AOII Eliminates Legacy Policy

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by carnation

It would seem that way but it's a kick in the teeth for moms who want to pin their daughters.

I think it's easier for legacies to pledge their moms' sororities in the NPHC. Today while out walking, I saw our Delta neighbor and I told her about all this and asked her what she would have done if she had pursued Delta (her mom's group too) for years and never been accepted. She looked confused and said that that never would've happened. She called her mother over and asked her if she'd ever heard of that happening to legacies in the local chapter. Her mother said, "No, not even with the girls who were odd as long as they did the correct work they needed to beforehand." (Ha! Mom is blunt. I can imagine the chapter conversations about someone's weird daughter.)

Two other ways the NPHC and the NPC differ: y'all have 4 sororities and we have 26. We have quotas and you don't (neither do NIC fraternities that I know of). Quotas, put in place so that some groups don't take all the top girls and leave other groups to waste away, are part of the reason that we can't pledge all legacies.

In my experience, I’ve seen legacies who have been denied for various reasons. It happened to friends of mine in both undergrad and Alumnae. I happen to know a couple of legacies who waited years before getting an opportunity, including two of my line sisters and a few ladies I helped to bring in my Alumnae chapter recently.

My organization does actually have limitations on how many can be brought in. At large schools, HBCU’s, and some Alumnae chapters, where 100’s of interests apply, a legacy can very well be denied because there simply are not enough spots. Unfortunately, this happened to my cousin a couple of years ago. She had a great resume, but the competition was massive. For some chapters, picking all the eligible legacies would eliminate any other qualified women.

It’s not that it’s something that doesn’t matter, but legacies have to research, get to know members in their chapter of interest, support programming, serve their communities and carry themselves well on campus or in the community, just like all other interests. My best friend didn’t tell anyone she was a legacy and the chapter was surprised when her mother showed up at initiation to pin her. Either way she was Delta material and that’ll always shine through! Membership is a privilege extended to each Soror on their merits.

[lake]

Originally Posted by carnation

I think it's easier for legacies to pledge their moms' sororities in the NPHC. Today while out walking, I saw our Delta neighbor and I told her about all this and asked her what she would have done if she had pursued Delta (her mom's group too) for years and never been accepted. She looked confused and said that that never would've happened.

Several years ago, didn't some women sue AKA because they weren't selected for membership, or am I imagining it? It was something about growing up as legacies and expecting to be automatically chosen. I thought I read it here on GC, but maybe not.

Anyway, carry on! 😀

[SweetHomeStL]

I have been reading all of the no-legacy threads and debating whether to respond, but I think it bears hearing. So here is a little of my Greek life story.

I was the first in my family to go to college and therefore the first to join a sorority. Note that this was pre-RFM days, so freshman year rush led to being cross cut and then pledging sophomore year, vowing to one day be the chapter’s Rush Chair to prevent other girls from being cross cut. The year I was elected Rush Chair, my biological sister (SIS) went through. I 100% let her choose her own sorority and was ecstatic that she chose to pledge mine! Her BFF pledge sister was eventually chapter President and we spent a happy 3-4 years together as National Officers.

Fast forward a few years and BFF was diagnosed with cancer. Dear SIS was with her until the very end. Fast forward 7 months and sweet niece (SN) was born and named after BFF. Fast forward 13 years and SIS unexpectedly passes away.

SN is now in high school and with zero prompting from me says she wants to attend her mom’s alma mater and to join her mom’s sorority as a way to feel connected to both her mom SIS and to BFF. Thankfully, this is not a crazy Southern recruitment and my chapter is a solid middle of the road group and will probably welcome SN with open arms. But if my GLO adopted one of these no-legacy policies & didn’t even give her the courtesy of a first round party invitation, I would be INCENSED!

No exaggeration, there will probably be 100+ rec letters sent to the house for SN from about 7 years worth of our chapter sisters, so SN will definitely be on their radar. But, I hope that this wave of inclusivity and diversity doesn’t stop our chapters from showing a little grace and kindness toward the families that have loved them for decades.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by AOII Rose

Actually, a few weeks ago thousands of AOII collegiate and alumnae members signed an AOII-member-organized and internally circulated petition asking AOII to do better with regard to diversity and inclusion. It was meant for AOII eyes only, so I am not comfortable speaking to any details.
.

Did this petition include mention of the legacy policy?

[SWTXBelle]

I'd be interested in seeing some actual numbers in terms of how many WOC are going through NPC recruitment, and how many are given a bid. I realize that may not be possible, but from my admittedly restricted view, the problem is more a case of getting WOC to go through recruitment rather than those who do not getting a bid. I am also aware that this will vary widely amongst campuses, but i would be very surprised if the issue is not more one of getting WOC to come through recruitment instead of those who do being denied a bid. Are those who are coming through dropping out/not getting a bid in higher numbers than traditional PNMs? Are we attracting WOC in the first place? If not, why not? I'd think exploring those questions should be the focus before deciding the best way to proceed.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I'd be interested in seeing some actual numbers in terms of how many WOC are going through NPC recruitment, and how many are given a bid. I realize that may not be possible, but from my admittedly restricted view, the problem is more a case of getting WOC to go through recruitment rather than those who do not getting a bid. I am also aware that this will vary widely amongst campuses, but i would be very surprised if the issue is not more one of getting WOC to come through recruitment instead of those who do being denied a bid. Are those who are coming through dropping out/not getting a bid in higher numbers than traditional PNMs? Are we attracting WOC in the first place? If not, why not? I'd think exploring those questions should be the focus before deciding the best way to proceed.

In our town, especially at the high school that all my kids attended, Asian and Hispanic women do rush and pledge NPCs regularly. I haven't known of a local black woman to rush an NPC in the last 20 years and like I said earlier, most of that is likely due to the community culture. The NPHC chapters here are very visible and do a huge amount of good work. Many women are legacies and they want to follow their relatives into the chapters. And also, the black high school teachers and administrators wear their para all the time and have their symbols all over their classrooms, offices, and cars.

I wish the NPC would be that visible.

[joliebelle]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I'd be interested in seeing some actual numbers in terms of how many WOC are going through NPC recruitment, and how many are given a bid. I realize that may not be possible, but from my admittedly restricted view, the problem is more a case of getting WOC to go through recruitment rather than those who do not getting a bid. I am also aware that this will vary widely amongst campuses, but i would be very surprised if the issue is not more one of getting WOC to come through recruitment instead of those who do being denied a bid. Are those who are coming through dropping out/not getting a bid in higher numbers than traditional PNMs? Are we attracting WOC in the first place? If not, why not? I'd think exploring those questions should be the focus before deciding the best way to proceed.

Both things need to happen. On certain campuses, BIPOC are not going through NPC recruitment, because they know they don't have a chance at getting a bid. These women can go through recruitment all day long, but when they are viewed differently during MS because of their race then they have no chance. A woman can be given a bid to a chapter, but then later resign her membership because of the unchecked microaggressions and out right racism in a chapter. The approach has to be two pronged--we (general NPC here) need to teach our members how to be anti-racist AND how to recognize the need for change with certain practices on their campuses.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I'd be interested in seeing some actual numbers in terms of how many WOC are going through NPC recruitment, and how many are given a bid. I realize that may not be possible, but from my admittedly restricted view, the problem is more a case of getting WOC to go through recruitment rather than those who do not getting a bid. I am also aware that this will vary widely amongst campuses, but i would be very surprised if the issue is not more one of getting WOC to come through recruitment instead of those who do being denied a bid. Are those who are coming through dropping out/not getting a bid in higher numbers than traditional PNMs? Are we attracting WOC in the first place? If not, why not? I'd think exploring those questions should be the focus before deciding the best way to proceed.

Thank you. I have often said that NPC needs to compile these numbers. Then we can have reliable information that we can use to affect change(if necessary) without emotional knee jerk reactions.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

Thank you. I have often said that NPC needs to compile these numbers. Then we can have reliable information that we can use to affect change(if necessary) without emotional knee jerk reactions.

Or "feel good" actions that do nothing to actually address the issues.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

Did this petition include mention of the legacy policy?

This. And was the general membership polled or did you cave to the demands of petition signers who might not have even been AOIIs?

[carnation]

I know many AOIIs, some whom I gave birth to, who knew nothing of this new policy until it was a done deal. These are women who stay in touch with the organization. Some have legacies yet to go to college. One is a chapter advisor.

Can we say "disenfranchised"?

One way to lose supporters quickly is to not involved all stakeholders.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by AOII Rose

Sure, AOII could have given members more of a heads up or officially involved the overall membership more in the writing of this policy. If my sisters are unhappy with this change in policy, I’d encourage them to make it known to AOII members and the fraternity. I believe that we can have a respectful discussion (from all sides) within our fraternity’s membership.

Anyone is certainly entitled to discuss their opinions, and it’s great that you (and I’m sure many others in this thread) know AOIIs. However, I don’t see the point of attempting to speculate on the collective will of a membership that one is not a part of. I would give your organizations the same respect. If you know an AOII who is unhappy, encourage her to approach her sisters about this.

You are kidding me. None of them think they will be listened to. And if AOII is going to put this divisive policy out there, they should expect that non-members will comment, just like they did against others. That's what people do on this site. I expect that they would jump on my sorority if they were to pull the same crap.

And not unexpectedly, I just now got a Facebook message from an AOII who asked me, 'Did you know that AOII dropped their legacy policy? I just now found out." I'm sure she feels like no one will listen to her now if no one contacted her in the first place.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by AOII Rose

Sure, AOII could have given members more of a heads up or officially involved the overall membership more in the writing of this policy. If my sisters are unhappy with this change in policy, I’d encourage them to make it known to AOII members and the fraternity. I believe that we can have a respectful discussion (from all sides) within our fraternity’s membership.

Anyone is certainly entitled to discuss their opinions, and it’s great that you (and I’m sure many others in this thread) know AOIIs. However, I don’t see the point of attempting to speculate on the collective will of a membership that one is not a part of. I would give your organizations the same respect. If you know an AOII who is unhappy, encourage her to approach her sisters about this.

Given the hostile treatment I've seen given to members of organizations who have disagreed with policy changes they had no "head's up" nor were they consulted about, I totally understand if they don't feel like their concerns are considered valid and they don't want to subject themselves to abuse. If their opinion wasn't taken into consideration before implementing the policy, why would it matter afterwards? Is there any chance the policy would be rescinded?

What one NPC group does may influence what others do, especially if it reaches the level of being considered for a Unanimous Agreement. As to speculating on collective will, refusal to enumerate how members were included can be expected to be interpreted as they were not. If AOII members tell us they were not consulted, they will be taken at their word. "Oooooo it's a secret" is fine and dandy, but optics matter.


* ETA - Note that I don't expect to know what is in the document - the issue is who was consulted.

If Gamma Phi were to do the same, I'd expect my panhellenic sisters to take notice, too.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by AOII Rose

Sure, AOII could have given members more of a heads up or officially involved the overall membership more in the writing of this policy. If my sisters are unhappy with this change in policy, I’d encourage them to make it known to AOII members and the fraternity. I believe that we can have a respectful discussion (from all sides) within our fraternity’s membership.

Anyone is certainly entitled to discuss their opinions, and it’s great that you (and I’m sure many others in this thread) know AOIIs. However, I don’t see the point of attempting to speculate on the collective will of a membership that one is not a part of. I would give your organizations the same respect. If you know an AOII who is unhappy, encourage her to approach her sisters about this.

Any "respectful discussion" ought to have occurred BEFORE such a measure was finalized. And as others have mentioned, optics matter.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Any "respectful discussion" ought to have occurred BEFORE such a measure was finalized. And as others have mentioned, optics matter.

Amen and Amen