In what circumstances would you support reorganization or closing?

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

agdsquirrelgirl gave an example of her campus, where no one is at total, although it appears that most are within ten of total. i would imagine that these chapters are not in trouble with their headquarters membership wise.
have any of these chapters ever been at total-have all of them been at total? it sounds like panhellenic council might want to review the stats in order to answer those questions. the campus may benefit from total being slightly lowered so that at least some of the chapters are at total. why keep a number that noone can reach, just because that is what is has been?

That's an issue with Panhellenic, but as far as what I wrote goes, that's the current situation.

i do have to ask, since the chapters are so near total, why they did not hold an informal recruitment and reach total-especially the chapter who is one below total? out of 59 girls, someone in the chapter has to know a girl on campus who would love to join and would fit in.

Maybe I forgot to mention, but I thought I did...all hold COBs in the spring. However, again, retention rates are sometimes an issue...as well as girls that are under hours or are forced to leave.

there is one chapter on my daughters campus that is below total.the other chapters are way above. they participated in formal recruitment, got what my daughter says is a great pledge class(although they did not pledge quota), but they have not held any informal recruitment events to recruitment more members. they could conceivably reach total if they put forth a major effort , but they don't. while i don't think the chapter deserves to be closed, i think that they might benefit from a visit from a recruitment expert who could help them approach recruitment from a different angle.

i think that people get complacent or don't know how to operate outside the status quo. perhaps our international officers need to look at this and devise a plan and offer training for those chapters who consistently operate below total. the likelihood that the below total chapters will die off at some time significantly increases as the situation persists and the big get bigger while the small get smaller of maintain their small size. it would also behoove each international office to address the situation while the chapters lack a few members to meet total, before the downward spiral begins and playing catchup is almost out of the question.

On this campus, it is unlikely the groups will die out any time soon. I was just giving an example of chapters that are small in the first place because of the nature of Greek life here and because of the nature of the campus.
Chapters here endure the strain of year round recruiting...it's not really an issue of being complacent but of the PNM pool.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

Since I have never personally been involved in this, does anyone know of a circumstance where a quick-turnaround reorganization or recolonization actually worked?

I cannot speak for them, but Kappa at Georgia Southern went through reorganization this fall (per vote of the chapter, I believe) and it's my understanding they're doing well.

[Glitter650]

our chapter at U Penn. reorganized back in 2005 I believe. They are doing well, despite some upset when it first happened. I belive it was only a year and a half or two full years of being gone before they recruited again.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

but was agd on campus continously or did they take some time off and then came back on?

We were on campus last semester. The existing collegians were given alumna status. There's a thread about it in the Recruitment forum. Two of our international officers went there in person and talked with the women who were being given alumna status. The women were strongly encouraged to immediatley be active alumnae and were given all of the options available to them to do that, including a Junior Circle, which is what we call our alumnae groups for women under 35. They were wonderful women who had been working very hard and they received recognition for that hard work. They were tired and hadn't had a great collegiate experience since they were struggling with numbers for a while.

This is the second Big 10 school where we've done this in the last 6 years. We also did it at the University of Michigan. That chapter is doing alright, but it has been a slower progression. They had their best recruitment year this year and are still building up numbers, but have shown a huge improvement. Different campuses yield different results.

At Michigan State, the Fraternity chose to not immediately recolonize for various reasons. We are renting that house out to either AOPi or ADPi (sorry, I can't remember which at the moment). We are behind Alpha Xi Delta for recolonization and recruitment is down all over the state due to our extremely poor economic situation, so it's difficult to estimate when that recolonization will happen. We are all pulling for it though. It's one of our earlier chapters.

The decision is based on so many factors that it's really hard to make a blanket rule. Campus climate, finances (especially when there is a house to consider), the general state of other NPCs on campus (you can note that several closed at Michigan State within a couple years of each other so that could be a factor), etc. I think a lot of it ends up being HOW it's done, not whether it is done. It is ALWAYS a heart wrenching decision as Heather pointed out earlier.

On the positive side, one of the chapters I oversee in PA (Lafayette) went from 12 to 43 members this year and we are so excited for them. They happened to find a large group of friends who were interested in joining a sorority together and all of them clicked. Since the initial group, those women have brought in more of their friends. On a campus where Total is 75, they will have a better chance to really compete in Formal Recruitment next fall with around 35 members returning to campus. With 12, it's simply overwhelming. We're very excited for them, but they worked hard and kept an open mind too. It has also been hard work for them to integrate so many newer members into the chapter but they are doing a great job.

[FSUZeta]

but if seniors graduate in december or members drop due to hours, or grades or financial reasons and the chapter goes below total, the chapter could pledge new members (up to total) in the spring.

why have pnm numbers declined? has the female enrollment at your college declined?

i am not targeting your campus per se, because as i said i see this at my daughters campus(and other campuses)too. it is tiresome to feel that you are continually planning and holding recruitment events-you get burned out on recruitment. believe me i know! since no one on your campus is at total, it is not as big a deal right now. but i do think that panhellenic should re-evaluate the total figure and possibly lower it.

the chapter i advise went thru cob as a colony and i was with them as an advisor then. they had x amount of girls pledge the colony and our international office wanted us to maintain that number. girls would drop out and we would have to hold a series of recruitment events. they would pledge back up to the number they needed, a few more girls would drop out and we would have to hold some more events. even after the colony was installed as a chapter, they had some girls drop their membership , which put the chapter below total and we had to pledge back up to total. this went on for the first 2 years of their existance, but due to their hard work they have been over total their last two years. they are 4 years old.

now granted, there are only 2 npc sororities on campus and the campus enrollment is growing every year, but fgcu started out as a mainly commuter campus, there is no greek housing or suites or lodges, and both sororities overcame those obstacles. a third sorority will be coming on this fall.

the point i am trying to make is that when sororities first fall below total and do not get back up to total, and this is allowed to continue, they will find themselves falling farther and farther behind in the membership game, while the bigger sororities go that much more over total. then it becomes almost impossible for the smaller chapters to catch up.

[UGAalum94]

Did the reorganization of Alpha Gamma Delta at Ohio State and the reorganization of Kappa at Ga. Southern involve girls going alum while they were still on campus and restarting with a colony picked by an extension team? I'm curious how it could go down so differently than DePauw.

Can you do a re-organization or re-colonization without making the current girls go alum? (I mean, it doesn't seem like the words allow for it, but why couldn't you, in fact, start with the girls you had, rather than from scratch, if they were still going to be on campus anyway?)

Weirdly, I can understand closing the chapter for four years to let everyone graduate and trying to colonize again with a new reputation, but I really hate the idea of dumping the girls that were just recruited in the last few years. It makes it about rejecting them as damaged goods, and that's really distasteful to me. How could it ever communicate anything other than, "If we could only get rid of you, then we can be really cool."

I'm not delusional about what incorporation mean in terms of shared responsibility and costs, but this rhetoric of being businesses is very unattractive. Sure, I know that since the GLOs are incorporated and have costs, members and chapters must meet their financial obligation to the organization. But it shouldn't become about maximizing the money in some way beyond the costs of operation.

I'm not busting on you, Honeychile, but if re-organizations become the wave of the future, national Greek life is done, in my opinion. No one joins a group to be at the mercy of IHQ. They know they are joining a national organization and expect IHQ to serve their needs in living out the sisterhood; they don't regard themselves as the pawns of the ladies at the top. It's also disgusting if you look back on any organization's history and ideals that it would come to that: opening and closing franchises because they weren't profitable enough. No thanks.

[FSUZeta]

wow dee!! i love to hear stories like the osu agds. we alums know how hard it is to restructure/reorganize a chapter successfully-there are so many obstacles to overcome. i hope that they continue their successes!!

good luck to your other chapters(and everyone elses) who are going thru the process right now!

[UGAalum94]

Here's my bad analogy: instead of saying we are businesses, I think we should look for a similarity with churches or charities. (And NO, I don't worship Alpha Gamma Delta)

These groups also have expenses and insurance and are often incorporated, but you'd never hear them say, "Well, membership at that location is low, so we're going to close it and start again. And we'll make sure that none of the old members come to the new place because we don't want the reputation to follow us." Instead, maybe they change leadership at the location and give the group support to make sure that it offers what people actually need to be successful and grow.

Now, I know that GLOs are really just social clubs; I'm not kidding myself that they're that spiritual or altruistic. But surely we offer something other than popularity and image to attract members. There's something at the heart of it, right? Tradition, values, support, community, something authentic, right?

ETA: I want to make it clear that I was working on composing my posts before I was able to read ADGee's. I didn't want anyone to think I was being critical of her efforts. I'm glad those chapters are doing well. I'm glad they looked out for the new alums.

[CZAXOTerp]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Here's my bad analogy: instead of saying we are businesses, I think we should look for a similarity with churches or charities. (And NO, I don't worship Alpha Gamma Delta)

These groups also have expenses and insurance and are often incorporated, but you'd never hear them say, "Well, membership at that location is low, so we're going to close it and start again. And we'll make sure that none of the old members come to the new place because we don't want the reputation to follow us." Instead, maybe they change leadership at the location and give the group support to make sure that it offers what people actually need to be successful and grow.

Actually I know that in many areas, specifically Baltimore where I am from, there have been a number of parishes that have closed due to lack of membership. In some instances parishes have merged w/ others and both "structures" have been kept in use, but the parish communities have been united for #'s purposes sharing staff.
Also I know in many cities Fire houses have been closed for budget and population density reasons- like the churches not a popular move.

[UGAalum94]

Oh, yeah, I understand that churches and charities close locations, but they don't change the status of the people who they served at the previous locations. They are welcome to remain active members of the merged locations.

And I think that with churches and charities, they do have to weigh the lose of the tradition and support of closing a parish or location in the total financial location. No one really expects to dump the current parishioners and come back in the exact same location.

[CZAXOTerp]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Oh, yeah, I understand that churches and charities close locations, but they don't change the status of the people who they served at the previous locations. They are welcome to remain active members of the merged locations.

And I think that with churches and charities, they do have to weigh the lose of the tradition and support of closing a parish or location in the total financial location. No one really expects to dump the current parishioners and come back in the exact same location.

I don't think that a church or charity would ever turn anyone away- they might keep a particular person out of a leadership or public role however.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Did the reorganization of Alpha Gamma Delta at Ohio State and the reorganization of Kappa at Ga. Southern involve girls going alum while they were still on campus and restarting with a colony picked by an extension team? I'm curious how it could go down so differently than DePauw.

Yes. Again, I believe it was a chapter vote to close/reorganize and the Fraternity/House Board chose to reorganize because a new chapter facility had just been built and it made more sense, financially, to reorganize rather than just close.

Again, this is just my understanding of the situation. I cannot speak for that chapter or the Fraternity on actual happenings.

[UGAalum94]

The thread on the Ohio State reorganization in recruitment makes it look like it was a success. It sounds like that national officers worked hard to make sure that they knew exactly what the university would permit and what services they were ready to offer to the new alums.

And this if for FSUZeta, how flexible is total supposed to be? it would make sense to almost have a present figure that automatically adjusted with any changes in the system, like average chapter size, or something.

[AGDee]

Again, I think the key in how the older chapter members are treated when they are made alumnae makes a big difference. To say "We know you've worked so hard and we appreciate the efforts you've made so we want you to enjoy your last year here and not have to do all the work involved in a reorganization. These are the ways we'd love to have you stay involved with the Fraternity. Let us know how we can help you transition into one of these options" and then have actual options for them.. Junior Circle, local Alumnae Chapter, advisor positions at nearby chapters, etc. When you're a chapter of 12 on a campus where Total is 120 (like at our U Mich chapter was in 2000), it's not that fun. Every member is an officer and some hold two offices because there are more officer positions than members. You don't have enough members to have mixers with a fraternity. Everything is expensive because there aren't that many to share the costs. Everyone is required to live in the house all the time. You try to recruit with 12 women when there are 1000 PNMs. How do you even do that? You have no committees or everybody is on every committee. Every member has to participate in every Greek Week event. Building a Homecoming float to compare to theirs with 1/10th of the people? It's exhausting and frustrating.

NPC has a few ways they suggest that can be used to figure Total. They are also suggesting now that it be reviewed annually. Average chapter size is one suggested method. Another is setting Total at the number of the largest chapter at the time. I think there are two other methods but I don't remember them offhand. Personally, I think that if you take the average Quota for the last 4 years and multiply it by 4, that would be a good number, but that's not one of the methods. That would mean that a chapter that took quota and had good retention would be at Total.

It used to seem like such a fixed number that Panhellenic was always afraid to lower it because they might not be able to raise it again. When you reassure them that they can re-evaluate it in a year, they are more comfortable with it. If they have an unusually large recruitment, then they can increase Total. If things tank on campus and nobody goes through, it can be lowered. It's much more flexible than it used to be and I think that's a good thing.

We have a few campuses in my area where Total is way too high and every chapter is 20 women below Total. We have generally encouraged a lowering of Total rather than bugging the chapter about not being at Total. We do look at whether they are competitive with other chapters on campus. If chapter sizes are 23-29 and Total is 45, we know we're on target with the other groups. (University of Toronto is in that situation and just lowered Total for the first time in a decade even though no chapter had ever attained it!)

[UGAalum94]

Thanks for the answers AGDee. I think you are correct in that the heart of the reorg. issue is in how old members are treated. I appreciate the info. on total too.

Is there a reason why one should want total to be on the high end of things? I tend to think that total should be determined in a way that makes it easy to be a total, but I'm probably missing something. If you did the average quota for four years times four, you would have to have perfect retention or do COB, which isn't really a negative but wasn't the norm at the campus I attended. I guess if all chapters were in this same position, there'd be less stigma to COB. (And I guess more incentive for meeting release figures and getting quota additions, too.)