Atheists as members?

[SydneyK]

Originally posted by Strongbeauty
This is especially true if Christianity is used in the rituals...

I forgot my question in regards to this comment...

If someone isn't yet initiated, how do they know to what extent Christianity (or its principles) is in the rituals?

I think our founders would have wanted to accept people with a strong moral compass, not necessarily just spiritual giants. But, I'm just guessing, of course.

[AUDeltaGam]

Originally posted by SydneyK
It has always bothered me when people assume that atheism equals "God-bashing" or satanism or something similar.

I didn't read it as him saying that. He said he didn't mind someone being an athiest, AS LONG as they didn't openly bash God.

Shinerbock, what fraternity are you in?

[KSUViolet06]

Your personal religious beliefs have no bearing over whether or not you will be a good sister.

What I would object to is anyone who finds her religious beliefs superior and puts down the beliefs of others.

[shinerbock]

Yeah thats what I meant. I mean if you're the type of atheist who protests the use of "Under God" in the pledge (AKA Michael Newdow), then yeah, we probably wouldnt be bidding them. But if they respect that those ideals are really important to our fraternity and the huge majority of its members, then I don't see it being an issue.

[Strongbeauty]

Originally posted by enigma_AKA


So, if you're a non-believer or one that just doesn't believe in say--Jesus being the Messiah or baptism being a neccessary part of salvation--then you automatically go against the tenets and ideas of the organization? That you don't believe in murder; that you don't believe in 'the golden rule'; that you don't believe in *most of* the Ten Commandments (the moral codes, basically)?

I'm probably asking this to a troll, but athiests still have moral and ethical values; Muslims and Jews, B'hai believers, Buddhists and Hindus have moral and ethical standards as well, but because they aren't Christian they go against the tenets and ideas of the org? That they violate their own belief system? What are these tenets and ideas of the org?

enigma_AKA

I'm probably asking this to a troll

I am not familiar with the term troll so I will kindly ask you to explain what that means. Furthermore, who said people of other faiths did not have values? I certainly didn't. My point is this... if an organization claims to be founded upon Christian principles, then why would someone who doesn't believe in Christ want to be a part of that. Now that is different from an organization that says we have certain values and principles but does not claim they stem from a particular religion. For instance, if I was to join an org founded on Islamic beliefs and I had to do things that could be even contruded as worshipping Allah (cause clearly my Bible says to shun the appearance of sin), I would not do it. Why? Because I do not serve Allah. That's not to demean anyone, it's just that's not who I serve. Now before you go off about "worshipping" not being a requirement. I have several friends who are Greek and trust if they weren't already in a church, they were by the end of the process. Some even had mandatory Bible studies and such while online.

Now, as far as other people's values. Jewish values and Christian values (as pertaining to the Old Testament, since you brought up the 10 commandments) are very similiar. Buddhist traditions often discuss and encourage peace and unity. This is also seen in Christianity. The question was about someone who is an atheist joining an org with a Christian foundation/values/principles, etc. Even though they have not made it through the process, just the fact that the org chooses to acknowledge and proclaim that means that at some point Jesus will be brought up. If you don't believe their is a God, then you clearly do not believe He had a Son... so again I ask why would you put yourself in that situation and for the org why even bring up Christian principles in the first place if that's not what you want to be known for?

[frathole]

It depends on individual chapter traditions I'm sure.

I got balled at the Scientology house for taking Psych 101.

[kstar]

Originally posted by shinerbock
...if you're the type of atheist who protests the use of "Under God" in the pledge (AKA Michael Newdow)...

Off topic, but my father is the type of Christian who protests the use of "Under G**" and I'm the type of Jew who also protests. Guess what, we were both active and involved members of our respective orgs. Just because someone believes that religion has no place in politics, doesn't mean that they want all religion to be abolished.

On topic: while my house had a Bible study that was open to anyone, it was mainly attended by Baptists. Though, we were known on campus for having a large number of Jewish members. I'm sure we had atheist and agnostic members, though I never went around taking a poll. It simply didn't matter.

[USCTKE]

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
we have initiated felons, athiests, agnostics, religious folk, queers, lesbians, porn stars, fruitcakes...we have no "clause."
Character, reputation...important, and even then sometimes we stub our toes.
Open rush, open arms. open minds

lesbians?

[Erik P Conard]

I inadvertently mentioned lesbians in my long list of folks who
were initiated in my Fraternity. My fault, mea culpa, senior moment, duh. Thanks for correcting! Duh

[ADSigMel]

Originally posted by Strongbeauty

For instance, if I was to join an org founded on Islamic beliefs and I had to do things that could be even contruded as worshipping Allah (cause clearly my Bible says to shun the appearance of sin), I would not do it. Why? Because I do not serve Allah. That's not to demean anyone, it's just that's not who I serve.

Not to bash you or anything (I actually agree with most of what you said), but, just so you know, "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God." It means exactly the same thing and is exactly the same entity. Just like Dieu and Dios and Deo mean "God" in French, Spanish, and Latin, respectively. So, if you're a Christian, you do serve Allah, you just call it something else. Just FYI.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by frathole
I got balled at the Scientology house for taking Psych 101.

LOL!!

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by ADSigMel
Not to bash you or anything (I actually agree with most of what you said), but, just so you know, "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God." It means exactly the same thing and is exactly the same entity. Just like Dieu and Dios and Deo mean "God" in French, Spanish, and Latin, respectively. So, if you're a Christian, you do serve Allah, you just call it something else. Just FYI.

A statement that requires some caveats, I think.

True that "Allah" is Arabic for God (kin to the Hebrew "El"/"Elohim"), so Christians who speak Arabic will use "Allah" where we would say "God."

But to say it is "the same entity" -- a la "Christians and Muslims worship the same God" is a different matter, I think. That falls more under "PC - can't we all get along" that accomplishes little. In my opinion, it actually hinders healthy dialogue that might lead to better relations because it minimizes honestly-held differences in the name of getting along.

Yes, the Christian and Muslim (and Jewish) understanding of God derive from the same sources -- all can be considered Abrahamic faiths. But, just to give one example (albeit a major one) -- Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God. Muslims, while they honor Jesus as a prophet, consider the Christian belief unacceptable. I worship Jesus Christ, along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit -- one God in three persons, but all completely God. My Muslim neighbor, I do not believe, would consider that he worships the same God I do.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally posted by frathole
It depends on individual chapter traditions I'm sure.

I got balled at the Scientology house for taking Psych 101.

The same thing happened to me. They forced me to deactivate before I reached OT 3.

END TRANSMISSION

[AGPhiBete]

My Sorority was founded upon 'Christian Principles', in the sense of the term's meaning in 1904: It is basically taken to mean, loyalty, dedication, high moral standards...

My chapter has members that are Athiests, Agnostics, Orthodox Jews, Jews, Catholics, Christians, Pagans... I don't think a person's religious affiliation should have any bearing on their membership, provided that a given religion is a part of the organizations tenets.

[ADSigMel]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
A statement that requires some caveats, I think.

True that "Allah" is Arabic for God (kin to the Hebrew "El"/"Elohim"), so Christians who speak Arabic will use "Allah" where we would say "God."

But to say it is "the same entity" -- a la "Christians and Muslims worship the same God" is a different matter, I think. That falls more under "PC - can't we all get along" that accomplishes little. In my opinion, it actually hinders healthy dialogue that might lead to better relations because it minimizes honestly-held differences in the name of getting along.

Yes, the Christian and Muslim (and Jewish) understanding of God derive from the same sources -- all can be considered Abrahamic faiths. But, just to give one example (albeit a major one) -- Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God. Muslims, while they honor Jesus as a prophet, consider the Christian belief unacceptable. I worship Jesus Christ, along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit -- one God in three persons, but all completely God. My Muslim neighbor, I do not believe, would consider that he worships the same God I do.

Yes, that's right. I was referring to God the Father, creator of the Universe as being the Allah to which Muslims refer. However, my point wasn't about what "God" means, it was just to say that when Arab Christians worship, they say "Allah," not "God." So, in that sense, the entity that the poster to whom I replied could call her God by the name Allah, and it would not be wrong. I mean, I guess if she really felt like it, she could call her God "Joe-Bob" and it would still be the same thing as long as she personally knows who she is worshipping. But, in purely linguistic terms, "Allah" = "God."