Is this really hazing?? - Page 3

Lady Pi Phi · #31 10-25-2003, 01:53 PM

I think the reason why interview would be considered hazing is because all it takes is one person to cross the line and take a simple task such as getting a signature into a chore from hell.

I don't think the task of signatures is a good idea. New members and actives should want to get to know each other, why do you have to force an activity on people?

A gathering of all the members in a relaxed enviromnet should be enough to get to know each other.
This is a 2 way street. Maybe actives should be required to get the signature of the new members as well. The burden shouldn't just be on one group.

NutBrnHair · #32 10-25-2003, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi

This is a 2 way street. Maybe actives should be required to get the signature of the new members as well. The burden shouldn't just be on one group.

Excellent, excellent point. It slays me that during recruitment we are so nice and so welcoming and then, after they join...some have the attitude of "okay now that you're in -- you are the one who needs to get to know me!"

shadokat · #33 10-28-2003, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emb021
The purpose of getting signatures/doing interviews has NOTHING to do with creating a separation between pledges & members. The purpose of such activities is to get the pledges & the membership to meet and get to know one another. To use the 'you don't ask the members to get signatures, so asking the pledges to is hazing' doesn't fly with me. You DO ask/expect the members to meet & get to know the pledges. You DO ask/expect the pledges to meet & get to know the members. Signatures/interviews is the WAY to get this done in a more formalized manner.

You ask new members to get interviews and signatures. You expect that active members will take the opportunity to get to know the new members. If a new member doesn't get his/her interviews and signatures, they may not be initiated. If an active member decides not to bother getting to know the new members, the new members just won't really know him/her except through the interview. THIS is why it's hazing.

I did interviews as a new member, and while they are a good way to get to know people sometimes, there are much more positive ways.

emb021 · #34 10-29-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shadokat
You ask new members to get interviews and signatures. You expect that active members will take the opportunity to get to know the new members. If a new member doesn't get his/her interviews and signatures, they may not be initiated. If an active member decides not to bother getting to know the new members, the new members just won't really know him/her except through the interview. THIS is why it's hazing.

I did interviews as a new member, and while they are a good way to get to know people sometimes, there are much more positive ways.

Well, any chapter that requests pledges to get ALL signatures is doing it wrong. Certainly no chapter I know does this. In fact, the chapter I work with tries to make it fun and challenging by rewarding the pledge with the most signatures, challenges them to get signatures of people who rairly show up, etc. But if they get the signatures of a majority of members (easy to do just by coming to meetings/events), they've met the requirements.

Yes, there are other ways to get pledges & members to know each other, and those are used as well as signatures/interviews.

TxGirl · #35 11-06-2003, 05:36 PM

First on scavanger hunts:

While things that the groups have to get sometimes get out of hand, most national groups consider this has much a risk management issue as a hazing issue. What do I mean by this?

Say you have to drive to several locations - if in your haste to get to the next point/prize etc., you have an accident, hit someone etc., it could be a liability for the national organization. If you are on foot and in you haste cross the street and get creamed by a car, fall and break something/injure yourself etc., it could be a liability for the national organization.

We all know what a lawsuit happy society we have now. While you may not sue (if you are the one injured) what is to stop your insurance company from doing so to recoup what they paid out for damages. As the judge/jury etc. will look at it - what where you doing? why where you doing it? would you have been doing it if you weren't in XYZ group?

Interviews/Signatures etc.

Many views on this have been stated and while I agree that for the most part interviews and even sigantures are harmless, most of the national groups frown upon it. We all know the one or two (or three or four) jacka@@es in our group who think that hazing should be legal and are ticked because they can't do what they want. These are the few bad ables that mess everything up for everyone.

If you want to do interviews or signatures (although what you learn about a person with one questions to get a signature is beyond me) then don't make it mandatory to get a certain amount to be initated.

Make it easy for them to get the interviews done. Have sisterhood/brotherhood events where the main thing to do during the event is to get the interviews. I agree with whoever talked about having the initiated members do interviews as well. Getting to know each other should be just that - so the interviews shouldn't be a onesided thing.

Something the chapter I advise for does is have everyone make a pic/info page. The initiated members do it during workweek and so that is the first thing that the new members get. Remember in most cases they have twice as many names to learn as the initiated members. The new member educator then has the new members do the same thing so that the initiated members can have info about them.

Just my two-cents - also, I'm typing this during lunch so no comments on the spelling that I didn't catch!

33girl · #36 11-06-2003, 07:39 PM

Everyone has a different definition of "signatures" it seems. We had 2 kinds: something personal the sister wrote to us, or sigs we got from friends of sisters and/or other Greeks. We didn't have to "do" anything to get any of these, just ask. The purpose was to get the pledges out and about to meet other members of the Greek community and sisters' non-Greek friends. I've never heard of anyone not being initiated for not getting all their sigs.

TxGirl · #37 11-07-2003, 05:11 PM

In the original post it was said that if the new members didn't get the interviews they didn't get to "join". I assume this means be initiated.

As for signatures, the guy I dated in college had to have the signature of every member on his 5 ft. tall paddle before he could be initiated. And these were really just the persons signed name. Some would right their "words of widsom" in addition, but most didn't. Some of the guys made them "earn" the signatures, some would make themselves unavailable to the new members until just hours before initiation. If they didn't like the new member, they would refuse to sign it. I don't know if the new member educator could override the signature thing or not, I doubt it.

Tom Earp · #38 11-07-2003, 06:03 PM

How ignorant to try to hide from giving a signature!

What is the sense of Recruiting a new member if you are going to pull crap like this?

If you thought enuff to recruit him/Her, then what are you ding. Making them sweat? Fantastic!

Isnt the idea when one recruit some one to make them a member, which means that there will be more members down the road. That will mean that the Chapter will grow and be healthy, not wither away because of stupidity!

emb021 · #39 11-07-2003, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TxGirl
In the original post it was said that if the new members didn't get the interviews they didn't get to "join". I assume this means be initiated.

As for signatures, the guy I dated in college had to have the signature of every member on his 5 ft. tall paddle before he could be initiated. And these were really just the persons signed name. Some would right their "words of widsom" in addition, but most didn't. Some of the guys made them "earn" the signatures, some would make themselves unavailable to the new members until just hours before initiation. If they didn't like the new member, they would refuse to sign it. I don't know if the new member educator could override the signature thing or not, I doubt it.

Well, this is why my chapter and others have a couple of clear policies regarding signatures.

1. we never require pledges to get EVERY signature. A majority is good enough.
2. we never allow for pledges to have to 'earn' a signature. That sort of behavior is considered by most groups to be hazing.

To get the pledges to make an effort to met the 'seldom around' members and the like, we make a fun challange of getting the most signatures. But in no way are they penalized or prevented from joining because they didn't get all or X number of signatures.

And yes, our pledgemaster would be having a talk with the chapter Brother who refused to give a signature, and I would hope any pledgemaster/pledge trainer would do the same.

exlurker · #40 11-08-2003, 08:58 PM

A couple of posts have mentioned encouraging pledges/new members to get signatures from members who are seldom around.

My question is: WHY should it be such a big deal to track down and get to know a pretty uninvolved member? I realize there may be some stellar members whose academic commitments, work demands, volunteer activities, and other pressures on their time limit their hanging-around time. But if there are members who are basically ghosts and don't associate with the chapter, I don't see any special value in prodding or requiring new members to get to know them.

Of course, I also think that getting signatures is fairly pointless and as others have said, a form of hazing.

emb021 · #41 11-08-2003, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by exlurker
A couple of posts have mentioned encouraging pledges/new members to get signatures from members who are seldom around.

My question is: WHY should it be such a big deal to track down and get to know a pretty uninvolved member? I realize there may be some stellar members whose academic commitments, work demands, volunteer activities, and other pressures on their time limit their hanging-around time. But if there are members who are basically ghosts and don't associate with the chapter, I don't see any special value in prodding or requiring new members to get to know them.

Well, I could see two reasons:

1. if that 'seldom around' member does decide to get more active, no one will know who they are, which may lead them to not bothing to get active. This way newer members will have some idea who they are.

2. having pledges track them down just may inspire them to get more active.

Pink Carnation · #42 11-09-2003, 12:12 AM

I think it's fine to have to get signatures, at my school TTU, all the Frats have sig books and they have a blast with them and yes there probably is some hazing going on, but I honestly don't know of one frat that doesn't do any type of hazing, not saying that it is right. I was at a party and a brother was well intoxiated and before his brothers could get to him, he had already read like 10 to me and they were hilarious and fun, but it is good to make sure nothing too incriminating is written in them b/c I found out a few things that I probably shouldn't know

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AlphaXi4983 · #43 11-09-2003, 02:44 AM

at my school, and according to our national constitution/by-laws, both pledge books and scavenger hunts are hazing.
i personally think pledge books and getting signatures is just dumb and a waste of time, but thats just me. i can see interviewing brothers/sisters as constructive, in fact my friend's music service fraternity requires them. but as someone mentioned earlier, i can also see how they can lead to hazing.
i don't agree with scavenger hunts being considered hazing as long as the brothers/sisters participate with the pledges as well... like groups are mixed, not pledges vs. initiates... but obviously something happened in the past that was significant enough for most nat'l orgs to consider it hazing.
just my two cents.

Kevin · #44 11-10-2003, 10:30 AM

I think the bottom line with hazing is that yes, scavenger hunts, pledge books, etc.. can be great.

However, they're against the rules.

That leaves about 919250912592109 other things that can be done. So go do those things!

ajuhdg · #45 11-10-2003, 11:31 AM

When my husband was a pledge they had the interview thing. However, they were required to make up their own set of 25 questions to ask the initiated brother. He and I actually had fun doing this! We tried to be really creative and not get the 'usual questions'. There was a requirement on how many interviews they had to get, but they could be from ANY brother...not sure if that was just in their chapter. However, being in Houston, there were LOTS of alumni around, especially because their brand-new house was being built. A lot of times, the alum would invite a few of the guys out for lunch, and they'd do the interviews then. It was a great way to keep the guys involved, and good for new members to see how there's more to greek life after graduation!

aj