How would you have handled this?

[lovelyivy84]

I am so sad that you felt so alienated by that question. In their defense they probably never thought about it that way (they have never had to). I have been around people of European descent quite often, and participated in countless discussions of their ethnicity. I guess, like I pointed out, that my take is different because I come from an immigrant culture myself that elected to come to America. So for me, the question is just another chance to share all the thiings I love about where I'm from.

I feel like NYC is one big conversation about ethnicity actually. It's just one of the basic questions people ask here, to EVERYONE - who are you and "what" are you. I know a ton of people who come here from other places and are completely offended by it when they first encounter the question, but that's just how it is. They have to get used to it I guess, because everyone asks. I guess it would never occur to me to be offended by this question because I am so used to it!Most people I know, regardless of culture, are something- they are African, West Indian, Hispanic, Italian, Irish, Czech, British, mutts, and the list goes on (Actually, at University Black American students used to comment on how they were such a minority within the minority- most of the black students were of African, Caribbean or Latino descent).

I guess I just want you not to take it to heart so much, as hard as I know that must be to do

As far as getting along with coworkers, I get along with everyone and talk to EVERYONE. As you can see from this post, if you give me half a chacne I WILL tell you my life's story, lol. It's really just my nature- can't help it.

Originally posted by Bamboozled
I thank you all for your insightful repsonses. It feels so good to know I'm not alone. Like I said, I had never be asked that type of question in such an environment, so it just really bothered me. It's sort of like a rapist asking a rape victim how she feels about rape.

I agree about keeping your work life separate from your private life. I almost never go to lunch/dinner/cocktail hours with my co-workers. That's why this time, I kind of had to. We were celebrating the completion of a project and they tried to accomodate me by going somewhere on my side of town. Believe me, if I could have come up with a good excuse quick enough, I wouldn't have gone.

When I first started working here, I was accused of being anti-social because I declined an invitation to go to lunch EVERYDAY with a group of girls who do just that. They sit around and gossip and talk about what was on TV last night. That's just not my forte. Another co-worker asks me almost everyday to join him for lunch. He told me today he was going to ask me everyday until I said yes. I told him, "Don't do that. When I want to go, I'll let you know." Like Soror Ideal said, I'm not here to make friends. We most likely wouldn't be friends if we didn't work together, so why try to force it because we do? Honestly, I just want to be left alone to do what I'm here to do. I don't invite you to any of my private functions, so please don't feel obligated to invite me to yours.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate my co-workers. I actually kind of like some of them. It's just that I don't want to reveal that private part of myself. I mean damn, can I keep something for myself? Again, like Soror Ideal said, even if you get a little, they just want more adn more. I actually enjoy attending the Christmas party and other functions throughout the year that foster better working relationships. I enjoy getting to talk to people and see them outside of the work environment. Isn't that enough?
Have any of you read the book Shifting (thanks Soror lovelyivy)? The authors kind of touch on this subject.

[lovelyivy84]

Just wanted to thank Soror Bamboozled for starting this thread. It's been a LONG time since I saw anything on GC that really made me sit down and think about what I wanted to post...

[Glitterkitty]

I seriously doubt the people you work with were trying to hurt your feelings or make you uncomfortable. Many people do know where their family is from-Jamaica, Bahamas, English and African. I mean, it's not out of the question that you could know some of your family history. Some poeple change their last names after doing research of their family tree. I don't think your feelings are invalid at all, but I hope they weren't trying to make you feel bad. My really good friend is black and she is British, accent and all. She does know where her mother's family came from, but not so much her fathers.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Glitterkitty
I seriously doubt the people you work with were trying to hurt your feelings or make you uncomfortable. Many people do know where their family is from-Jamaica, Bahamas, English and African. I mean, it's not out of the question that you could know some of your family history. Some poeple change their last names after doing research of their family tree. I don't think your feelings are invalid at all, but I hope they weren't trying to make you feel bad. My really good friend is black and she is British, accent and all. She does know where her mother's family came from, but not so much her fathers.

I agree with you. I stated previously that I'm almost certain that the question wasn't asked maliciously. I believe I was just being included in the conversation. I harbor no ill feelings towards any of these co-workers. The question was just a bit of a reality check for me.

I also understand that a lot of people are able to trace their family trees. I know my family has attempted to do so, but we haven't been able to get much further than Mississippi, because as we're all aware, detailed records were not kept for slaves. Most paper trails consist of bills of sale and those didn't indicate where someone came from. So, I envy all of you who can actually go back and trace your roots. I hope that someday, I will have a better picture.

And Soror lovelyivy, you are so right that ethnicity is a common topic in NY. I've been asked several times what I am (most people think I look Ethiopian, so maybe that's a start) but those are usually "black" people wondering what kind of "black" I am, lol. I guess it bothered me this time because of the circumstances. At least now, I'm better prepared for the next time it comes up.

[Steeltrap]

Good morning all.

As promised, I did bring Having It All? into my office today to post about the corporate space idea. It's on page 41, BTW, for those who have the book.

Eventually, I (Chambers) learned the importance of creating what one executive in the Catalyst study calls a "corporate space;" a place where I could be personable, without necessarily getting personal.
It's a idea that many black women resist.
"I've had people in my office that have said, 'I ain't gonna do that s***. I'm good at what I do, but I'm not going to sit down and have a cup of coffee with them,'" one senior executive told Catalyst. "They say, 'I am not going to chitchat about what I did over the weekend with them.' I say, if you don't they're going to make up stories.
"Don't look it as an infringement on your private space. Create your corporate space. You create a corporate space by giving them the image you want them to have, not necessarily what reality is."

Catalyst is a national nonprofit group that studies women in business. The study that Ms. Chambers refers to on page 40 of Having It All? was published in 1999 and it examined women of color in corporate management.

[Kimmie1913]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
Good morning all.

As promised, I did bring Having It All? into my office today to post about the corporate space idea. It's on page 41, BTW, for those who have the book.

Eventually, I (Chambers) learned the importance of creating what one executive in the Catalyst study calls a "corporate space;" a place where I could be personable, without necessarily getting personal.
It's a idea that many black women resist.
"I've had people in my office that have said, 'I ain't gonna do that s***. I'm good at what I do, but I'm not going to sit down and have a cup of coffee with them,'" one senior executive told Catalyst. "They say, 'I am not going to chitchat about what I did over the weekend with them.' I say, if you don't they're going to make up stories.
"Don't look it as an infringement on your private space. Create your corporate space. You create a corporate space by giving them the image you want them to have, not necessarily what reality is."

Catalyst is a national nonprofit group that studies women in business. The study that Ms. Chambers refers to on page 40 of Having It All? was published in 1999 and it examined women of color in corporate management.

I think the corporate space idea is dead on. The reality is we always want to be judge by the content of our character but we are judged more by the quality of our working relationships. We are penalized far too frequently for the lack of relationships with coworkers than I think we admit to our selves. It is not always about sucking up but when you have to fairly competitive choices, people are going to go with who they feel like they know, who they feel trusts them a little by letting them in. We as Black women want to go to work do our job and leave and that is not what will get you to the top.

I have a corporate space at work. I eat lunch with the Black women here who are my friends some of the time and with the white women who are my work associates at others. They know some of my hobbies and here some of the things I do on the weekend. My friends here know more. They rest get enough for them to feel like they know me with out me having to really let them know me. It is enough to sustain a non-work related conversation and it makes a big difference.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
You create a corporate space by giving them the image you want them to have, not necessarily what reality is."

I don't like that sentence. At all.

I'm not saying I'm not personable; I am. I chat. *A LITTLE BIT* But I am not going out with them unless we are "like that."

It happened at work today. I'm temping for a nonprofit and one of the interns is leaving today. So they are (as we speak) having a goodbye lunch for her. I didn't want to go, so I didn't go. I thought EVERYBODY in the office was going. So I come back from the bank, and the other Black lady is still in the office. She said she didn't want to be bothered so she didn't go. So I started thinking, the only people that didn't go were the Black women. Why is that? But I guess Chambers hit it on the head.

This is an idea that is going to take some getting used to. Some people you click with off the jump. Some people you don't.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by Ideal08
Please do post more, because people do make assumptions about me and it gets on my nerves. I am one of the nicest most compassionate people that I know, yet people think that I'm mean and cold. I let people in a little bit, but my little bit is not always enough for them. They always want more, and I don't have any more to give. I hate to hear people say "oh, don't be like that." Don't be like what? Because I don't desire to go out with you EVERY WEEK or because I don't invite you to lunch with me and my FRIENDS or because I didn't tell you about something personal in my life? Don't be like what? Cuz I'm not going to be phony EVER. It's like no one wants to stay in the little box marked "COWORKER," everyone wants to move into the"FRIENDS" box or the "ASSOCIATE" box. Why we can't just be coworkers? Why can't we go to lunch once in a while. Why can't we become friends if that is what is meant to be. It doesn't have to be forced.

I feel ya! I feel ya!

I say: Get a dayum life (outside of "your" job). That is the problem around here. These people want to work 5 days a week together and party 7 days a week. Ummmmmmmmm, I don't want to see you THAT much! I have other things to do.... Then you get labeled as "acting funny" etc etc wudeva!

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Kimmie1913
I think the corporate space idea is dead on. The reality is we always want to be judge by the content of our character but we are judged more by the quality of our working relationships. We are penalized far too frequently for the lack of relationships with coworkers than I think we admit to our selves. It is not always about sucking up but when you have to fairly competitive choices, people are going to go with who they feel like they know, who they feel trusts them a little by letting them in. We as Black women want to go to work do our job and leave and that is not what will get you to the top.

I have a corporate space at work. I eat lunch with the Black women here who are my friends some of the time and with the white women who are my work associates at others. They know some of my hobbies and here some of the things I do on the weekend. My friends here know more. They rest get enough for them to feel like they know me with out me having to really let them know me. It is enough to sustain a non-work related conversation and it makes a big difference.

Kimmie, I agree with what you're saying. However, a line is drawn when co-workers take it to another level. There's nothing wrong with me sharing with someone that my boyfriend and I went to the Poconos for the weekend, but that's not enough for some people. They want to know about the sex that was had. That's just totally inappropriate. As a black woman, I'll admit that I'm probably even more careful about what I discuss at work. We're already seen as oversexed, promiscuous, obnoxious, unintelligent, loud mouths and I feel it is my duty to not further perpetuate that stereotype. I'm also not naive enough to think that once I do let my guard down, that there's not somebody just waiting to take advantage of that.

I also want to clarify something else. For me, this isn't a black or white issue. Nosey, harrassing black employees are just as annoying as nosey, harrassing white ones and I treat them all the same. I really do enjoy most of my co-workers and have no problem chatting with them about trivial things. I've been in the corporate world long enough to know how to play the game. It's when people get comfortable and step outside of what is acceptable in the corporate world that is a problem. And as I said before, once you let them know a little about you, they want to know EVERYTHING about you. I think if you're a generally quiet, cordial person, interests are sparked even more and people are just DYING to learn more about you.

I don't mind going out with my co-workers every once in a while and I attend all the parties/dinners/functions that we have. I'm just not going to be the one going out for a beer after work 3 times a week. If that makes me an angry black woman, than so be it.

[Steeltrap]

^^
Oh, hell, no. Sex life inquiries are most inappropriate, no matter what the race of the questioner. I'm sorry, Soror, that you had to go through that.

[StrangeFruit]

I overstand the corporate space idea, but it definitely is something that I will have to work on. The September issue of Black Enterprise Magazine cover story talks about how black women reached the "top." I didn't read the entire thing yet, but it did mention networking and/or creating relationships.

My mother always told me, "Go to work, Do your work, keep your mouth shut, get your check, go home, cash your check and go do all over again the next day."
Although I understand where she's coming from I think it hindered(s) my growth potential. My mother to this day holds onto to this philosophy. She's successful and always on her toes, but from what she tells me, they don't really care for her b/c she black, female, smart and always a step ahead of them. She doesn't do the baby showers, bridal showers, religious witnessing at the job, etc. She basically goes to work, does her job, gets the check, goes home, travels all over the world, and goes back the next day and do all over again.

But she recently expressed to me that that may not be the right or best thing to do.

We need learn and know the office politics and the BS. It can only help us (benefit us) in the long-run.

I know when I "played the game" to a degree, my situation was better than when I didn't play the game.

I always equated "playing the game" or "corporate space" as selling out or conforming and that wasn't going to me (after all I'm ms. pro-black, daughter of angela davis-joke), but we have to be a part of the corporate space. Our journey is to find a way to do that without loosing who we are or feeling that we're being fake or at least that's my journey.

I'll step down now.

Peace & Luv yall.

[Bamboozled]

Kimmie's comments sparked another question:

Do you think that as black men and women we are required more than our white peers to appear "personable"? If Becky and I decline to go have a beer after work the same number of times, are our "people skills" judged differently? I believe so. All of a sudden I'm disagreeable and not a team player. On the other hand, Becky is probably just busy or has a family to tend to.

I think that as black people, especially black women, we are judged unfairly from the door. We're expected to have attitudes and to be confrontational. We go in having to prove otherwise. It's tiring. I don't want to be "on" all the time and when I'm at work, I have to be. I don't want to feel obligated to spend time with my co-workers outside of work if I don't want to, but unfortunately, it's a bullet we all have to bite. Sometimes I feel like I should just put on my tapping shoes and dance a jig and maybe everyone will be happy.

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by Bamboozled
Kimmie's comments sparked another question:

Do you think that as black men and women we are required more than our white peers to appear "personable"? If Becky and I decline to go have a beer after work the same number of times, are our "people skills" judged differently? I believe so. All of a sudden I'm disagreeable and not a team player. On the other hand, Becky is probably just busy or has a family to tend to.

I think that as black people, especially black women, we are judged unfairly from the door. We're expected to have attitudes and to be confrontational. We go in having to prove otherwise. It's tiring. I don't want to be "on" all the time and when I'm at work, I have to be. I don't want to feel obligated to spend time with my co-workers outside of work if I don't want to, but unfortunately, it's a bullet we all have to bite. Sometimes I feel like I should just put on my tapping shoes and dance a jig and maybe everyone will be happy.

Sorry, Soror, I don't see you putting on tapping shoes.

But I would agree with that. I'm very mellow personally, and sometimes I feel like I have to be on. It's tiresome.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
^^
Oh, hell, no. Sex life inquiries are most inappropriate, no matter what the race of the questioner. I'm sorry, Soror, that you had to go through that.

I agree... most inappropriate. I honestly think that this white, male co-worker, whom I don't know very well at all, wouldn't have asked me that if I wasn't a single, black female. Again, I think it goes back to the whole stereotype of black women. Now I'm getting all into my business, but I was actually thinking about leaving my job last week. A different, white, male co-worker straight up asked me if I would have an affair with him. Not once, but twice. He's one of the directors here. He's always made semi-inappropriate comments to me, and I was always very uncomfortable around him, but this took the cake. I won't go into all the details, but just know I felt as if I had done something to lead him on, when in reality, I've only been cordial to the man. My father thought I should report it right away, but I didn't because it would be my word against his and who do you think would be believed? And all this was before I was asked the question that sparked this entire thread. So, as you see, I've been dealing with a lot at work lately. I keep telling people I work in the Twilight Zone.

[Bamboozled]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
Sorry, Soror, I don't see you putting on tapping shoes.

Actually, Soror, I was just sitting here cracking up at envisioning myself with some tap shoes on, dancing a jig. HILARIOUS.