Black/Multiracial women in "White" sororities

[Rain Man]

Ice Cold Kreator,

Three questions:

When you say white organizations, do you mean as in the social NIC/NPC, or does it include professional, honorary, and service GLOs? I need clarificaton.

Also, do you like the fact that blacks join non-NPHC GLOs like Beta Phi Pi, Delta Psi Chi, Gamma Phi Eta, Xi Gamma Phi, and Phi Alpha Psi, or do they fall in the same category as the white organization b/c they haven't been around as long the the NPHC orgs?

Also, when you say blacks turn their backs on BGLOs, could it be because the orgs in question don't make their GLOs conducive to recruiting?

Just had to ask...

Da Rain Man

[Ice Cold Kreator]

Rain Man...

my concern is primarily with social greek letter orgs...

yes, I would say that they fall in the same category unless black (and people of color) have developed and lead that org on all levels...

what do yo mean we don't recruit...that's not true!...we may not do it the same way Sigma Chi does it or Tri-Delta...but we look for viable candidates...and we ask that they seek us out too!

It's kind of different.

hope that answers your question

[ZChi4Life]

I've been reading these posts for a while and well here's my take on things. I am an African-Am. woman and I'm in neither a white sorority or a black one. I'm in a multicultural org--our sorority was founded upon the principles of promoting multiculturalism specifically. Therefore, I have sisters from all different cultures, ethnicities, etc.

Now although I am apart of this type of org, I can understand where those that are in BGLOs are coming from. When I do see someone who is white or another race who belongs to BGLOs, I often question their motive. As any black person will tell you, being black is a very different experience than being white, Indian, Asian or whatever. For example, I have a lot of white friends cuz I went to a predominantly white high school. When I was there, I can't count the number of times that I was questioned about things like "oh, how do black girls get their hair braided" or "how do you guys get a perm but it ends up straight, not curly" or "what are greens or what is 'soul food'". Now, these questions were fortunately directed to me in a nice, polite way in their attempts to understand what my culture was and/or did. And I had no problem answering them. But my point is: WE ARE DIFFERENT! After explaining these things to them the best I could, sometimes, by the looks on their faces, I could tell that they just didn't get it! I'm sure black people in here can back me up on this cuz I'm sure at one point or another, we've had to explain to someone of another culture what we do or why we do something. For me that's no problem and I'm sure that's not a problem for many other black people as well.
However, in saying all this, I can easily see why black people would want to join a black greek org and why it's kinda weird to see a white person belong to a BGLO. While the majority of joining a greek org (white or black) is about doing community service, creating an everlasting bond w/ your brother/sister, etc, etc, it's also about finding a group in which you will connect w/ others period. While some people are fine w/ connecting on a level of "oh we like the same things, share the same interests, etc", some people want another type of connection....one that is more of a cultural connection. Now for me, I feel I can connect w/ anyone no matter what race/color/ethnicity they are. I personally like to find out about different cultures and what they do. That's why joining a multicultural sorority was right up my alley. Hey, I'm also an anthropology major for goodness sakes! But that's just me and I'm sure there are others like that as well (hey, my sisters to be in fact!) But there are others that want to be w/ people that will really really understand where they are coming from on that level I mentioned. For some black people, that may mean that they need/desire to be around other black people. So that they not only have a connection through their sister/brotherhood and share things that are in common, but they also get a cultural connection.

Now, when a person of a different race, in particular a white person, wants to join a BGLO, then a black person may tend to question what is their motivation. It's b/c although people CAN have things in common w/ one another and can be sisters/brothers in a greek org, a white person (Asian, Indian, etc) will never be able to fully understand the cultural experience a black person goes through. Just like black people will never be understand what the cultural experience of a white person. This can also be reversed when you see black people joining white greek orgs. But like I said, that may not matter to those people. Maybe they are just looking for what I like to call a surface connection, meaning: that person just wants to find a group in which they can feel comfortable w/ and share common interests as well as share in the ideals/purpose of that sister/brotherhood and they don't mind not having that cultural connection w/in their org. And that's totally fine but maybe others don't possibly see it as such. A black person in BGLO may think "what could this white person possibly have in common culturally with black people?" I'm not sure if that's what black people in BGLOs are saying, I'm just giving a scenario or possible thought.

Now don't get me wrong, I have no problems with blacks joining white greek orgs or vice versa. I'm just saying that I can see where blacks in BGLOs are coming from with this. I hope this made sense somewhat. Anyone feel free to ask me to clarify things cuz I know I probably said something confusing. I just think overall, there are people that need to connect with others on a level that goes beyond what your organization stands for, ya know? For me, yeah I'm in a multicultural org and I love all my sisters to death! However, I still communicate with my black friends inside and outside of the sorority b/c there are just some things that my other ethnic sisters won't get. I can try to (and I do) help them to understand. But sometimes, you just to want or need to talk about things, specifically cultural things, that are more common among people of your ethnicity/race WITH people of your ethnicity/race. Does that make sense? Is anyone feeling me on this? Holla!

[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited August 09, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited August 09, 2000).]

[DELTABRAT]

Originally posted by Kymberleigh:
DeltaBrat. I'm glad that you didn't shun this particular girl for chosing a GLO. HOwever, in my experience you and your friends are the exception. I know quite a few people who were cut out of the pic. because they joined GLO's and not BGLO's. I wish that my knowledge concerning this issue was more like yours.

However, I disagree with your statement concerning the white/black issue and this woman you speak of. You can't say that because her and her sisters weren't tight after graduation is because of racial issues, and if that is the case with that particular situation. It is for that particular situation. The way you made your statement it seemed as though you use that one case to base why no black person should join a GLO.

Okay, I don't know how to use this thing. I originally wanted to reply to the second half of your post.

Kymberleigh (nice spelling, too): Yes! That's exactly what I was saying and I stand by that notion that it was, maybe not because of her race DIRECTLY, but indirectly that there was not a bond between she and her sisters.

ZChi actually put it in great words that there is simply differences between the cultures. For whatever reason, I think the difference was pronounced in her case with her sisters lack of support during a time when she really needed it.

This is NOT the only case that I have seen at my college campus.

Unfortunately, many black people who join GLOs feel that if race isn't brought up, then is not an issue (someone said that but I can't see the posts and I can't remember). That's BS. Just because race isn't brought up doesn't mean it isn't an issue. It is. That, in my eyes, is a black person who is assimilating. Race is an issue. It has been from day one. Now we're accepted into other organizations, to have a "If you don't bring up me black-ness than I won't" type attitude is NUTS!

Finally, Ice Cold...why am I feeling your every statement?!?!?!

And ZCHI...yes, I was feeling what you were saying...very much so.

Oh yeah, and Rain Man...where you been?
The process of a BGLO is no more elusive than the process of joining a lot of organizations. It is not that we do not seek members, and shouldn't be used as an excuse to seek membership in a GLO. If that were the case we wouldn't have any members as is. In retrospect, when I think about how I had to literally SEARCH for Delta, everything I needed to know was right in front of me. Some people see it, some don't. The ones who do will be able to seek and find the answers to questions CRUCIAL in life, those happen to be the people most BGLOs and seeking. The others who want the answers to be written down and handed to them will fall by the wayside...you can guess the rest... I know people who have been denied membership in certain BGLOs and are STILL trying...one graduated and is in grad school...she is now interested in alumnae. She didn't say "Oh, I'll join XYZ Sorority because the XYZs won't tell me straight out when the rush is, where it is, what to wear, what to say, when the next line is, who made it, how they choose members, what the GPA requirement is....I could go on and on, obviously

Alright...I'm done.

PEACE to ALL!!!

[This message has been edited by DELTABRAT (edited August 09, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by DELTABRAT (edited August 09, 2000).]

[ZChi4Life]

Thanks DELTABRAT, I'm glad someone was cuz I know I said a lot.

[Kymberleigh]

DeltaBrat,

I'm sorry that your campus is that way. I'm even more upset for your godbaby's mom, cuz that just isn't right. Her sisters are sad. But, please don't take you're campus's issues as the reality for the whole. Because I've met quite a few black NPC members who love their house, and are still tight with their sisters after graduate.

Love Ya,

Kymberleigh
Delta Epsilon
Delta Delta Delta

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by Ice Cold Kreator:
Rain Man...

my concern is primarily with social greek letter orgs...

yes, I would say that they fall in the same category unless black (and people of color) have developed and lead that org on all levels...

Well, AFAIK, all the non-NPHC orgs I mentioned were black-founded and are black-governed. As a matter of fact, last year quite a few of them formed the National Greek Alliance (NGA), I guess sort of like to have their own NPHC, so to speak.

what do yo mean we don't recruit...that's not true!...we may not do it the same way Sigma Chi does it or Tri-Delta...but we look for viable candidates...and we ask that they seek us out too!

It's kind of different.

hope that answers your question[/B][/QUOTE]

I am not saying that NPHC orgs do not recruit, but to the college world at large, it seems that NPHC recruitment is done in such a nebulous way, it is almost as if such orgs do not want new members. It's kinda like the non-NPHC world sees the NPHC recruitment as "Yeah, we're here. You just gotta find us and tiptoe around the bush to learn how to become one of us." Now I know the ins and outs and the reasons and intricacies of recruitment and membership and intake and whatnot, but many people do not know, add that to the fact that the etiquette involving the process b/t expressing membership interest and being initiated is often given by word of mouth and secondhand info, which is what I think creates a lot of confusion and thus creates a VERY foggy line between the NPHC Greeks and prospectives. Again, because no book has been written to address such (a Black Greek equivalent to the book "From Here to Fraternity" by Robert Egan would be EXCELLENT for starters), to many, the whole Black Greek experience just seems to be too d@mn confusing to deal with. To that effect, I cannot fault those who join White GLOs for that. Now those who just want to assimilate is another story and is beyond the scope of this thread. But rest assured, those interested that want to carry on the light of the BGLO of their choice will do so in due time.

Just my .25

Da Rain Man

[Ice Cold Kreator]

DeltaBrat I FEEL YOU!!!

Rain Man...nothing in life is easy...and interested people come searching for the light of BGLetterhood...you aren't handed it.

And we do have books...very old books. Those too, must be sought after...

Frat Bro Lawrence Ross has written an excellent book about our organizations called the Divine Nine...almost all of our organizations have published history books that will make it easy to understand us....we have web pages...and not only that...our organizations are deep with people...in fact, its not really that hard to find a BGLO because our ALUMNI usually remain ACTIVE and/or proud of their LETTERS.

It's a little different, you see...
One should never settle...as this is a decision that can effect the rest of your life...

When I was an undergrad, I joined a men's a cappella group b/c that was the closest thing we had to greeks on our campus...same idea/concept...commrodorie...college-long...elite...the whole 7...however, when I became a junior, I realized that ALPHA PHI ALPHA was what I wanted to join...and I could do so through a metro chapter...

Thank GOD my settling didn't leave me stranded with what I thought was a second-rate brotherhood until I could get to my FIRST Choice...

I know that's kinda roundabout...but I hope it sheds some light on my feelings...

A PHIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!--to all my Bruhz,

MUCH LOVE

The Ice Cold Kreator...

"The World Can Be A Very Cold Cold Place"

[equeen]

Originally posted by Poplife:
http://dallasnews.com/lifestyles/105767_AKA05.html

I read the above mentioned article with interest (thanks Poplife for posting it!) What's everyone's take on Ms. Ritu Singh (mentioned in the article) being an AKA? It's interesting to note that while there's a lot of discussion about black women joining GLOs and white women joining BGLOs, there's not been much comment about multiracial women, or women of "other" color (Latinas, Asians, Indians like Ms. Singh) joining either GLOs or BGLOs.

Not being an AKA, I am nor Ms. Singh's soror; she not being an A.S.K., she isn't a Sister; however she is a behen by virtue of our common heritage. Am I proud that Indian women are as strong, ambitious, and as successful as ever? You bet! Way to go, Ritu-behen! You make us all proud.

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equeen
A Lioness has her Pride!
@>--;--
Alpha Sigma Kappa - Women in Technical Studies

[mwedzi]

ZChi, I am an anthropolgy major, too. My organization is predominantly white, nationally speaking. But my chapter, though not called so, might as well be what you call a "multi-cultural" organization. And as I said in another post, most of my feelings for my organization come from my experiences with my chapter even though it is a national org.

Now to those who think it is so "sad" that I, a black woman, pledged a (nationally) predominantly white organization, I neither desire nor need the sympathy. No, I never thought that not talking about race meant race was not an issue. It was never our policy in our chapter to not talk about race. Our chapter mostly consisted of people who, in the US, are numerical minorities, and our individual cultures were very visible in our daily lives and we made no attempt to hide them, diminish them, or ignore them. Nor do I think that joining a black organization means race is no longer an issue in your life.

I'm sorry, but I have to speak my mind (we all say "i'm sorry" when we are about to be honest/possible offensive, but I don't think any of us are really sorry). I get downright angry when people say that black people who spend a lot of their time outside of the black community don't know what it is to be black or don't know the black experience or are trying to be white (that's basically what people mean when they use that nice term "assimilate"). How could those of us who so often end up the only or one of the few black faces in the room forget we are black? That idea is ridiculous. It is impossible to forget, and I doubt most of us would want to, anyway. Not only do we not forgot, but we can see the contrast because we are in the prescence of others from different cultures. I know that atmosphere bothers some, and if they feel uncomfortable or that they cannot have a tight bond because of it, then so it is. For them.

We are told that there is no need to be defensive or that no one is being offensive, but frankly, I see it all the time on this board. Just because it is said nicely doesn't mean it isn't offensive. Just because someone goes back and says "i didn't mean any harm" doesn't make it not an assault on someone's beliefs and values. Just because one says it ain't doesn't really mean it ain't.

I strongly value the fact that my chapter (which is, in all truth, where I will have 99% of interaction with my sorority) had so many different colors, countries, languages and what not represented in it. It was one of the reasons I chose it, and the same has been said from other sisters who joined us. I gained so much from that fact. I learned so much that I would not have learned otherwise.

And with that said, I'm done.

[Tiara98]

I find this particular thread interesting. I'm the secretary of a new local sorority at my university, whose motto is 'United in Diversity'. Some of us rushed, were even offered bids, but we dissatisfied when we didn't find what we were looking for in the sororities on campus.

I attend a university outside of Baltimore w/ a high commuter population. We're constantly reminded that TU is consistently included on Playboy's top 10 list of colleges with the hottest girls. I personally get sick and tired of feeling intimidated by bleach-blonde girls with lots of makeup that I can't relate to. Not to say that they aren't great people, but I am nothing like them. And I didn't like feeling that if I can't be like them, I wasn't what their sorority was looking for.

Biologically, I am 1/2 Middle-Eastern/North African (Tunisia). My mother is white. My step/adoptive father is Japanese. My siblings are 1/2 Japanese. I was raised 'upper middle class white'. I grew up in a suburban New England where for the most part, everyone -- including 'minorities' "acts and talks white".

I would love to say that I'm not prejudiced at all. But we all are. I don't see people of color as anything but people when they talk, act, and think in a way that is consistent with how and where I was brought up. But I will admit that I do see people who perpetuate stereotypes as a color.

I lived in Baltimore City for a few months with an African-American woman my age who I did not relate to at all. She wasn't in school, her mother had never been married, many of her friends had children. How she grew up made my family look like billionaires.

At first I was all excited about what a great experience it would be for me. We even got along incredibly well at first. But as time went on, the socio-economic rift between us became glaringly obvious. Communication was almost impossible, and the whole situation was very uncomfortable. Which was disappointing... I like to think that everyone truly is equal and can get along, but it's not so simple as that ideal.

My point is this: someone made the point that the #1 motive for pledging a particular sorority should be that you feel comfortable there. I agree. I hate to make this a racial issue, but it kind of is. For example: a woman of African descent who grew up in a predominantly white area will most likely feel the more comfortable in a predominantly white sorority.

My organization is an infant in Greek-dom. We are really trying to affiliate with a national in the next year or so, and have a particular one in mind. Our 2000-2001 recruitment is going to be intensive all across campus, but we are making special efforts to advertise is the Black Student Union and Office of Diversity Resources.

Why? Well, there are 2 'historically black colleges' in the immediate area. We do have 7 NPHC GLO's on campus, and I'm sure that many of the African-American students on campus who are interested in Greek Life are happy with them. But it's quite possible that there are some who feel limited by and to the NPHC orgs. It's HIGHLY uncommon for blacks to rush the 'white' fraternities and sororities on our campus, because the university climate tends to restrict those to 'Barbie and Ken' types. We're trying to do something different.

I'm going to be real with all of you and tell you this: My sorority is down to 5 sisters. We are the Alpha class. At one point, we were up to 12 members, but there were commitment issues. It seemed that some of our recruitees only wanted to wear letters w/o having to go through rush or doing any work. They didn't want to participate except when they felt like it, and ended up dropping out fairly quickly. It's frustrating. We have many obstacles. And I might have dropped out too, if I didn't believe so strongly in what myself and my sisters are trying to do.

One thing that really impresses me is that of the 5, there is myself (Catholic from a suburban Epcot center), two Caucasian women (Protestant, I think), an Indian/Hindu woman, and a Thai woman. Yet we are very close, have fun, and work well together. It's like home for me. And living 500 miles from my actual home, where I have lost touch with most of my high school friends and only have the opportunity to visit my family once a year, it's just what I need.

You can check out Theta Sig's site at http://www.geocities.com/thetasigmaalpha.



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Amanda M.
Secretary/Social Chair
Theta Sigma Alpha,Towson University

[ZChi4Life]

Mwedzi--Anthro rules, does it not? hehehe I don't meet too many anthro peeps, so I had to say something!

Anyway, to the topic. Mwedzi, you bring up some good points and I'm feeling you on some stuff. Especially the

I get downright angry when people say that black people who spend a lot of their time outside of the black community don't know what it is to be black or don't know the black experience or are trying to be white

Girl, have I been through that up, down and around! But hey, I've learned to just do what I gotta do and if that means hanging around WHOEVER makes you happy, then so be it.

Now, as far as what you were saying about your org. You said (and this is just the gist, so forgive me if I get it wrong) but you said your sorority might as well be "multicultural"....and that's the reason you chose it. Ok, well that's cool. But I think that for some black people in BGLOs, they might not think of there being much mixture in traditionally white greek orgs. I know when I think of the NPC/IFC groups on my campus, I think pretty much that they are all white. So maybe in your case, this does not really apply. But on my campus, out of the NPC and IFC, the minorities involved in those is about 2%. Not much diversity right? Then again, the total Greek popul. is like 15%--so maybe it's not that bad. Nonetheless, it's not great either. I know there are 2-3 black men in the IFC groups and there are 30 IFC groups on my campus. Uh, can we say "where is the mixture?" So I think that is what most black peeps in BGLOs are thinking of when talking about this issue; that the black people who join NPC/IFC orgs are joining ones that are virtually all white--maybe one minority here and there. But I can't really speak for everyone else on that so, forgive me if I put words in someone else's head.
Now I don't know about your campus, so maybe where you go it's different and it's not uncommon for a black,asian,indian, etc to join a NPC/IFC org. At my school as you can see, it's pretty taboo. Then again, we have white, black, latino/a, asian and now a multicultural greek orgs. Oops, we have an Indian fraternity too. We are just all segregated aren't we?
Oh and w/ my org (just to make it clear) we are not a NPC sorority that looks multicultural. Nope, we were founded by an ethnically mixed group of women and our principles/goals/ideals/ are to promote and foster multiculturalism/diversity and education (specifically multicult. education) to our communities. So we are multicultural in every sense of the word. My sisters and I represent around some 60+ different ethnicities and we're still growing! Just wanted to make that clear
peace ya'll

[prospectiverushee]

This is a very interesting subject indeed. As most everybody knows I am non-greek doing tons of research right now trying to find the "right sorority" for me.

I have nothing but love for all BGLO/LGLO/MCGLO/GLO but I feel that I would be cheating myself if I just limited my research to just BGLO's. (Before everyone jumps down on my back,hear me out)

I started my research on different organizations back in 96. I had always grown up hearing about AKA,Delta, and Zeta.(not so much Sigma Gamma Rho cause there weren't many chapters around) So when I started doing research I wanted to see what other organizations were out there. And as everybody who read this knows, there are a lot of organizations to choose from.

Greeklife is not for everybody,so to make sure that this is something that I wanted to do, I went thur Formal Rush at LSU last year.

I was the only African-American female who rushed last year and while I was cut after the second round, it's an experience I'll never forget. Nothing bad happened. In fact I was shown nothing but kindness when I was went thur rush. Believe me, I thought long and hard before I made my decision to rush:

-what would the other black students think if they saw me wearing XYZ instead of MNO

-if I had gotten a bid,how comfortable would I feel around my "sisters"

-if I had gotten a bid, how comfortable would my "sisters" feel around me

In the end,everything worked itself out. There is a place for me in a GLO,just maybe not one on LSU's campus.

I'm happy that there are places like this and www.greekpages and localsororities' website to help me continue my research. I feel like I'm weird because my heart isn't geared toward a BGLO. I could choose one if I were forced to,but I would be happy.(and I have spent to much time on this not to be happy with my final choose). I'm just glad that I there is a place like this for me to read and see that there are other people out there who felt the way I do and so they made a decision that was right for them.

[prospectiverushee]

Rain Man,

You're story was deep. Really deep.

I've been doing research for 4 years so I the GLO that I pledge be it BGLO,LGLO,MCGLO,or GLO be the I'm happy with. Cause like I said before,i don't want to choose something that I'm not going to be happy with (especally after doing this much research for such a long time)

[mwedzi]

ZChi, I like how you're able to see multiple points of view. And I suppose a campus with chapters 98% white must look strange when they have their one or two minorities, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I don't know their lives, experiences, or thoughts.

BTW, my chapter is in east LA, so the traditional majority was definitely the minorty there.