Could I Fit In ..?

[adpiucf]

Me, too. FWIW, I don't think sexuality has any place in recruitment. We tell PNMs and members not to talk about the 3 B's: booze, boys, or the bible. I think that talking about "boys" should mean talking about any aspect of your relationships.

I do have a problem with members being biased against a PNM for her sexual orientation, but I also think wearing your sexual orientation on your sleeve during a first impression meeting such as sorority recruitment is inappropriate.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

I do have a problem with members being biased against a PNM for her sexual orientation, but I also think wearing your sexual orientation on your sleeve during a first impression meeting such as sorority recruitment is inappropriate.

I get what you're trying to say, but how else would a PNM determine if it's going to be a problem for a chapter?

[AlphaFrog]

There's got to be a happy medium in there somewhere. I don't think a BIG deal should be made about it, but I also don't think that a PNM should have to worry about the right time to "come out" to her sisters (and then find out they're NOT ok with it). Obviously not something to discuss the first day of rush, but I also wouldn't save it until Prefs, unless it's a school that Prefs three chapters. A PNM wouldn't want to get down to 1 chapter on Pref night and then find out that it's going to be a problem.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I get what you're trying to say, but how else would a PNM determine if it's going to be a problem for a chapter?

Exactly.

And "boys" as a topic to be avoided in rush conversations and a person's sexuality are two VASTLY different things. We tell girls not to talk about boys, let's call a spade a spade, because they might have banged the wrong person. Can you hide forever that you slept with the sorority president's boyfriend the summer before you pledged? Yes. Can you hide forever that you're a lesbian? For many people, no, unless you want to be miserable. If you want to keep that hidden from your sisters forever, I guess you can do it, but you'll probably also be keeping many of your relationships on a very shallow level.

[HannahXO]

One way for this to come up is by mentioning activities-a PNM could say she is involved with an LGBT group on campus, and this is a good way to bring up sexuality and gauge actives' reactions without having to say "So I'm gay, is that a problem?"

I am a very open and accepting person (our chapter has several gay women, even one pair who is dating) but I would be a little put off if a PNM just brought up her sexuality out of the blue. Another tactic that could work is to talk to a sister you know- either one you have known or a woman you feel you've built a relationship with during rush- and confide in her. Say "I know this is a little awkward, but I really want to make sure XYZ would be ok with taking a member who is gay..."

Just my 2 cents on a really old thread but maybe it'll help someone in the future

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

We tell PNMs and members not to talk about the 3 B's: booze, boys, or the bible.

Just throwing this out there: We're banned from the 4 B's: Booze (partying), Boys (grey area), Bible (religion), Barack (politics).

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by victoriana

I kinda wonder how this turned out.

Me too because my cousin's daughter pledged Kappa at UT last fall.

[Drolefille]

It is annoying that bringing up one's sexuality out of the blue only applies to non-heterosexuals. If I mention a boyfriend, no one will think twice. If I mention a girlfriend, some would be upset that I was 'flaunting' or 'wearing my sexuality on my sleeve.' Both are bringing up one's sexuality after all.

Few but the incredibly awkward, or very fed up would just walk in to recruitment and say "I am a lesbian/bisexual/queer/gay/etc." And as coming out of the closet is an ongoing process, not a once in a lifetime thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with not coming out during recruitment. The idea that they might not be welcome isn't something that people need to be told by college, and it's their call. Anyone who would be upset over being 'lied to' is kind of missing the point IMO.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And as coming out of the closet is an ongoing process, not a once in a lifetime thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with not coming out during recruitment. The idea that they might not be welcome isn't something that people need to be told by college, and it's their call. Anyone who would be upset over being 'lied to' is kind of missing the point IMO.

In your last sentence, do you mean "anyone" as in the rushee or "anyone" as in the chapter?

I get what you're saying about it being bit by bit, but as far as the OP, she is apparently so far out that she isn't even in the same house as the closet.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

In your last sentence, do you mean "anyone" as in the rushee or "anyone" as in the chapter?

I get what you're saying about it being bit by bit, but as far as the OP, she is apparently so far out that she isn't even in the same house as the closet.

OP didn't rebump the thread so I wasn't talking about her. Was just responding to the whole idea of being upfront about orientation and what counts as flaunting it and why it's a double standard.

And anyone as in the chapter as i was speaking about it.

(And I have to laugh at alumnae talking about how things 'are down here' when hopefully the actives have the ability and the desire to change things. If lesbians can maybe just maybe go to the prom in Mississippi, hopefully they can just maybe go to a sorority formal. The bigotry of 'how things are' shouldn't just be accepted. I hope the actives are changing it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

OP didn't rebump the thread so I wasn't talking about her. Was just responding to the whole idea of being upfront about orientation and what counts as flaunting it and why it's a double standard.

If you ever read the Live from New York book (oral history of SNL), Terry Sweeney has a really good quote about how people aren't being intentionally homophobic, they just see a gay guy here and a straight guy here and it doesn't occur to them that they're in the same place. (Obviously he is a writer and said this better.)

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

(And I have to laugh at alumnae talking about how things 'are down here' when hopefully the actives have the ability and the desire to change things. If lesbians can maybe just maybe go to the prom in Mississippi, hopefully they can just maybe go to a sorority formal. The bigotry of 'how things are' shouldn't just be accepted. I hope the actives are changing it.

Thank you so much for this comment. I could not agree more. I have zero issue with regions that like to stick to tradition. Have your boys wear Polo and your girls wear Lily, whatever, it's all good. I do, however, have an issue when this sense of sticking to tradition blatantly ignores the advancements in science, psychology and human rights that have time and time again shown that sexuality is completely uncontrollable and unchangeable.

Would a hyper-effeminate gay man who loves to design woman's clothes and a butchy lesbian who only wears Doc Martens and flannel find a home in a traditionally Southern GLO? Almost assuredly no, and my guess is that most who fit this stereotype would prefer to join any other organization BUT a traditional chapter. But the thing is that such a small fraction of the LGBT population comes even close to fitting those stereotypes. ALL large chapters have closeted members. I'm sorry, it is just a statistical probability. Allowing your brothers/sisters to go through the hyper vigilant, devastating and soul sucking hell that is being in the closet (and I'm not going to apologize for the extremism there, it really is that bad and lonely) just so you can stick to an antiquated and incorrect view of human nature is about as far from brotherhood and sisterhood as you can possibly get. It is nothing to be proud of.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Thank you so much for this comment. I could not agree more. I have zero issue with regions that like to stick to tradition. Have your boys wear Polo and your girls wear Lily, whatever, it's all good. I do, however, have an issue when this sense of sticking to tradition blatantly ignores the advancements in science, psychology and human rights that have time and time again shown that sexuality is completely uncontrollable and unchangeable.

Would a hyper-effeminate gay man who loves to design woman's clothes and a butchy lesbian who only wears Doc Martens and flannel find a home in a traditionally Southern GLO? Almost assuredly no, and my guess is that most who fit this stereotype would prefer to join any other organization BUT a traditional chapter. But the thing is that such a small fraction of the LGBT population comes even close to fitting those stereotypes. ALL large chapters have closeted members. I'm sorry, it is just a statistical probability. Allowing your brothers/sisters to go through the hyper vigilant, devastating and soul sucking hell that is being in the closet (and I'm not going to apologize for the extremism there, it really is that bad and lonely) just so you can stick to an antiquated and incorrect view of human nature is about as far from brotherhood and sisterhood as you can possibly get. It is nothing to be proud of.

I hope that even the most traditional chapter would accept a gay member of their chapter when considering the friendship and brotherhood/sisterhood they've built with them. I think the idea that this would not happen comes from the erroneous thought that when a member comes out it means he or she will now conform to x stereotype. In all actuality the only change that will probably occur is that the member will finally be able to lead a happy life being true to him/herself.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Thank you so much for this comment. I could not agree more. I have zero issue with regions that like to stick to tradition. Have your boys wear Polo and your girls wear Lily, whatever, it's all good. I do, however, have an issue when this sense of sticking to tradition blatantly ignores the advancements in science, psychology and human rights that have time and time again shown that sexuality is completely uncontrollable and unchangeable.

Would a hyper-effeminate gay man who loves to design woman's clothes and a butchy lesbian who only wears Doc Martens and flannel find a home in a traditionally Southern GLO? Almost assuredly no, and my guess is that most who fit this stereotype would prefer to join any other organization BUT a traditional chapter. But the thing is that such a small fraction of the LGBT population comes even close to fitting those stereotypes. ALL large chapters have closeted members. I'm sorry, it is just a statistical probability. Allowing your brothers/sisters to go through the hyper vigilant, devastating and soul sucking hell that is being in the closet (and I'm not going to apologize for the extremism there, it really is that bad and lonely) just so you can stick to an antiquated and incorrect view of human nature is about as far from brotherhood and sisterhood as you can possibly get. It is nothing to be proud of.

Applause for this post. Though my chapter wasn't a "traditional" southern chapter, it was definitely a chapter in the south, and the issue came up while I was an active. I know of an alum that chose to keep her orientation to herself until she graduated...and it bothered me then and still does that she felt that she couldn't date or be herself while she was an active. But I know why she chose to stay "in the closet" and I don't blame her. I doubt she would have faced outright in-your-face prejudice had she come out, but I KNOW she would have faced some passive aggressive behavior and snide comments at the least. And this was only a few years ago.

I just fail to understand why a persons' sexual orientation, whatever it may be, is such a big deal.

[alphagam<3]

We have a 5th B: Bank (money)