Old-School Greek terms wrong?

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
It appears to me (I will stand corrected if I'm wrong) that this use of language is more of an issue with sororities than fraternities.

I think you're right. Sororities seem to be considerably more PC than fraternities.

Originally posted by DeltAlum


It appears to me (I will stand corrected if I'm wrong) that this use of language is more of an issue with sororities than fraternities.

That's always been my understanding.

However, after reading some of the posts in this thread, I really wasn't aware that fraternities were having to deal with the issue as well.

When I pledged a few years ago, I think it was around the time of the terminology transition. My "pledge" class had the last version of the "Pledge Manual" and we were the last to go through "Frat Ed" with the "VP-FE". The next NM class had NM Education after going through "Recruitment".

I still use both, but it depends on who I'm talking to.

[AEPhiSierra]

My problem with the term "new member" is that "new members", at least in my mind, are not members of my sorority yet. The whole "new member education" period is about preparation for membership. Outside the Greek community I feel these terms can be very confusing and don't see how they are helpful.

On a campus like mine when there were 3 groups (now 2) using the NPC terms and 7 fraternities and local sororities using the old terms I tended to use the old terms. Having our own special jargon for recruitment when everyone else is using the old terms and the general public understands what they mean seems almost pretencious

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by AEPhiSierra
My problem with the term "new member" is that "new members", at least in my mind, are not members of my sorority yet.

I agree. I didn't consider myself to be a "new member" of my sorority until I'd gone through our initiation.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I agree that there's not really anything wrong with the old terms, but there are plenty of people who disagree, so, with that in mind, I would general try to use the new-school terms in formal settings or around people like your national officers, your Greek life advisor, etc.

Isnt the trouble stem from the Problem that We have shot our own selves in the foot so to speak?

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I remember on my campus it was a big deal that DZ's had "Baby Turtles" and Phi Sigma Sigma had "Baby Penguins" and Chi O's had "Baby Owls"... the Greek life advisor threw a fit the year I rushed and said there couldn't be "baby" anything because it was condecending. Some people just get ridculous about it.

Isnt that the truth! But see My Previous Post. Who did it unto them selves?

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by OTW
That's always been my understanding.

However, after reading some of the posts in this thread, I really wasn't aware that fraternities were having to deal with the issue as well.

When I pledged a few years ago, I think it was around the time of the terminology transition. My "pledge" class had the last version of the "Pledge Manual" and we were the last to go through "Frat Ed" with the "VP-FE". The next NM class had NM Education after going through "Recruitment".

I still use both, but it depends on who I'm talking to.

OTW, beleive Me Fraternitys do as well.

I first Heard the Term "New Associate" in a little meeting the Night before We as a Local were Colonized in 1966.

I argued the Pledge vs New Associate until I was blue in the face. I was then told that it was going to happen. Remember, LXA was the First to Outlaw Pledge Hazing in Greekdom.

Pledge I was told gave a Negative conotation which reverted to Hazing.

Yes, The PC Terms as They Have become unlovingly despise are fact.

But, either We go along with it or die.

We are continually under the gun no matter how much good each GLO does.

[PhoenixAzul]

This has been a big issue on our campus. We've had 2 greek advisors in a row who come from the NPC tradition, and while they've done great things, there can still be a tussle over the terminology we use. The use of PNM and COB (which is NOT COB! it's snap bidding if anything) and recruitment and blah blah blah has caught on in Panhel terms, but on the individual level, we have a hard time using those terms because it lacks the tradition here, and I have a feeling that it will take a long time to break the tradition of "pledge", because new member implies something completely different in our community.

[gphiangel624]

I don't think there's reason to get offended by any of the terms used. I'm working to alter the language I use depending on which individual chapter or council I'm referring to whenever possible. For example, if I'm working with an NPC chapter, I'll most definitely use "PNM," "new member," "recruitment," and "new member period," but I still occasionally slip with the infrequent "rush" or "pledge" term. No one ever gets too offended. And I find it funny that although the newer terminology has been circling our NPC chapters for over 6 years now, I still meet freshman students who use "rush" and "pledge" and have no clue what the new terms refer to.

Our IFC chapters typically still use rush and pledge, but have been slowly moving to recruitment and new member. Again, no one seems to take offense to any of the terms, new or old.

With our NPHC chapters, I've come to use the term "intake," and when I use that term around anyone who doesn't know anything about NPHC chapters (don't get me wrong, I'm no expert- but I'm learning so I can better serve all my students), they almost always need explanation and the IFC and NPC chapter members usually think that's a great, neutral, "non-hazing" term.

Where we start to see some dissent on my campus is when some of our Multicultural Greek Council (MGC) orgs use the term "rush" or "pledge." A lot of the NPC and IFC chapters that have been around for a long time (or not in some cases) will instantly report these chapters for hazing and when we ask for evidence, all we get is "they're rushing people and calling them pledges." That's when I get to be an impromptu educator and I love the looks on the students faces when I tell them that their way is not the only way.

UNLDelt said it well- a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet

[33girl]

Originally posted by gphiangel624
With our NPHC chapters, I've come to use the term "intake," and when I use that term around anyone who doesn't know anything about NPHC chapters (don't get me wrong, I'm no expert- but I'm learning so I can better serve all my students), they almost always need explanation and the IFC and NPC chapter members usually think that's a great, neutral, "non-hazing" term.

The thing is though (and NPHCers please correct me if I'm wrong) "intake" is something completely different than the NIC or NPC rushing and pledging (or recruitment and new membering) process. It's not really an interchangeable term.

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by dzrose93
I agree. I didn't consider myself to be a "new member" of my sorority until I'd gone through our initiation.

See, that's what I think too. When I joined DZ, I was technically a "new member" because it was right after all that PC stuff started, but in my mind, I was a pledge. To me, the term "new member" implies someone who has just been initiated. Someone who hasn't been initiated is not a member yet, new or otherwise.

[alum]

quote:
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Originally posted by AEPhiSierra
My problem with the term "new member" is that "new members", at least in my mind, are not members of my sorority yet.
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Originally posted by dzrose93
I agree. I didn't consider myself to be a "new member" of my sorority until I'd gone through our initiation.

At the United States Military Acadamy at West Point, the incoming freshmen are known as New Cadets for their 6 weeks of Cadet Basic Training aka Beast Barracks. All mail must be addressed New Cadet John Doe... Once they complete CBT, they are recognized as Cadets but they are still definitely plebes until graduation day of the following year.

Back in the olden days when I was a pledge, I always felt that I was a full member of my chapter. The new terms make our GLOs sound more like corporations than social organizations.

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by alum
At the United States Military Academy at West Point, the incoming freshmen are known as New Cadets for their 6 weeks of Cadet Basic Training aka Beast Barracks. All mail must be addressed New Cadet John Doe... Once they complete CBT, they are recognized as Cadets but they are still definitely plebes until graduation day of the following year.

Fourth class year for the cadinks and middies at USMA, USNA and USAFA is considerably watered down from days of old... 'Beast Barracks'/Plebe Summer/Basic Cadet Training hasn't changed much but cadets and midshipmen are usually recognized by March instead of waiting until 'June Week'.

Fourth classmen (the military academy version of freshmen) names:

USMA/USNA/USCGA/USMMA - Plebes
USAFA - Doolies, four-degrees
VMI - Rats
Norwich - Rooks
Citadel - Knobs
Texas A&M - Fish

[Tom Earp]

In a meeting today at THE PITT. (Ks), with two ELCs (Educational Leadership Consultants (Old Days Traveling Secretarys), LXA is using:

Recruitment, Not Pledgeing.
New Associates, Not Pledgeing.
Bidding, Not Pinning.

In 4 days, these two Young Men an Brothers have Recruited 13 New Associates and have 4 days more to go. They are very pleased with the New Possibles and told us many came from other GLOs on campus and were unhappy with the hazing that was involved and left them.

This a total rebuilding of My Chapter there and without IHQ help, We would be closed as We should have been.

Anotehr Well known Fraterity that was trying to make a push to come on campus did not have this kind of backing and have gone into the dust.

Old School Terms, yes, they are going by the way side just for the conotations that they bring.

[alum]

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
Fourth class year for the cadinks and middies at USMA, USNA and USAFA is considerably watered down from days of old... 'Beast Barracks'/Plebe Summer/Basic Cadet Training hasn't changed much but cadets and midshipmen are usually recognized by March instead of waiting until 'June Week'.

Fourth classmen (the military academy version of freshmen) names:

USMA/USNA/USCGA/USMMA - Plebes
USAFA - Doolies, four-degrees
VMI - Rats
Norwich - Rooks
Citadel - Knobs
Texas A&M - Fish

\\\\


Even at USAFA, they are still officially plebes. The names such as beanheads, smacks, and doolies are considered derogatory and are not official names to call the fourth-classmen. I don't presume to speak for any or all the US academies but a few of them have "nicknames" for each class. We won't get into what each academy calls the other academies....