NPHC grade requirements?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

This is a question that I've asked for 10 years now. I think a lot of it has to do with chapter size, as well as the slightly elevated age of NPHC chapter members. If a pledge class of 50 pulls a 3.5 in their lower division classes, that could offset the 3.0 average of a senior class. Since NPHC chapters are smaller, that doesn't average out to be the same. Also, the vast majority of NPHC members I know are engineers, pre-med, and pre-dental. Their GPAs aren't going to be as high as the NPC chapter with a ton of art history, interior design, or education majors.

I agree with what you've said about the NPHC topic generally, but. . .

Was it really your experience that the average NPC had a ton of art history, interior design, and education majors?

It wasn't the case in mine, and I wouldn't say there was a big difference in majors between NPCs and NPHCs members in my limited experience.

I also feel the need to defend art history and interior design, at least at UGA. Art history was a rigorous as regular history, FWIW, which I realize isn't the same as being a hard science major. And interior design, if you took it through the school of art, was actually a very highly selective and rigorous program.

Now, I'm not saying that they were as hard as physics or engineering, but they were nowhere near as easy as education classes of which I've taken a few.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Was it really your experience that the average NPC had a ton of art history, interior design, and education majors?

I also feel the need to defend art history and interior design, at least at UGA. Art history was a rigorous as regular history, FWIW, which I realize isn't the same as being a hard science major. And interior design, if you took it through the school of art, was actually a very highly selective and rigorous program.

If you feel the need to defend, knock yourself out. I was an Architecture major who minored in Art History and Italian, so, I think I know of what I speak. Art History was by far one of the most popular majors in my sorority, and it was as well for the other NPC on my campus. I knew more NPHC sorority members--not just at my school, but in my family--taking engineering and hard sciences. Those classes can do a number on your GPA that Intro to the Renaissance just can't.

I had to take an engineering class to fill one of my Structures requirements, and I can totally vouch for the fact that the class was one of the hardest ones I've taken. Art history isn't a total walk in the park, but I'd take 10 of those classes any day over engineering.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

If you feel the need to defend, knock yourself out. I was an Architecture major who minored in Art History and Italian, so, I think I know of what I speak. Art History was by far one of the most popular majors in my sorority, and it was as well for the other NPC on my campus. I knew more NPHC sorority members--not just at my school, but in my family--taking engineering and hard sciences. Those classes can do a number on your GPA that Intro to the Renaissance just can't.

I had to take an engineering class to fill one of my Structures requirements, and I can totally vouch for the fact that the class was one of the hardest ones I've taken. Art history isn't a total walk in the park, but I'd take 10 of those classes any day over engineering.

I completely agree that Art History is easier than engineering. But if you were looking for easy classes at UGA, it didn't top the list, maybe just because we had easier stuff (remember that intro to basketball final that made the news with Jim Herrick Jr?).

It's not that I think Art History is super-hard; there's just no way, in my experience, that it's in the same league as education. And AH didn't seem to be a particularly Greek major at my school when I was there.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Also, the vast majority of NPHC members I know are engineers, pre-med, and pre-dental. Their GPAs aren't going to be as high as the NPC chapter with a ton of art history, interior design, or education majors.

Because anecdotes totally make it true.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

We already know that this is one of "those" threads.

sigh, unfortunately. i should be doing my duty and putting the fire out, but its more fun to just add more lighter fluid.

Originally Posted by MeezDiscreet

You're pondering pretty hard on an issue that is very campus-specific. The OP should go ask those chapter members why their GPA is so low then report his/her findings.

... endscene.

[UGAalum94]

You want to conduct an informal greek survey to see how campus specific it is? Everyone with access could post the grade reports, and we could see what the trends were, if there were any.

I kind of doubt we'll get much participation though.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Because anecdotes totally make it true.

Hey, no need for the snark. I just related my experiences as a member of an NPC chapter where there were a lot of Art History majors. The workload my sisters and I had wasn't nearly as intense as some of my NPHC friends and family members, who for whatever reason, decided to focus on different fields of study.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Hey, no need for the snark. I just related my experiences as a member of an NPC chapter where there were a lot of Art History majors. The workload my sisters and I had wasn't nearly as intense as some of my NPHC friends and family members, who for whatever reason, decided to focus on different fields of study.

It's also true that NPCs tend to have much higher member numbers than NPHCs - of course we will have more marketing and communications majors. We have more members. I would be interested to see percentage-wise how that goes, though. My chapter has quite a lot of science majors or pre-med, which are very difficult and time consuming.

[alum]

Some of it has to do with the student's academic strengths and weaknesses. For me, the calculus, OR, and other higher-level number-crunching problem sets were much easier than writing interminable papers.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by alum

Some of it has to do with the student's academic strengths and weaknesses. For me, the calculus, OR, and other higher-level number-crunching problem sets were much easier than writing interminable papers.

Thank you - this has always been my experience. What is an easy class for you might not be for someone else - I've had plenty of engineering and science students struggle in the English courses I've taught.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Thank you - this has always been my experience. What is an easy class for you might not be for someone else - I've had plenty of engineering and science students struggle in the English courses I've taught.

Oh completely, individual strengths play in.

But, I think that there are more people who have the background skill, aptitude, and interest to be competent English majors than can pull the same grades in engineering. Some of it may be the way the disciplines typically approach grading and instruction.

ETA: or that students typically get better preparation for the skills in English than they do in higher level math and science before they get to college.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

ETA: or that students typically get better preparation for the skills in English than they do in higher level math and science before they get to college.

Oh, for sure. At my high school, 4 years of English were required..but only 2 of science and math. That's through basic algebra, and with only 2 years of science, you only hit half of the basic four - chemistry, biology, physics and earth science/geology.

Terrible.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Oh completely, individual strengths play in.

But, I think that there are more people who have the background skill, aptitude, and interest to be competent English majors than can pull the same grades in engineering. Some of it may be the way the disciplines typically approach grading and instruction.

ETA: or that students typically get better preparation for the skills in English than they do in higher level math and science before they get to college.

OH how I wish that were true!!! You would not believe some of the papers I have received from students who assure me they were A or B students in high school. . . the "B" must have been for breathing!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

OH how I wish that were true!!! You would not believe some of the papers I have received from students who assure me they were A or B students in high school. . . the "B" must have been for breathing!

No doubt. And this is probably worse in states where the lowest level of English is labeled "college prep," like a lot of Georgia systems.

I'm sure that some of the kids are unprepared in English, but is there evidence that they are competent in science and math and not in English?

I just haven't seen that many kids who could do advanced math and science who couldn't also write clearly if they applied themselves.

(Not that it was fun for them, but just that if you have logical structure and empirical evidence down, AND you are willing to revise and edit, well, it's not rocket science. So if you really are a rocket scientist. . . Sure it's "hard" compared to what comes naturally to them, but not nearly as "hard" as it would be for the average English major to pop over to Fluid Dynamics. )

Doesn't the free market compensation for English majors vs. hard science majors or engineers kind of bear this out too?

[alum]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Oh completely, individual strengths play in.

But, I think that there are more people who have the background skill, aptitude, and interest to be competent English majors than can pull the same grades in engineering. Some of it may be the way the disciplines typically approach grading and instruction.

ETA: or that students typically get better preparation for the skills in English than they do in higher level math and science before they get to college.

Completely anecdotal but I always found the kids who went to independent prep schools and selective parochial schools were almost always excellent writers. I don't know if that was because the student-teacher ration was much smaller and the prep teachers really focus on students writing well vs just trying to prep the class for the state NCLB, the SAT, or the AP exams. My daughter went to a decent public high school and always took AP and Honors for every subject possible. However she usually had 25-30 classmates, even in AP. When she went to the Page School as a junior, her smallest class had 6 students, her largest had 16. Despite the condensed schedule of the Page School (they had shortened classes when Congress was in session), the teachers were much more demanding and seemed to expect more. Her writing vastly improved.