaii & Nevada- 0

NORTHEAST- 21 (16.2%)

Pennsylvania- 9
New York- 5
Connecticut- 3
Massachusets- 2
New Hampshire & New Jersey- 1
Deleware, Maine & Vermont- 0

CANADA- 4 (3.1%)

Ontario- 2
British Columbia & Quebeq- 1
Alberta, Manitoba, Saskachewan, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Yukon, Northwestern & Newfoundland- 0

So the South wins for Kappa, but not by much. And I, of course, want more chapters in Wisconsin.

Help me out here and explain how you added your numbers together? I.e. in the south 7+5+3+2+1=18 not 39? I am just confused and could just not be seeing the addition correctly.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by GtownGirl98
Help me out here and explain how you added your numbers together? I.e. in the south 7+5+3+2+1=18 not 39? I am just confused and could just not be seeing the addition correctly.

She's saying that, for example, with Virginia and Florida, it's not that together they have 5 chapters -- each state has five separate chapters.

Originally posted by Texas-Gal
This is a very interesting discussion...

As a sorority alum (UTexas), my viewpoint of "Southern" sororities is skewed towards the more prominent/prestigious/old school (however you'd like to phrase it) Greek systems of the South - namely: LSU, Alabama, Ole Miss, and (of course) Texas. (although I'm not as familiar with their Greek systems, I'd also include Florida, Florida State, Georgia, and possibly Tennessee in that group) At those schools, I'd say these sororites were among the more prestigious groups - and therefore have a higher profile in the South:

Chi-O
KD
Kappa
Tri Delt

I guess maybe what I'm saying is that it's not just the sheer numbers of chapters that play into the perception of a sorority as "Southern" - but also the relative prestige/desirability of the chapters vis-a-vis the other houses, as well as their prominence at the major Southern University Greek systems. (e.g. if a sorority is prominent at LSU, Bama, & Ole Miss, I'd consider that more "Southern" than one that just had good chapters at Univ. North Texas, SFA and UT-Arlington) Does that make sense?

I definitely agree with you to an extent, but, as mentioned above, there are certain sororities that, while they are very strong in the South, are also often just as strong all over the country -- the four you mentioned, with especially Kappa and Chi O, being some of them. So while I would definitely see those as strong Southern sororities, they're definitely not "primarily" Southern sororities the way I would classify Phi Mu or ZTA.

[Texas-Gal]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I definitely agree with you to an extent, but, as mentioned above, there are certain sororities that, while they are very strong in the South, are also often just as strong all over the country -- the four you mentioned, with especially Kappa and Chi O, being some of them. So while I would definitely see those as strong Southern sororities, they're definitely not "primarily" Southern sororities the way I would classify Phi Mu or ZTA.

I can only give an opinion, from someone inside the South, of what WE consider to be "Southern" groups. It may be that someone from the NE or the Midwest would not look at them the same, but that's how we see it. For example, I would never have placed Zeta in the group of "Southern" sororities.

A sorority may be strong everywhere it has a presence, but still viewed by those within a region as having "the biggest" presence there. In reality, almost NO sorority could ever be viewed as regional if it is discounted from the analysis because it is also strong elsewhere. I never said these sororities were "primarily" Southern - only that they are the most "Southern" of the bunch.

All I can provide is a viewpoint shaped solely by experience with the major Greek systems of the South as to what we (I) would consider to be "Southern" groups. There can't be right or wrong answers on this question - just perceptions.

[sugar and spice]

See, that's the thing -- we're discussing two completely different subjects here.

What groups are strong in a given area and which groups are geographically concentrated in a given area might be two different things. Like you said, Kappa, KD, Chi O and Tri Delt are consider strong Southern sororities, but they're all geographically prevalent elsewhere. Sororities that are extremely common in the South, as compared to the Midwest, East or West, might be Phi Mu, ZTA, ADPi or AOPi, possibly KD . . . and the others listed in this thread.

The same goes for any other region. For example, I would say that (from what I've seen) in the Midwest, there are a lot of very strong chapters of Kappa, Theta, Alpha Phi, Pi Phi, Gamma Phi Beta and DG, among others. However, I can't think of any sororities that stand out as particularly geographically concentrated in the Midwest except maybe Theta Phi Alpha or ASA (somebody correct me if I'm wrong here).

If you look at ZTA in a Baird's manual it becomes immediately visible how "Southern-oriented" they are -- a huge percentage of their chapters were founded in the South. They may not necessarily be as strong as Kappa Kappa Gamma is at the big universities in the South, but by numbers alone they are more concentrated in the South than elsewhere. I think this was the original topic, not which sororities have strong chapters at the big Southern universities . . . although sometimes the two topics do overlap and intertwine quite a bit.

I could be wrong though . . . that's just what I'm getting from what the original poster wrote. We all sort of took it and ran with it.

[Texas-Gal]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I could be wrong though . . . that's just what I'm getting from what the original poster wrote. We all sort of took it and ran with it.

No - not at all! Like I said, there's no right or wrong on this - as there is no real "answer."

I was just rephrasing/restating the argument in my original post - which may or may not have directly addressed the exact question raised by the initial poster. Everyone seemed to be focusing on the numbers - how many chapters are in the South - and I felt that was a lopsided way of determining which sororities were "Southern." My whole argument IS that numbers alone don't paint the whole picture - whereas the line of posts seemed to assume that the numbers alone do represent the best indication of regionality. At bottom, I just can't see classifying sororities as "Southern" which might have sheer volume in the South, but not high levels of prestige across the most visible and established Greek systems. Just because the market is saturated with a particular group, doesn't mean that group is therefore the most representative of the region.

So maybe instead of asking which sororities are "Southern" the question should be narrowed to...

WHAT makes a sorority "Southern"? (or "Midwestern", etc.)

I agree that numbers have to be a part of it, I also think the founding and traditions/ritual play a role - but a lot of it comes from how that region views the sororities themselves. If Southerners themselves don't consider XYZ to be Southern, it would be hard to argue otherwise.

Whew! But, as always (and as has become obvious), everyone has different perceptions.

In any event - can you tell I'm a lawyer? I always enjoy discussing topics in-depth with this - just don't ever think I'm mad or anything... I'll insert one of those angry faces if I am!

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

I don't know -- I think it's true that there's more than one thing to consider when you're trying to figure out which sororities are the most "southern."

I also think it's clear there's a few sororities that keep coming to the forefront, regardless of percentage or regional views or whatever -- i.e. Zeta, ADPi, Phi Mu, KD, Kappa, Theta, Pi Phi, Tri Delt, Chi O, etc.

[sugar and spice]

I think we've gotten to a point where I can agree with you.

[Texas-Gal]

Originally posted by BrownEyedGirl
I totally agree with you and don't want you to misunderstand me.

I didn't disagree with a single word in your original post, so no worries there!

Obviously, back in the day (and I mean 150 years ago), ol' South Carolina WAS the South... led the charge and all. But nowadays, I almost think of the Carolinas, Virginia & Tennessee as a little group all their own - still South, though. Heck, I'm sure South Carolinians would be more than happy to stick with that group - and not get roped in to a group with a bunch of upstart citizens of the Republic of Texas... right? Or, for that matter, a bunch of crazy Cajuns!

[DZHBrown]

I agree that there should be a Mid-Atlantic region, but I'll follow the way everyone else had done it!

Total - 163 Chapters

WEST - 13 Chapters - 7%
WA 1, CA 8, NV 1, NM 1, CO 2

MID-WEST - 54 Chapters - 33%
NE 2, KS 1, OK 2, MN 2, IA 2, MO 8, WI 4, IL 9, MI 8, IN 5, OH 11

NORTHEAST - 31 Chapters - 19%
ME 1, NH 1, MA 2, RI 2, CT 2, NJ 3, NY 3, PA 17

SOUTH - 64 Chapters - 39%
MD 1, DC 1, KY 5, WV 5, VA 6, AR 4, TN 2, NC 10, SC 3, TX 10, LA 3, AL 6, GA 5, FL 3

CANADA - 1 Chapter - >1%

I could have swore we had more than 1 chapter in Canada. I guess it closed! So I suppose we are predominately Southern, but I consider us more Mid-Western.