Leaving Fraternity

[vaisbest]

I counselor teenagers and I keep reading advise on these pages that makes me wonder if you actually care about what you are saying or just being insensitive or what? when you decide to leave any organization whether it is a job or sorority or frat or even social network, you don't just tell everyone before you have researched the ramifications. now, with that said, when leaving a frat at the college, you can be penalized in ways that have nothing to do with money or what was said during rush. there are other members that like to make you uncomfortable, gossip about you and in general make you cringe into the background when you see them. one young lady I have counseled feels so uncomfortable around the girls from the sorority she left that she goes in another direction when she sees them. They whisper and point at her and make her feel less than because she did not want to be a part of their sorority. Ladies, are we all so heartless that we don't understand this? If you think your sorority or your daughter does not do this, you might be very surprised to know how she treats other young women. and guys can be just as petty. GET ALL THE INFO YOU CAN BEFORE ANYONE CONNECTED TO THE FRAT KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR INTENTIONS TO LEAVE.

[33girl]

Thank you for the compliment (I think) but are you talking to me in the rest of your post??? I'm really .

[Kansas City]

Originally Posted by vaisbest

there are other members that like to make you uncomfortable, gossip about you and in general make you cringe into the background when you see them. one young lady I have counseled feels so uncomfortable around the girls from the sorority she left that she goes in another direction when she sees them. They whisper and point at her and make her feel less than because she did not want to be a part of their sorority. Ladies, are we all so heartless that we don't understand this? If you think your sorority or your daughter does not do this, you might be very surprised to know how she treats other young women. and guys can be just as petty.

I'm sure that some will scream at me for this but ... we also have to realize that when we choose a decision that is in our personal best interest (leaving and organization) we cannot assume that everyone else is whispering and gossiping about us behind our backs. We have to have thicker skins and realize that the world doesn't revolve around us.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It's never not funny when people make these kinds of announcements.

No you are absolutely correct!


While in talking with this young man, I found out the problem and we discussed his options.

There is a way for him to deactivate, but, that is between him and his Brothers only.

Whether he makes that decission, that is his and his only!

----------------------------------------------------

Zillini, I am not sure where your post came from about a lawsuit but wonder how ignorant you seem to be?

If you do not know, then let it go!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Zillini, I am not sure where your post came from about a lawsuit

She meant if an organization tried to collect fees and otherwise keep a member involved, even when he had tried to resign in the proper manner and notified the national office of his intentions, the organization would most likely be sued.

It would be like if you phoned, emailed, and wrote multiple letters to the gas company asking them to turn off your service and they kept on billing you.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yeah, but what Psi_U seemed to be saying is that the fraternities will not terminate someone on a national level and therefore he is still bound to his financial obliagations. I don't think that is true.

This isn't the Mafia. If someone wants to formally surrender their membership in an organization they can't be "made" to stay - if they request this several times and the NO refuses to remove them from the rolls, that is the NO's issue.

A lot of people just don't know. LOL.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Just because someone decides they no longer want to live in their current apartment does not mean they can disregard the lease. They may still have to fulfill their legal obligations (i.e. rent).

It seems that if there are financial obligations, IHQ and/or the chapter would have similar legal grounds to go after the guy. If the guy was simply allowed to turn in his pin and quit - without some sort of legal termination by IHQ - then it seems like he might be able to claim he no longer is responsible for any money owed. Simply because he is no longer a member.

Now if IHQ and/or the chapter elects to forgo any of the obligations (i.e. write-off the financial obligation) just to be rid of the guy (i.e. trim the fat), then there are no obligations on either side. And frankly, I would venture to guess that as long as there isn't a lot of money involved, the guy would be cut loose.

Originally Posted by 33girl

She meant if an organization tried to collect fees and otherwise keep a member involved, even when he had tried to resign in the proper manner and notified the national office of his intentions, the organization would most likely be sued.

It would be like if you phoned, emailed, and wrote multiple letters to the gas company asking them to turn off your service and they kept on billing you.

Exactly 33girl. Thank you.

In addition, I never said the chapter/GLO in question was or wasn't entitled to the dues from an initiated yet resigned member since s/he did make an obligation. I merely stated that I anticipate a resigned member to file a lawsuit if s/he continues to be billed. The outcome of that lawsuit would be up to a judge and based on the interpretation of the GLO's membership agreement/obligation. But, it's worth pointing out that the resulting bad press that comes about would probably far outweigh any potential recouped finances.

As for TSteven's apartment lease analogy, true. It is a legally binding contract that one cannot simply walk away from if s/he changes their mind. However, a landlord is also expected to try to mitigate the loss by attempting to re-rent. If succesful, they may only sue the lease breaker for the actual lost rent and any costs incurred to do so (i.e. advertising, apartment showings, repairs, etc.)

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

----------------------------------------------------

Zillini, I am not sure where your post came from about a lawsuit but wonder how ignorant you seem to be?

If you do not know, then let it go!

My post came from being threatened by lawsuits from too many sorority members and parents over the years, often over things that were far more piddly than this. Ignorant? Not hardly.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by vaisbest

I counselor teenagers and I keep reading advise on these pages that makes me wonder if you actually care about what you are saying or just being insensitive or what? when you decide to leave any organization whether it is a job or sorority or frat or even social network, you don't just tell everyone before you have researched the ramifications. now, with that said, when leaving a frat at the college, you can be penalized in ways that have nothing to do with money or what was said during rush. there are other members that like to make you uncomfortable, gossip about you and in general make you cringe into the background when you see them. one young lady I have counseled feels so uncomfortable around the girls from the sorority she left that she goes in another direction when she sees them. They whisper and point at her and make her feel less than because she did not want to be a part of their sorority. Ladies, are we all so heartless that we don't understand this? If you think your sorority or your daughter does not do this, you might be very surprised to know how she treats other young women. and guys can be just as petty. GET ALL THE INFO YOU CAN BEFORE ANYONE CONNECTED TO THE FRAT KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR INTENTIONS TO LEAVE.

frat?

talk about offensive, i'm not in a frat.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by 33girl

She meant if an organization tried to collect fees and otherwise keep a member involved, even when he had tried to resign in the proper manner and notified the national office of his intentions, the organization would most likely be sued.

It would be like if you phoned, emailed, and wrote multiple letters to the gas company asking them to turn off your service and they kept on billing you.

Good analogy. And applicable to the member "in good standing" (i.e. paid up). And apologies for not being clear. I too feel that the member should not be billed for dues moving forward. And frankly, I have never heard of that happening.

However, just like the gas company has every right to go after the dead beat for past due amounts, so does the GLO have the right to collect dues owed them. Most often, the issue has to do with the chapters being screwed and not IHQ. As such, until all financial obligations are settled with both the chapter and IHQ, the IHQ may wait to legally terminate membership if it is in their (or the chapter's) best interest to do so.

ETA: Zillini, I think we are in general agreement. Continued billing is bad. Collection of what is owed, "good".

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

frat?

talk about offensive, i'm not in a frat.

Some people are and maybe that poster is talking about those people.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Some people are and maybe that poster is talking about those people.

Yea. I'm surprised these seasoned posters don't know that by now.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Is it only NIC fraternities that take offense at the therm 'frat'? I know NPHC fraternities use it, but I'm not sure about NALFO or other orgs.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Is it only NIC fraternities that take offense at the therm 'frat'? I know NPHC fraternities use it, but I'm not sure about NALFO or other orgs.

Many of the NALFO fraternity members that I've come across don't take offense to it.

[fivestarpikapp]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yeah, but what Psi_U seemed to be saying is that the fraternities will not terminate someone on a national level and therefore he is still bound to his financial obliagations. I don't think that is true.

Originally Posted by 33girl

This isn't the Mafia. If someone wants to formally surrender their membership in an organization they can't be "made" to stay - if they request this several times and the NO refuses to remove them from the rolls, that is the NO's issue.

I Agree. I know many people who are not able to make financial obligation and just move their status with nationals to inactive. What i was trying to state before that I have also seen people who had disaffilated with their (national) fraternity or sorority completely, but usually don't choose to get back into greek life. It would seem logical to say that you are allowed to join another fraternity after dropping your letters, but like i said, the end point is that and individual who drops your letters and joining a different fraternity/sorority is highly disrespectful to Greek Life as a whole, and I wouldn't understand anyone who would even consider taking a person who has done that.


SeerSuckers, good luck with your situation.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

OTW- well said and thanks for the clarification. I was not aware that there is policy on the books allowing for people to de-brother and pledge elsewhere. I just know that as a matter of practice it is not done.

Originally Posted by TSteven

I doubt the "first" fraternity would want him. I took Psi U MC Vito's post to mean that a member can not simply state "I am no longer an ABC" and be done with it. The IHQ would have to formally (legally) terminate his membership for it to be fact.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

OK, that makes much more sense.



Are you saying that I/HQs would prefer to keep a member who no longer wants to be affiliated with the organization? My experience has shown that they'd be happy to trim the fat.

RE: this issue, I have some amount of experience with it.

Here is a situation that happened on my campus while I was in college (at a fraternity I frequently hung out at before this whole drama made me realize they were sort of lame):

ABC's charter was revoked for risk management issues over the summer. However, the charges were viewed by many as bogus.

The ABCs did not want to lie down and lose their status as a fraternity. They decided to pursue affiliation with another NIC organization. To clarify, when their charter was revoked, they remained members of ABC - alumni members.

They pursued affiliation with XYZ. In order to become members of XYZ and follow NIC policy, they all resigned their membership with ABC. However, ABC refused to release them as members. It seemed (at the time) that you could somehow RESIGN your membership but not be RELEASED from obligation to ABC (legally). At least that was ABC's argument.

The former members of ABC initiated into XYZ and were chartered as a chapter of XYZ without getting an official release from ABC. Their argument was that ABC's stance that resignation vs. release from obligations would not stand up in court. There was speculation on campus that ABC would sue XYZ, but in fact that never happened. I don't know if was because they didn't have a case, or if it just wasn't worth it to them.

XYZ ultimately failed as an organization on campus when IFC and Student Life both refused to recognize them.

Many of the members of ABC/XYZ joined another fraternity on campus that had previously been quite strong but had suddenly encountered trouble and was in need of members. We'll call this MNO. Supposedly, the ABC/XYZ members were "social members" of MNO only - they lived in the house and paid social fees for parties and food, but were not initiated members of MNO (this was a somewhat common practice at my university). However, I heard rumors that some ABC/XYZ members were ALSO initiated into MNO. Certainly many of them attended some national MNO events sponsored by the fraternity headquarters - and I have pictures to prove it. I have no idea if they pursued a release from XYZ as well, if they were indeed initiated.

So it does happen. And this has happened at other campuses too, with XYZ being the incoming organization, I might add. Of course it's not common, because most NIC orgs, unlike XYZ, have too much self-respect to attempt to pull off something lame like this.

The part that surprises me about the whole thing still is that MNO got dragged into it - but I guess they figured better take the ABC/XYZs than die. Although I don't think MNO will ever be the fraternity it once was, because the ABC/XYZs took over their rush.