Alfred University to Dissolve Greek System

[33girl]

dzrose - what madmax means, is in 2 years the chapter will be gone as far as having collegiate members and being part of the collegiate Greek community. Even if all the alums graduate and live there and the alum chapter is flourishing, what fraternity or sorority is going to want to hang out with a bunch of women who are all out of school?

Unless of course, DZ gives permission for them to do alum initiation with hordes o' collegiate members, in which case they might as well leave the collegiate charter there in the first place.

This kind of goes back to my "did you pledge cause of the national or local org" question. I would guess that if they do decide to go local, some girls will stay with DZ and some won't. It all depends who you feel bonded to the most.

[madmax]

Originally posted by dzrose93




The way I look at it, if you pledge Delta Zeta and really believe in the organization and love what it stands for, then you're not going to leave the sorority and form another group just because your university has decided to no longer recognize Greeks. Instead, you're going to find an alternative way to celebrate your DZ sisterhood -- and that doesn't mean jumping ship and forming a local when the going gets tough. The girls at Alfred U. can form an alumnae chapter or, like dzsaigirl mentioned, a chapter association and still function very well. Also, like dzsaigirl said, they can initiate women who they feel would make dedicated sisters as alumnae initiates into the sorority with National's permission.

The DZ chapter at Alfred is not jumping ship. It is the DZ national HQ that is pulling the plug on them.

Let me turn your loving the organization and what it stands for speech around. If your National HQ loves it's members and what they stand for, then why are they pulling the plug on a group of girls that has done nothing wrong?


If the current sisters start a local sorority, can't there still be an alumni chapter of DZ?

[KendraAKO722]

Originally posted by madmax




If the current sisters start a local sorority, can't there still be an alumni chapter of DZ?

It is my understanding that you can be a member of both a local and a national organization. I am a member of a local (at Alfred U.) and several of my sisters are also APO brothers. As long as the other organization is willing to take you given your other letters, theres no reason that they couldnt start a local chapter.

[madmax]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Ummmm, well, Max,

The way I read the articles and releases, the university isn't trying to do any of the things you address.

They're simply saying that the Greek System is no longer recognized by the university. In one article I read in Fraternal News (I think it was a NY Times article), it would appear that they're even considering how to deal with a situation where students would continue to live in their houses. They seem to be saying that if a student has spent his/her two required years in university housing, they can live anywhere they want with whomever they want.

Where did you hear that they will ban the wearing of letters? I didn't see that anywhere.

Deltalum.

The posts by KPU1190 and JennfierAKO710, both Alfred students. They both had questions as to the legality of Alfred preventing greeks from living in off campus homes that were owned by the chapters and KPU also mentioned wearing letters.

[DeltAlum]

Max,

OK, I went back and read their posts. What I think I saw were questions regarding speculation about what the university MIGHT do -- not what it says it is going to do.

You can disagree with what is speculated, I suppose, but until the university comes out and says, you can't live there, you can't wear letters, you can't talk to whomever, there really is no issue.

IF the university does what these two think they might, then there could be a problem. At this point, though, I don't see anything in the news releases from the administration or the newspaper coverage which indicate that any of these worries are going to happen. If they do, it's a different issue.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by madmax



The DZ chapter at Alfred is not jumping ship. It is the DZ national HQ that is pulling the plug on them.

Let me turn your loving the organization and what it stands for speech around. If your National HQ loves it's members and what they stand for, then why are they pulling the plug on a group of girls that has done nothing wrong?


If the current sisters start a local sorority, can't there still be an alumni chapter of DZ?

Think about this for a minute... Here you have a group of initiated Delta Zeta women who are no longer allowed to participate as a collegiate sorority chapter on their campus because their school administration has banned Greek Life. Now, let's say that the girls decide to start their own local group. Because it's local, NPC rules and regulations don't apply to it -- which means that alcohol and hazing policies don't apply to it. Which means that the girls have no one above them anymore to enforce the standards that Delta Zeta was founded upon, or to insure that they don't do anything that could cause harm to themselves or others during a local group event.

Delta Zeta Headquarters could be opening itself up to major liability issues -- not to mention potential negative publicity -- if these girls decided to do something that went against NPC, DZ, and/or Alfred University policy and HQ was still backing the girls as Delta Zetas. Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying that the girls WOULD do anything to hurt the organization, but the possibility is definitely there when no rules are in place.

Let's be very, very clear here. Delta Zeta is NOT pulling the plug on the girls at Alfred University. Alfred University administrators are pulling the plug, and unless the decision is overturned then Delta Zeta HQ has no choice but to respect the University's decision. I'm not saying that the University made the right call. Personally, I think the whole thing sucks, and I'm pretty outraged by the decision to remove the Greek system from campus. But, looking at it from a National standpoint instead of a personal one, I can definitely understand why Delta Zeta may close the chapter. I'm sure that National HQ is sick about the whole thing, but, really, what do you want them to do? The DZ girls at Alfred are being unfairly punished by the school, but they are NOT being punished by DZ.

At any rate, the whole alumnae vs. local issue is moot right now because I haven't heard what National is planning to do. I'm only going on what I know from other schools that have forced Greeks, including DZ's, off campus. Santa Clara University is one of them, and although some other groups are still functioning underground, the Delta Zeta chapter is not. The chapter was closed -- only 4 years after installation.

[dzandiloo]

Originally posted by madmax



The DZ chapter at Alfred is not jumping ship. It is the DZ national HQ that is pulling the plug on them.

Let me turn your loving the organization and what it stands for speech around. If your National HQ loves it's members and what they stand for, then why are they pulling the plug on a group of girls that has done nothing wrong?


If the current sisters start a local sorority, can't there still be an alumni chapter of DZ?

Let me make one thing clear here--this is all sheer speculation. No decision has been made by DZ HQ to "pull the plug" on this chapter...I'm not sure how this got started, other than the assumption that the SCU chapter was closed last year after that school decided to dissolve their Greek system.

Also, someone made the comment that DZ's constitution doesn't allow chapters at schools that do not recognize Greeks...I have not been able to confirm that--but if it is true (and that may be the reason the SCU chapter was closed) then there are sound reasons for that policy, and I really don't think it is necessary to make the assumption that somehow DZ's National council somehow loves this chapter less than any other, or imply that they will leave these young ladies flapping in the breeze without seriously evaluating the situation.

No, it is not their fault--they are victims of circumstance, and I can assure you that DZ is going to do everything to support the existing sisters in every way they can if the decision is made to close the chapter in order to comply with DZ's constitution, or for whatever reason. Again, it's sheer speculation...and probably a little premature to debate...no one knows what will happen until Council meets with the local DZ members, including alumnae & collegiates.

Just for fun, lets' say DZ does decide to close the chapter for insurance reasons or constitutional reasons or whatever. I, for one, am not particularly concerned that these undergraduate alumnae will somehow lose their affinity for DZ by starting a local sorority which continues to function off campus and recruit members. If that is how they choose to use their energies, then so be it. They can just as easily be active DZ alumnae as they can by XYZ local sorority alumnae/collegiates--as long as they do not share DZ privileged information with women who are not initiated. I do not see this as a conflict of the commitment to DZ anymore than I would see initiation into a service or professional sorority that is equally social as a conflict. THis is my personal opinion, though. The difference of course, is that DZ is for life--the local may or may not hold as deep bonds for them, but if they start something wonderful, then they may keep the door open to recolonizing for future students when Alfred comes to their senses. DZ would not be supporting that collegiate group, and as long as the group made sure that there was no appearance that DZ was--then there would be no liability for DZ national.

While the whole DZ question is an interesting debate, I don't think we should lose sight of the original issue of this thread-which is the tragic loss of another Greek system...even though it appears the system had a pretty controversial history, I think this needs to be a real wake up call to us all, to get our acts together and do what we need to do to prevent it happening at other schools. Granted, most Greek systems are much different--academics are usually well about campus averages, for instance...but this is something we all need to be thinking about, and working with our collegiate chapters as well as universities to make sure that Greeks are seen as valuable contributors to college life....we all know that it is, but clearly, we have to work harder to let others know that.

[Tom Earp]

What there are doing at Alfred is BS!

If my Chapter is no longer there at the Pitt! I will not go back there at all!

I am not a school groupy, I am a Fraternity Man who cares about my Fraternity. period!

If they screw my Organization, why would I wnt to give maney to them!

It seems that the LXA Chapter just rechartered so why would they want to do something stupid? We as an International have our own checks and balances to decide about the local situuations.

I have tried to contact the local and find out who to write my concerns! I will keep trying! I suggest everyone do the same!a

[33girl]

Originally posted by KendraAKO722




It is my understanding that you can be a member of both a local and a national organization. I am a member of a local (at Alfred U.) and several of my sisters are also APO brothers. As long as the other organization is willing to take you given your other letters, theres no reason that they couldnt start a local chapter.

Kendra -

APO is a bit of a different story. It is a national co-ed service fraternity, not a social fraternity. Myself as well as several other members of national Greek orgs on here are also A Phi O brothers. Several of our founders were SAE brothers so this kind of dual membership has gone on from the very beginning.

To make a long story short being in a social fraternity or sorority (local or national) and being in APO is no more of a conflict of interest than being, say, a football player and in the ski club.

[Tom Earp]

Just sent this! If get a reply, Will keep you updated!





As a Modertor of greekchat.com, and see many other Greek Threads, I am dismayed for what your University is doing!

While I do not know all of the things that have gone on on your School Campus, it seems that there is a lot of Knee Jerk reaction going on here!

I know that LXA was just newly rechartered and I do not think that they they would jepordize that! We have many checks and balances in place to make sure that our Chapters are living up to the ideals of our International Fraternity!

In Checking your school site, you have many fine Greek Organizations on your campus and we are all interested in the same thing. Getting the same done not only by the Greek Organizations but as the school, getting the students Graduated and with the best grades possible.

I have been a member of Lambda Chi Alpha since 1966 and am still involved with not only my Chapter but my International Fraternity.

I wish I had more information on some of the situations profesesed by you Board Of Directors!

I for one if my School did what you have done, I would never give anymore money for the Endowment Funds!

I would not back anything that the School did or would do.

I am very sorry for what you have done, unless you can prove to me that the Whole Greek System is at fault!

I hope that someone at Your Institution will contact me so that I can put onto a thread that has Memebers from all Greek Organizations all over the World.






Thomas G. Earp
Lambda Chi Zeta # 1
Lambda Chi Alpha
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)
W-913-334-4567
H-913-299-0246
"The Time Is Now, But Naught Without Labor"

[JenniferAKO710]

Charles M. Edmondson
President, Alfred University
Carnegie Hall
Alfred, NY 14802
edmondson@alfred.edu

Gerald D. Brody
VP for Student Affairs/Dean of Students
Carnegie Hall
Alfred, NY 14802
brodyj@alfred.edu

Mark Shardlow
Director of Alumni Relations and Annual Giving
Greene Hall
Alfred, NY 14802
shardlow@alfred.edu

Jason Pilarz
Editor, The Fiat Lux
Powell Campus Center
Alfred University
Alfred, NY 14802
fiatlux@alfred.edu

[JenniferAKO710]

okay,
I hate computers........

What I meant to reply with was the list that you see above, which is a list of Alfred University contacts. As for contacting the local chapter of Lambda, there should be some information off the unversity website... www.alfred.edu

As for the prohibiting of wearing letters, I don't think the University has any grounds for that. I can wear anything I want to. Our concern has been that the University will want the Greeks gone completely..... meaning even off campus organizations would cease to exist.
If we own our houses, which most of us do, and the University has no money invested into it, I don't see how they can have any control over it. The problem comes with the cooperation between the town of Alfred and the University. The town has had an ordinance for quite some time that no more Greek letters may be posted any more. If you had letters up, you could leave them, but no more may be posted. This effectively means that any new chapters coming to campus, such as the DZ chapter, even if they had a house, could not post letters. We probably will have to take down our letters regardless of the University's decision. However, this doesn't mean that we won't still try to make a go of it.

I think ultimately we need to see what comes down the line. I am sure the University has not even considered the possibility that we may want to still exist, such has occured on other campuses. This is a suggestion that we got from a trustee member:

"Encourage the current sisters to present a plan to the VP of
Student Affairs that would incorporate the following issues:
1) a request for current sisters living in the house to continue to do so until a time they specify
2) a financial statement of the sisterhood's health and ability to keep the house for the period they define
3) a statement or pledge that they will abide by the University's regulations, signed by each sister
4) identify an organization that they would like to work with to ensure the house will stay in "good hands"
5) a request to archive historical documents and placques through Herrick " (our library)

This sounds to me like they want to phase out the system. These "defined periods of time", would suggest as much. We are working to join with other houses in presenting a united front and come up with a plan.
As for joing with the state organizations, which someone suggested before....I don't know.... none of them are the same. It's a pretty small town, and there isn't much of an option for the locals anyway. I think our best bet right now is because so many of us own our houses. That at least is a starting point.
Any suggestions are more than welcome.....

[akomicron]

I just wanted to let all of you know that we are fighting the actions of the University as a Greek system. Those of us still on campus for the summer are wearing letters, sending e-mails and contacting/getting involved as many people as we can. We are also planning all greek meetings! I'm very proud to be an Alfred Greek....we've all pulled together!

For those of you who have read Alfred's press release I wanted to make you aware that the University portrays itself in a very positive light when it came to working with the Greeks. This is not exactly true or how it happened! There was a period of time when we were w/o a Greek Advisor and I would like to know when all the help was offered to us! Furthermore, as a house (AKO) we were told that if we followed the rules and made changes we would be fine...well guess what, that's what we did and where did it get us in the end?--eliminated just like the rest! So I don't see how the University can claim that they helped us.

Furthermore, for those of you who have commeneted on the fact that our Greek system had problems I want to ask you should we be held responsible for the actions taken by fraternities over 20 years ago and should that be hung over our heads? If so then I think those that came before the death of the student at Klan Alpine in 78 should be held responsible as well...this means Gene Bernstein the head of the task force who was Pres. of Klan Alpine (they mention he was Greek but leave out that he was a Klan brother in the releases!).

I also want to point out that Alfred is a small school in WNY...being 10% on our campus I believe is still a significant amount. The press release fails to mention that we still are the largest group on campus and do the most community service. (AKO alone did more community service in a semester than Alpha Phi Omega.)

I could go on and on about how the University has portrayed us but I guess the main point of this message is to tell you when you read the University press release take it w/a grain of salt. It's written to make the University look wonderful and like they helped the "poor" Greek system. When in reality there help was to ignore problems they knew existed and keep sliding them under the rug instead of really punishing houses that were breaking the rules. There solution to problems was to jtst give the House a slap on the hand and send them merrily on their way. In the end we all got, point blank, screwed by the system that was supposedly in place to help us.

Dani
AKO-Hold Your Candle High

[akomicron]

Originally posted by akomicron
Furthermore, for those of you who have commeneted on the fact that our Greek system had problems I want to ask you should we be held responsible for the actions taken by fraternities over 20 years ago and should that be hung over our heads? If so then I think those that came before the death of the student at Klan Alpine in 78 should be held responsible as well...this means Gene Bernstein the head of the task force who was Pres. of Klan Alpine (they mention he was Greek but leave out that he was a Klan brother in the releases!).

I just wanted to clarify that I don't blame Bernstein (who graduated in 69) for the death (I probably shouldn't have singled him out) I'm just saying that if you're going to hold the present Greeks responsible for the death and hold it over our heads, those before for the death should be subjected to the same accusations.

[DeltAlum]

Jennifer,

It's pretty obvious that the university wants the Greek System gone -- whether it is phased out or immediate. I really don't think there is much they can do, however, if all of your activities are off campus. If you remain active, you will have to be very careful about things like alcohol and noise violations and not give the city any grounds to take action against you. You can bet that city and university officials will be cooperating in this venture.

Again, it sounds like there is every possibility that you will be allowed to remain living in your house. It may even be in the university's best interest to keep you there.

If you have a House Corporation, incorporated with the state, that "owns" your house, I would think you could argue that display of your letters should continue to be "grandfathered" as they have been up until now. The House Corp. organization, and thus ownership of the property, is not changing. The university has nothing to do with that. They can't disband that group. They have no control over alums. And, it is the House Corporation, not the chapter, that chooses to display the letters. Even if the house is owned by Nationals, I think that could be true. I'm not a lawyer, though, so I could be wrong.

Having said the above, if you do have to go it alone without a national organization, you all must be absolutely sure that your chapter finances are in order and that liability issues are covered. The locals are used to that. It could be devasting for members and their parents financially in any kind of legal action which would be lost.

I will say again what I alluded to above -- the university most likely hasn't taken these steps without checking with their lawyers for legal precedent. I think any lawsuit would be very expensive and, in the long run, unsucessful. Yours is not the first campus where this has happened. But again, I'm not a lawyer.

Here's the hardest thing I have to say. I don't think that the university will be willing to talk or negotiate its' position. If, by some miracle, they do allow the System to survive, you must clean it up. Dramatically. With no real knowledge except what I've read from these posts, the university releases and the news articles, it appears that some of your chapters may not be worth trying to save. That's tough but necessary. Remember the cliche about the chain only being as strong as its' weakest link. The survivors will have to be models of everything good about the Greek System. Academics, leadership, philanthrophy, etc. Business as usual won't cut it.

Finally, in terms of wearing your letters, if it were me, I would wear them every freakin' day for the rest of my academic career. Just to make a point!