NPC Rush - Can something be done to reduce/eradicate the number of "bidless" rushees?

[33girl]

God bless you AZ-AlphaXi and all you stand for. That would have made me nuts trying to think of it!!

[momoftwo]

Originally posted by AZ-AlphaXi
The following from the Purdue Greek Life web site seems to indicate that they are going to a split schedule..

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Women interested in sororities, note these important dates:
- Sept/Oct 2003: Register with Panhellenic and participate in various group meetings with a Greek Counselor
- November 9, 2003: Pre-Recruitment Convocation
- November 15-16, 2003: Open House Rounds
- January 8-10, 2004: Invitational Rounds
- January 11, 2004: Bid Day

When I went through rush at Purdue in the 70's, the recruitment schedule worked like the schedule outlined above. There also were "coke parties" (I think that's what they were called--it's been a long time) that took place between the open house rounds and the invitational rounds. The PNMs would meet a small group of sisters at the Union for a half hour or so at some mutually convenient time.

There was so much time between the first part of rush and the invitational rounds that I really lost interest in the whole process and didn't feel like coming back early from winter break to finish up. In retrospect, I wish I had, but that's water under the bridge...

[Angels&Arrows]

This might sound harsh... BUT...

Half the problem with rushees going bidless is the rushees themselves, the other half is the system...

First off, PNMs often drop-out or suicide if they do not like thier choices!!! 90% of the time if they stuck-it out through recruitment, then they would end-up with a bid to a house. However, if your choices are limited to a house(s) that you are not interested in or that you can not see yourself at.. then you should not pledge, it is not fair to the you or that chapter!!

Second, if there is a large percentage going bidless.. it is time to bring a new chapter on campus. Someone mentioned last night that VSU will not bring a new chapter on campus, until everyone is at total (5/6 chapters consistently make quota and are at total).... Let me just say, I doubt that one chapter will ever make quota or be at total. So let's just hurt 30%(+/-) PNMs going through recruitment each year? I do not get that... I am not saying it is right or wrong that the PNMs have no interest in the one or two houses on campus that are struggling... however, it is life..

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by Angels&Arrows
This might sound harsh... BUT...

Half the problem with rushees going bidless is the rushees themselves, the other half is the system...

I agree. In many cases, the schools with "cutthroat rush" are the ones where almost all the rushees going through have quite a bit of experience with Greek life and many of them have an idea of where they're going before rush even begins (i.e., "Even though we have twelve sororities, I will only accept a bid from Pi Phi, Tri Delt and Kappa"). It seems that some schools, for whatever reasons, attract a larger percentage of girls who have their minds made up before rush begins or who will only accept a bid from a couple of the campus's sororities. In that case, I don't feel sorry for the rushees who go bidless -- they put themselves in that situation.

However, if 90 percent of rushees all want the same three sororities, you have to start asking if there's a reason for that. Is it just that freshman superficiality of "I only want to be in the very top tier of sororities," or is it that the rest of the groups are just legitimately that much worse than the top three? If it's the latter, there is something seriously wrong with the Greek system. And ditto for the situations in which 9 out of 10 groups are making quota and the last group never will, yet Panhel refuses to allow expansion until the last group is full -- if you give them a year or two to shape up and they still can't, it's time to bring in another group.

[Lil' Hannah]

Someone had touched on this earlier, but I know a big problem at my old school was that the big houses that everyone wanted to be a part of often strung girls along when they knew very well they wouldn't bid them. For example, everyone wants to be in AB, CD, and EF. Of course not everyone can. But these houses still invite back the maximum number that they can, regardless if they plan on bidding them. So after the first round, the PNMs see that they're invited back to the bigger houses, and drop the smaller ones. Pref comes around and many girls either don't get invited to any pref parties or possibly get invited to one of their top houses and 2 small ones. Then they suicide the big house and don't get a bid. It doesn't happen to a huge number of girls, but there is a chunk of girls that end up bidless because of it.

[DWAlphaGam]

That would be my house (actually I was in 1 of the 2 groups on my campus that never made quota or total). I think it's completely WRONG to just say that the smaller house(s) will never make the numbers, so let's just give up on them and bring in a new group. Chances are, that new group won't help the situation AT ALL, because girls will still be superficial and want the top few houses. What's to say that the new group will do well, since they won't be established and they'll be starting from scratch? I doubt that the girls who drop out/single pref the top houses and end up going bidless would be interested in a new chapter because they're not interested in joining a smaller chapter that's already there and trying to help them improve their situation. Why take a chance on the no-name sorority? Introducing a new chapter will probably also kill the smaller group that has already been established on the campus for however-many years, and how fair is that?

As far as the idea of "give them a year or two to shape up," I can say from personal experience (and I'm sure that anyone else from a small/struggling chapter will tell you the same) that it's NOT THAT EASY. I think that a lot of the time, the small chapter is doing everything in their power to get back on their feet, and they're doing everything by the book, exactly how they're supposed to, but outside forces (i.e. stupid reputations and stereotypes) keep them from attaining their goals.


Ok, I'm going to refrain from writing more right now and sounding like an even bigger b!tch than I already do. I just hope that those of you nodding your head in agreement about expanding when not everyone is up to total will SERIOUSLY rethink your stance. (And I don't mean anything personally against Angels&Arrows or sugar and spice, but this issue just really ticks me off, so I'm sorry if it seems like I'm flaming you!)

[/rant]

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by DWAlphaGam
That would be my house (actually I was in 1 of the 2 groups on my campus that never made quota or total). I think it's completely WRONG to just say that the smaller house(s) will never make the numbers, so let's just give up on them and bring in a new group. Chances are, that new group won't help the situation AT ALL, because girls will still be superficial and want the top few houses. What's to say that the new group will do well, since they won't be established and they'll be starting from scratch? I doubt that the girls who drop out/single pref the top houses and end up going bidless would be interested in a new chapter because they're not interested in joining a smaller chapter that's already there and trying to help them improve their situation. Why take a chance on the no-name sorority? Introducing a new chapter will probably also kill the smaller group that has already been established on the campus for however-many years, and how fair is that?

As far as the idea of "give them a year or two to shape up," I can say from personal experience (and I'm sure that anyone else from a small/struggling chapter will tell you the same) that it's NOT THAT EASY. I think that a lot of the time, the small chapter is doing everything in their power to get back on their feet, and they're doing everything by the book, exactly how they're supposed to, but outside forces (i.e. stupid reputations and stereotypes) keep them from attaining their goals.


Ok, I'm going to refrain from writing more right now and sounding like an even bigger b!tch than I already do. I just hope that those of you nodding your head in agreement about expanding when not everyone is up to total will SERIOUSLY rethink your stance. (And I don't mean anything personally against Angels&Arrows or sugar and spice, but this issue just really ticks me off, so I'm sorry if it seems like I'm flaming you!)

[/rant]

I don't think you sound like a b*tch -- I know this is a subject that a lot of people are very passionate about because of their experiences. I'm sure there are a lot of other people out there who agree with you.

The problem is that on some campuses where reputation is very important and the top groups seem to remain the same for decade after decade, the sorority that is small because of a bad reputation will probably not be able to break from the cycle. Your point about rushees not wanting to take a chance on a no-name sorority is valid at some universities, but at other campuses where reputation is so important, if the rushees can't join an established "good rep" sorority, many would rather join a sorority that has no reputation, whose reputation they can help shape and mold, than a sorority with a bad one. At other schools where rep isn't such a big deal and the sororities seem to cycle through reputations (the group that was "the bottomfeeder" ten years ago is now the biggest on campus), the better solution is generally to wait it out and see if, in three or four years, they seem to be catching up with the rest of the groups and membership is stable at or near total pretty much across the board before expanding. Those are the schools where it's easier for the smaller sororities to pull themselves up and make it to total.

But there are some schools where it might be impossible for the smaller sororities to do that. For whatever reason (bad reputation, earned or unearned, they're bad rushers, the cycle of being the smallest group is impossible to break, whatever) they have been the smallest for years and can't seem to change that no matter what they do. And if the rest of the sororities at their school are at total, and many rushees are going bidless yet your sorority can't seem to make it to total no matter what, you have to start questioning if you're holding the system back by refusing to allow expansion. I know the NPC likes to worry about keeping the bonds of sisterhood intact and that is great . . . to an extent. But what about all the girls going bidless that are denied the experience of sisterhood because they don't fit in with your group, they were cut from other groups, and Panhel won't allow a new group on campus even though there's the need for one? In that case, it might (emphasis on might -- depending on your campus culture) be better for the Panhellenic system and your national organization to bring in a new sorority or reorganize/recolonize yours in a few years.

Like I said, this really does depend on the campus. And it's always sad when a chapter closes due to numbers. But sometimes we need to look at what's best for the system overall and Greek life in general rather than what's best for our chapter.

[33girl]

There are some chapters that are small because they haze, or they're all engaged in a variety of questionable activities, or they have no desire to do anything. If those die out, well, groovy-poo.

But there are times when the rushees come back from a party and say "I really liked XYZ, they seemed like nice girls and they all love their sorority so much. But I don't want to join there. They are too small and they have a reputation as the "unpopular" house."

I will paraphrase I believe KappaKittyCat, and say FU#$ING HELLO!! If you all join the small chapter, it won't BE small anymore!! If you are so friggin popular , join the unpopular house and change it.

Now I don't expect a bunch of freshmen women who don't know each other to get together like one of those Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland movies (hey kids, let's revitalize a sorority!). This is where the Panhellenic and Greek advisor should come in. Don't try to get the women to join by stealth means like not letting them drop the smaller group. That just makes people mad. Get the unbidded women together after recruitment and ask if they are interested in being part of a block class. It's easier to go out on a limb when you know there will be other people with you. Not only that, let campus leaders who maybe didn't go through rush know about this opportunity. Lots of women would love being Greek but they hate rush.

Oh, and I understand the concept of only wanting one sorority. I would never say go where you don't feel comfy. But if the only reason you want Gamma Phi is because they hang out with the Pi Kapps, or you want Theta Phi Alpha because they have the homecoming queen, well, you deserve to end up bidless...shallow beeyotch.

Edited to add partly in response to s & s's post, a lot of it also depends on the attitude of the sorority's national headquarters. If they are happy with the direction of the chapter, find positive things about them, don't mind that it is slightly smaller and accept that the group might never be on top that can go a long way. If the sisters feel that positivity from their higher-ups, they will be able to translate it into rushing. However, if they're doing nothing but hassling the sisters to improve numbers at any cost - even if it makes all the sisters miserable and desperate - they probably won't be able to crawl out of the hole. It's hard to be positive and upbeat in rush and tell women how wonderful your sorority experience is when you (metaphorically) have a gun at your back.

[AOIIalum]

Can something be done? Sure, lots of things probably can be done. I think the easiest thing is to follow NPC recommendations and use release figures! No, it won't solve all the problems of unbid rushees (and smaller chapters) but if all chapters followed release figures from day one of recruitment, it would help.

Say ABC and DEF have 90%+ return figures this year. Quota is 30, and there are 6 sororities on that campus. Return figures state they can invite 2.5 x quota back (and I'm just pulling that figure out of thin air, because I don't know what it is, just that there is a way to calculate release figures.) So, each should invite a max of 75 back, but ABC always invite back around 120 and have about 110 at their prefs (based on return figures). They don't want to risk not getting quota (although they've achieved quota for decades) so they ignore release figure recommendations. DEF invites 100 back, and 95 accept. So both sororities have two sets of jam packed Prefs. Reality is that only 30 girls will be bid at ABC and 30 at DEF. What happens to the rest of these girls? How many of them got bid? How many of them only went back to ABC and DEF? How many of them would have explored the other sororities if ABC and/or DEF would have released them earlier in the week?

I know this is not the case on every campus, but it does happen. And I'm sure there are campuses that use release figures across the board and there are still unbid PNMs and smaller chapter(s). I just think that this is another part of the problem, as well as a part of the solution.


Christin
(nah, I'm not passionate about this, am I?)

[KappaKittyCat]

33girl, woohoo! I've been quoted! I'm honored!

I agree with AOIIalum that release figures are crucial. Panhellenic needs to come up with some sort of sanctions for groups that do not adhere to release figures.

[Lil' Hannah]

Adding to AOIIAlum's post, when big, popular houses like this are ignoring release figures, it leads to quota plus, which hurts the smaller groups in the end. If a PNM is going to 3 pref parties at houses that will make quota regardless, she has to get a bid somewhere, so many of those houses end up with quota plus.

[DWAlphaGam]

Thanks, 33girl. You said it a lot better than me!

[ilovemyglo]

Well- since we don't know how many girls are invited to the bigger houses, or how what their # of returns are- Only our own house figures are given to us- how could we prove that they didn't go by release figures.
Our campus just tells each group how many girls to release
They go to XYZ and say- you have to release 200 or whatever. And down the line.

The problem at our school is there aren't enough girls during Pref for quota for all the houses, they set quota in the middle of the 2nd rounds. And the bigger houses don't have to do severe cuts till after 2nd rounds, so you get a lot of girls that dropped because they don't get invited back where they want to go.

Then they look at the smaller houses and say "well I don't just want to be a left over" and never experience greek life.
It is sad but true. Most of my sisters came through COB mainly because they were girls that never rushed and never thought they were sorority types. We are talking about beautiful, smart, fun women, that never thought they could be in a sorority.

The larger houses (minue one at my campus) helped sustain that attitude, too. They dropped all the girls that didn't seem to be the stereotypical sorority girl. It was really sad to see girls get so excited about these houses, get invited back 1st rounds and get dropped after 2nd rounds... so they weren't even able to return to the other 3 houses!!! It is really really sad.

I dont think there is an answer. I think every campus has the powerhouses and every campus has the smaller houses.
That is just that.

[Angels&Arrows]

Originally posted by DWAlphaGam
(And I don't mean anything personally against Angels&Arrows or sugar and spice, but this issue just really ticks me off, so I'm sorry if it seems like I'm flaming you!)

DWAlphaGam, I do not take people's opinions personally. As I hope you do not take mine as a personal attack on you, your chapter or your sisterhood.

I think we might need to agree to disagree! I understand your feelings. I do not think they are in the best interest of everyone. If a large percentage of PNMs go bidless and a campus will not allow another chapter to establish on campus, then you have lots of young ladies missing out on Greek Life. If a struggling chapter has truly tried to turn around and has been unsuccessful after several years, it takes a toll on the sisters. I can only imagine that turning around a chapter's perceived reputation is a full-time job, causing frustration and straining sisterhood (how is that good?). If the niche for that chapter is a small chapter is a better chapter... than great!!! That is definitely appealing to some PNMs. However, do not stop a new chapter from establishing when there is such a need.

Please understand, I am talking about the chapters on campus that have 25 members, when total is 100 or 45 members when the average chapter is 190. Not chapters with 30 members when total is 50, or 70 when total is 100.

The chapters at Ole Miss (after recruitment) range from about 150-225, that is a full pledge class difference and there are certain PNMs who would not dream of pledging the chapters closer to 150. However, that chapter of 150 has a lot to offer and is not having trouble financially.

When your numbers drop so low that you can not afford your housing or have to choose between certain campus events... that hurts your sisterhoood. In the late 90's there was a chapter that had to close due to numbers... financially they could not survive. There was a chapter at FSU a few years back that could only afford to participate in a few Greek Life events a year. They just did not have enough sisters to financially afford to participate in every event. In my eyes that hurts your members and the Greek system.

[shadokat]

While I respect your opinion DWAlphaGam, and I've been in your shoes, I disagree.

#1. You CAN turn a house around in a year or two if the situation is right. I know it's not always possible, but we did it at my school with my chapter, and went from 16 to 43 (total is 50 and nobody's there) in one year. How you ask? We found a whole lot of freshmen who wanted to start their own sorority and said, no need for that...we'll take all of you. They were an amazing group of women, all of them. Not one bad apple, and it has changed the entire landscape of the sorority life there.

#2. If a sorority system is growing and thriving, sans one group, and that group makes the effort to turn things around and are unsuccessful, bringing a new group in won't harm the system. You're right, it may be the cause of the closure of the small group, but unfortunately, most women going through recruitment hear the rumor mill and know the reputations associated with the smaller houses, whether they are true or not. They don't want to be a part of the sorority with the bad reputation, as I said, whether it's true or not. The stigma that follows chapters who get into numbers troubles is hard to shake unfortunately. Bringing a new group in without a reputation would be much more likely to succeed on a campus with limited spots.

I know how you feel DW, trust me I do. I just know that campuses that have chapters that aren't measuring up with the others are starting to think that they just have to cut their losses with the struggling group and start anew.

I don't know your chapter DW or your campus, and I don't know what your reputation is, etc. These are just my thoughts. I respect your hard work and determination to be successful.