Fahrenheit 9/11

[honeychile]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Not to split hairs, but the correct term is "cinematographer".

LOL - I went back and forth on what the correct term was, and I thought someone would correct me if I was wrong!


Look, I'm not out to cause division, or say that I'm right and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. And, if there is a way that I can see this movie without putting money in MM's pocket, I will. BUT!!! Please don't be naive and think that it's not political. MM has said time and time and time again that his purpose was to get President Bush out of the White House. Last Friday's USA Today (hardly what I would consider a conservative paper!) had not one, but several articles concerning this very topic.

This is one article: USA Today and one quote from it:
"Such criticism focuses on a segment in which Moore suggests that 24 bin Laden family members and 118 other Saudis were improperly allowed to leave the USA by air soon after the 9/11 attacks. Critics say the film implies that the Saudis left while civil aviation was still grounded. In fact, commercial flying had resumed, and the FBI had screened many of the Saudis.

Joanne Doroshow, an associate producer of the film, says the sequence is 'somewhat confusing, admittedly.'"

That's the associate producer of F911, admitting that things are out of sequence, people!

And from Michael Moore himself: ''I would like to see Mr. Bush removed from the White House,'' he said Sunday on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos. Yes, George Stephanopoulos - from the Clinton Cabinet.

There's a somewhat crude expression about not pissing on my leg and telling me that it's raining - and I personally feel that Michael Moore is pissing on a lot of impressionable young people's legs.

[lyrica9]

Originally posted by honeychile

There's a somewhat crude expression about not pissing on my leg and telling me that it's raining - and I personally feel that Michael Moore is pissing on a lot of impressionable young people's legs.

so those who have the same views, or who believe a lot of the footage in this movie are automatically young and impressionable?

the people sitting behind us in the theater were a couple who looked to be in their 70-80s and they were cheering right along with the rest of the crowd.

so he wants bush out of the white house and that automatically invalidates the theories and ideas presented in his movie?

i dont think he's ever pretended that he was for bush, or that he wanted bush to stay in the white house, so that's no news.
granted, some clips in the film were edited to his liking, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of this information is valid and factual.

the same could be said for the current administration. they want bush to stay in office, and they only release things they want to release in the fashion that they choose to help their cause.

[swissmiss04]

I think someone would have to be crazy to not believe that this movie is political. And equally crazy to believe that Moore doesn't have an agenda. Some may agree with his agenda, others not. However, if it's true that he's stretching the truth to promote the agenda, it totally destroys his credibility. Besides, truth is always stranger than fiction. The truth in and of itself would have provided ample fodder for him, so there was no need to go any further than that.

(Glad I could be of help to you, honeychile )

[lyrica9]

how could someone not see that it is political?!
silly people...

[honeychile]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
I think someone would have to be crazy to not believe that this movie is political. And equally crazy to believe that Moore doesn't have an agenda. Some may agree with his agenda, others not. However, if it's true that he's stretching the truth to promote the agenda, it totally destroys his credibility. Besides, truth is always stranger than fiction. The truth in and of itself would have provided ample fodder for him, so there was no need to go any further than that.

(Glad I could be of help to you, honeychile )

Lyrica9, swissmiss04 does sum up what I was saying, very well!

The footage IS probably valid - but even MM's assistant admits that it's manipulated. And granted, each administration puts its own spin on what happens at any given time.

But that last line is just wonderful: "The truth in and of itself would have provided ample fodder for him, so there was no need to go any further than that."

Amen!

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by honeychile
MM has said time and time and time again that his purpose was to get President Bush out of the White House.

Yes but, if people would see this film and how Bush handled everything from 9-11 to the war in Iraq, a lot of people will be agreeing with MM.

***

I hate the people who say that many young people who watch this film don't know much about politics and are easy to sway. I think a lot of young people are more informed than society gives us credit for.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by LeslieAGD
Yes but, if people would see this film and how Bush handled everything from 9-11 to the war in Iraq, a lot of people will be agreeing with MM.

yea.. those first few moments of footage after Dubya was told about the 9/11 attacks were priceless.

I'm sure he probably wasn't sure what to do, because even I wouldn't know what to do if I were in his position, but to just sit there with a curious george look on his face made ya wonder..

[damasa]

Originally posted by honeychile

There's a somewhat crude expression about not pissing on my leg and telling me that it's raining - and I personally feel that Michael Moore is pissing on a lot of impressionable young people's legs.

The majority of people that were in the theater when I went to see this movie Friday were actually older people. There weren't that many younger individuals in the crowd that night.

I'm also very tired of the "young and impressionable" bs argument because young people can be very informed. And to be honest I don't think they are at a greater risk of having their legs pissed on than anyone else who isn't "young."

Lastly, if you haven't seen the movie you should go check it out before you continue to bash it (this is to everyone). No matter the politics behind it or the agenda it tries to push just suck it up and go see it.

[Rudey]

As if a few minutes after 9/11 changed the world.
As if people would have responded better had they been in his shoes but really weren't.
As if he intentionally wanted to harm our nation and its citizens.

-Rudey

[DZHBrown]

I definitely won't be seeing it. It's just propaganda against Bush and Republicans and general and I have no interest in seeing that. I can't believe they even use the word documentary to describe it. Yes, the event happened. But I find it hard to believe that someone as petty and absurd as Michael Moore didn't skew the details a bit to paint a horrible picture of Bush. If someone could have prevented 9/11, don't you think they would have? Regardless of what party a politician is in, I do not think they would just let something like that happen.

[cuaphi]

Originally posted by Rudey
As if a few minutes after 9/11 changed the world.
As if people would have responded better had they been in his shoes but really weren't.
As if he intentionally wanted to harm our nation and its citizens.

-Rudey

I agree. I am by no means of fan of President Bush. I do however accept the argument that he was attempting to look calm for everyone involved and that 7 minutes was not crucial.

I also thought that while some of the footage, particulary of the war going on overseas was shocking and informative the film as a whole was no more than propaganda. The editing was not biased, it was sensationalist. Many, many aricles including the one honeychile have pointed out that several things Michael Moore cites aren't true. One example is the assertion that Saddam Hussein and his regime had never killed an American.

Furthermore, I thought a lot of things in the film were just gratituous of Michael Moore, like the driving around reading the Patriot Act, asking congressmen to send their children to war, endless footage of the mom who lost her son. I kinda felt like I was watching lowest common denominator manipulation. I went to a Henry Rollins spoken word a couple of months ago. I thought Henry gave an intellectual speech on the Iraqi conflict and had more things to say that I'd never heard about like The Soldier of Truth and the things she'd said about the real reason for the Iraqi invasion. All I got from Michael Moore is that there were no weapons of mass destruction, we were over there for oil. I already knew that.

[Munchkin03]

I'm not going to say anything about the movie until I see it.

As far as Bush staying with the kids on 9/11, I think it was actually appropriate. I think if he had left suddenly, it would have freaked the kids out. Besides, it was a children's book--even for him, it wouldn't have taken too long to finish.

[Rudey]

At the end of the day nobody is a saint. You line my pockets with gold and I will talk Democrat this, Democrat that. Moore makes money from this. This isn't him being a saint.

I think people should just buy a ticket to another movie at the same theatre and then see it. That way you pay for a movie and he doesn't get the royalty so you don't support him. Of course the liberals who do support his work can do what they want but that's not advice for them.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Apparantley the movie made more this weekend than any other film -- $21 million. That's more than "Bowling for Columbine" made in its entire run.

There's no question there is political motivation here. Seems like just about everything is politically motivated at the moment. I think it's a little unfortunate to call it a "documentary" which implies (at least to me) unbiased journalism.

I think most of us know how creative editing, writing and sound can be manipulated. Remember the debate before "Sorority Life" on MTV?

Neither candidate's organization has been particularly upstanding in this Presidential race. I'm pretty tired of both sides.

This is not to infer that Moore is part of the Kerry Campaign, but rather someone with strong beliefs and the vehicle to deliver them.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by honeychile
...And, if there is a way that I can see this movie without putting money in MM's pocket, I will.

You could download it off the internet

Please note, I DO NOT Condone stealing