Girls with ADD

[swissmiss04]

Originally posted by decadence
I'd thought it was a problem with norephineprine (a neurochemical) and/or its precursor dopa /dopamine? The general points tally with what I'd heard; apart from the glucose issue.Then their dosage was probably wrong, presuming a correct diagnosis. There may be overdiagnosis of ADHD as there may be underdiagnosis. But this does not affect the validity of a diagnosis which is done correctly.

There are a few causes for ADHD:
Brain structure, which influences temperament.

The function of chemicals in the brain that help regulate attention and activity (dopamine and norepinephrine).

Abnormal function of the prefrontal cortical lobe that causes problems with attention and impulse control. (Glucose uptake)

There are also environmental factors to consider, such as exposure to toxins, nutrition, and lifestyle habits.

Ritalin at any dosage level will bring about some drowsiness, insomnia, change in appetite, skin problems, and nervousness. It's a drug designed to affect the mind and it can't be expected to work 100% side effect-free.

In children especially, Ritalin is overprescribed. In adults, it really depends on the behavior pattern and its duration to determine whether or not Ritalin is an appropriate course of action.

It is not not not not a willpower issue. There are some kids out there with discipline problems that get labelled ADD/ADHD, incorrectly, of course. For someone who genuinely has it, it has nothing to do w/ willpower. Will we all please join this century now?

[decadence]

Originally posted by Heather:There are a few causes for ADHD: Brain structure, which influences temperament.

I'd heard studies showing the brains of those with ADHD are typically 2-4% smaller in size than others. barring the very rare cases where it seems to have arisen after head trauma later in life, I'm guessing that's what you are referring to.

The function of chemicals in the brain that help regulate attention and activity (dopamine and norepinephrine). Abnormal function of the prefrontal cortical lobe that causes problems with attention and impulse control. (Glucose uptake)

Haven't heard of this glucose thing, I'll look into it - are there any particular studies?

There are also environmental factors to consider, such as exposure to toxins, nutrition, and lifestyle habits.

This has been largely and completely debunked. Very young children with food allergies may be affected, but as far as nutrition/sugar being a cause or changing diet helping, it's generally held that unless the dietary improvements involve grinding in coffee and sprinkling on speed, that it won't help. ;-). That said, a healthy diet is good for everyone.
As for Ritalin, it's been around 40-50 years and is still popular, there are alternatives too (Adderall XR, Concerta etc) including non-amphetamine based (Strattera etc).

[swissmiss04]

Originally posted by decadence
I'd heard studies showing the brains of those with ADHD are typically 2-4% smaller in size than others. barring the very rare cases where it seems to have arisen after head trauma later in life, I'm guessing that's what you are referring to.Haven't heard of this glucose thing, I'll look into it - are there any particular studies?This has been largely and completely debunked. Very young children with food allergies may be affected, but as far as nutrition/sugar being a cause or changing diet helping, it's generally held that unless the dietary improvements involve grinding in coffee and sprinkling on speed, that it won't help. ;-). That said, a healthy diet is good for everyone.
As for Ritalin, it's been around 40-50 years and is still popular, there are alternatives too (Adderall XR, Concerta etc) including non-amphetamine based (Strattera etc).

It's not just a size issue, it's a structure issue as well. I'm not sure how much head trauma figures into ADHD.
As far as glucose goes, check out this article. It also discusses the impact of nutrition. But yes, a healthy diet is good for everyone regardless of any disorders.
When I get home tonight (need to go to work) I will look up more info about Adderall, Concerta, and Strattera.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
It's not just a size issue, it's a structure issue as well.

Yeah, supposedly there's less blood flow and activity in the prefrontal cortex. That's one of the reasons why stims give a paradoxal effect on ADHD people.

[MysticCat]

I'm coming in late to this, but all I can say is take your child to someone who knows what they are doing, which is rarely going to be the pediatrician. (Not to be a slam on pediatricians -- it's just that this sort of a thing is really a specialty all to itself.) There is a spectrum of disorders that can result in AD(H)D-type symptoms. AD(H)D is only one.

Our son also showed many of the classic symptoms of ADHD from an early age, except for that fact that none of his hyperactivity/inattention got in the way of his life skills or learning, as per the diagnostic tools. (Other kid's learning, perhaps, but not his own.) He was eventually diagnosed with sensory integration disorder, which presents many of the same symptoms but very different challenges. Simply put, his brain did not process sensory stimulation properly and he has to "re-program" his brain to do so. As a result of the improper processing, some sensory input doesn't register as strongly as it should, while other input overloads him. The result is mental and physical disorganization that makes sitting still and paying attention (and lots of other things) hard to do. But with the right therapy (and no medicine), we have seen lots of progress and just finished a very successful first year of school.

You also have to take the lead with teachers and principles. Don't make excuses for a child --"you need to go easy on her because" -- but be an advocate for your child. "She is a smart kid with a lot of potential, but she has some challenges, and this is what we have found will help her and help you day to day." We were really fortunate to have a kindergarten teacher who would go the extra mile for our son.

FYI, there has been a lot research tending to show that the incedence among boys of AD(H)D, sensory intergration issues, Asberger's and autism may have to do with the differences in early brain development between boys and girls. Something else to blame on testosterone.

[swissmiss04]

You sound like such a great father, MysticCat! What else could I expect from a Sinfonian?
There has been a lot of debate about the link between Asperger's (I hate saying it out loud, for obvious reasons), autism, and ADHD to testosterone. There's also theories abounding that estrogen somehow prevents disorders such as schizophrenia and autism. How, that's not known yet. The reason they're linking them is because of the rise in diagnoses of schizophrenia upon reaching menopause.
I also think that having to diagnose a child with anything is something not to be taken lightly because incorrectly labelling a child could devastate his/her future intellectual development and education. Sometimes labels become self-fulfilling prophecies with very sad results. Many parents use it as an excuse for everything, but it's the worst thing they could do for their child because it tells the child, "Hey, I have this problem and Mom and Dad say it limits my potential, so I can do what I want." Once again, I'd say you've handled it quite well. If only more parents had your philosophy.

Originally posted by MysticCat81
I'm coming in late to this, but all I can say is take your child to someone who knows what they are doing, which is rarely going to be the pediatrician. (Not to be a slam on pediatricians -- it's just that this sort of a thing is really a specialty all to itself.) There is a spectrum of disorders that can result in AD(H)D-type symptoms. AD(H)D is only one.

Our son also showed many of the classic symptoms of ADHD from an early age, except for that fact that none of his hyperactivity/inattention got in the way of his life skills or learning, as per the diagnostic tools. (Other kid's learning, perhaps, but not his own.) He was eventually diagnosed with sensory integration disorder, which presents many of the same symptoms but very different challenges. Simply put, his brain did not process sensory stimulation properly and he has to "re-program" his brain to do so. As a result of the improper processing, some sensory input doesn't register as strongly as it should, while other input overloads him. The result is mental and physical disorganization that makes sitting still and paying attention (and lots of other things) hard to do. But with the right therapy (and no medicine), we have seen lots of progress and just finished a very successful first year of school.

You also have to take the lead with teachers and principles. Don't make excuses for a child --"you need to go easy on her because" -- but be an advocate for your child. "She is a smart kid with a lot of potential, but she has some challenges, and this is what we have found will help her and help you day to day." We were really fortunate to have a kindergarten teacher who would go the extra mile for our son.

FYI, there has been a lot research tending to show that the incedence among boys of AD(H)D, sensory intergration issues, Asberger's and autism may have to do with the differences in early brain development between boys and girls. Something else to blame on testosterone.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
I also think that having to diagnose a child with anything is something not to be taken lightly because incorrectly labelling a child could devastate his/her future intellectual development and education. Sometimes labels become self-fulfilling prophecies with very sad results.

That's exactly why I've always refused to say that my child (or any other child) "has ____" unless there has been a trustworthy diagnosis. When I needed to say something before we had a diagnosis, I just went with "He shows some symptoms consistent with ADHD."

Thanks for the kind words!

[James]

In some of the research I have read recently, ADD and ADHD is pretty easy to control with justa couple simple things.

1. High dose DHA. In multi gram strength.

2. Mozart music believe it or not.

3. Meal frquency and type to control insulin responses and blood sugar.

4. Elimination of allergens.

5. Some cognitive and behavioral correction, because ADD sets up a negative behavioral pattern.

I would attemtp to do that stuff before i put my kid on speed

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I have ADD but I HATED the meds....it made me feel like I was a zombie....

What finally worked for me is coffee...caffiene is a stimulant and can work in the same way as Ritalin or Cylert in a mild dose with less side effects...

My sister has it, but she is allergic to caffeine so that wouldn't work. I don't know if she was ever on meds for it or not.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by decadence
I'd thought it was a problem with norephineprine (a neurochemical) and/or its precursor dopa /dopamine? The general points tally with what I'd heard; apart from the glucose issue.

The immediate cause of ADD is inadequate glucose uptake to the frontal lobe. This is the part of the brain that controls executive function, and ADD is directly a result of this.

There may be more than one cause for the glucose uptake issue. If it was simply norphineprine or dopamine, than a reuptake inhibitor could be devised, and the problem would be solved for a huge number of people who suffer from ADD.

There is still a lot being learned, and time will tell.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
It's not just a size issue, it's a structure issue as well. I'm not sure how much head trauma figures into ADHD.

ADHD is not caused by head trauma. It is believed to be hereditary, although this hasn't been proven yet. People who have ADD are more likely to be substance abusers, as are their parents. It is believed that this is self-medication, but this hasn't been conclusively proven.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by James
In some of the research I have read recently, ADD and ADHD is pretty easy to control with justa couple simple things.

1. High dose DHA. In multi gram strength.

2. Mozart music believe it or not.

3. Meal frquency and type to control insulin responses and blood sugar.

4. Elimination of allergens.

5. Some cognitive and behavioral correction, because ADD sets up a negative behavioral pattern.

I would attemtp to do that stuff before i put my kid on speed

That's a myth. If a child truly has ADD, doing any of the above will not effectively control it. The problem is that there are other medical problems (as MysticCat81 pointed out) that have similar symptoms.

In my opinion, using anyone other than a specialist to diagnose ADD is irresponsible. Its just as bad to medicate a child who does not have ADD with that type of medication, as it is to let a true case of ADD go untreated.

[Kevin]

I have ADHD and would not ever go back to medication. My case is actually pretty severe. In grade school, I was an extremely... "energetic" child. Probably terrorized my poor teachers. I was on ritalin there for awhile. Didn't like it at all. So I quit taking it.

Once a child becomes a little older, they are capable of coping with the symptoms of ADHD. Adults are especially capable. It's just a matter of compensation. I had the same problem with dysgraphia (issues copying from a chalkboard for example to paper) I overcame that as well.

I really don't think drugging kids is a good answer, having been there and done that myself.

[Dionysus]

*Paging AKAMonet*

Do you know what Ritalin and Adderall can do to you in long term? Doctors CLAIM there aren't any concerns, but I don't trust them. Give me the dirt.

[James]

I hate to dispute you, because you sound so absolute, but I think they generally want to eliminate the other possible causes of an underaroused pre-frontal cortext.

At least before they determine you just have an organic problem and that you need permanent speed

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
That's a myth. If a child truly has ADD, doing any of the above will not effectively control it. The problem is that there are other medical problems (as MysticCat81 pointed out) that have similar symptoms.

In my opinion, using anyone other than a specialist to diagnose ADD is irresponsible. Its just as bad to medicate a child who does not have ADD with that type of medication, as it is to let a true case of ADD go untreated.