Looking back on Greek years

[Lady Pi Phi]

As a member of a GLO and a student who will graduate in April 2004, 5 years after I started. I am offended that you feel the need to blame my organization for my lack of the typical 4 year graduation. There are multiple reasons why I am not graduating in 4 years. Some personal, some financial, some academic. Everyone's situation is different. My organization has helped in so many ways, many of which I would not like to discuss on this board, but my GLO is not the cause. To say there is something wrong with a person not graduating in 4 years is like telling a person who attends a uniuversity for the first time at say the age of 30 that they are too late and they shouldn't even try.

I am sorry that you did not have a positive experience with Greek life, but it appears you have very little knowledge of North American Greek life. It would be best if you knew something about it before condeming it.

[LeslieAGD]

In regards to length of college time, it seems as though many school are extending some of their programs to five years instead of four (mine was a five year). This is not necessarily connected to involvement in Greek Life or other campus activities.

[CC1GC]

Sverige ,

Perhaps you can enlighten us about the process of becoming 'greek' in sweden. My buddy's gf studied there and she told me she joined a "fraternity" (in parenthesis because they're not actually called fraternities), and what she described to me was nothing like the Greek-Lettered Organizations in North America. And, from what i hear, these Swedish-organizations are mostly social-oriented, which probably doesn't foster any real feelings of brotherhood and community.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by CC1GC
Sverige ,
Perhaps you can enlighten us about the process of becoming 'greek' in sweden.

If I may be so bold as to chime in, they have "fraternities" in Germany (hey, Swedish is a "Germanic language", so I am not totally off base here with drawing a connection between the 2 countries and cultures), only they're called "Student Corporations". Some of them even have a "duelling side" (it's considered prestigious to have a scar on your face from duelling). I visited a "fraternity house" in Heidelberg, Germany, called "Vineta".

They also had Student Corporations in Latvia, where my grandparents came from. They're not like North American Greeks (i.e. the names are not Greek lettered), but I am sure that they do their male-bonding thing (think of like Order of Elks or Eagles, or Lions Club or Knights of Columbus or whatever). My grandfather's fraternity was called "Ventonia" (he even had a poster on his wall that proudly proclaimed "Fraternitas Ventonia" so they did think of themselves as a "fraternity", although not in the Animal House sense, though I am sure they got up to some "revelry" in their time). They have Latvian sororities as well (my aunt was a black sheep and she was kicked out of her sorority Dzintra!)

There used to be a GC'er on here...I think matthewg was his name- he lived in Germany and always wanted to have deep philisophical discussions, etc. LOL

Here is a nifty website:
http://www.balticorp.de/bphv/links/en/?linkside=riga
It's all about Baltic Fraternities in Germany as well as fraternities in Dorpat, Reval and Riga (which is Latvia)
"Today these countries have many student fraternities with thousands of members who do not only participate in academic life, but also in the political, economical, and scientific sectors."

They even had a "Baltic Fraternities Convention" last year in Munich:
http://www.balticorp.de/bk2002/pdf/flyer.en.pdf

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by JohnsDGsweethrt
Everyone wants to be like Americans.

Disagree. And respect that not everyone want to be Americans.

I learn a lot from my fraternity experience. I learn how to deal with loads of BS from many people with different interests (I wonder why can't the politician learn this lessons?) and how to manage them so we can still function and move forward. THat lesson is probably the best lesson I learn from my experiences. Sure I've disagree and might even be pissed off at some of the choices made by others (doesn't this sound familiar anyone?), but I learn that ultimately everybody is after the same thing. Perhap the biggest lesson i've learn is how to avoid, after a controversial vote, being divided according to how one voted during the selections.

I also learned how not to sleep in front of the dormitories during the cold winter Buffalo nights. But that lesson I learn on my own, nothing to do with GLO experience.

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by JohnsDGsweethrt
I was referring to the majority of people I have encountered over here. I meant it in the context of where I live in Germany. I suppose I wasn't specific enough

Sorry if I sounded hostile. I get sick of people who on one hand claimed that all American are lazy, and on the other hand, everybody should be grateful that USA exist.

[JohnsDGsweethrt]

No worries Arya! You didn't sound that way at all! Everyone is allowed to have the opinions (one of the reasons why America is so great!) and I couldn't agree with you statement more!

[Eirene_DGP]

Originally posted by LeslieAGD
In regards to length of college time, it seems as though many school are extending some of their programs to five years instead of four (mine was a five year). This is not necessarily connected to involvement in Greek Life or other campus activities.

I know the education program at our school is a five year program.

In regards to the amount of time that it takes to graduate, some of the international students from Africa told me that they had 3 yr degree programs unlike our 4 yr programs. Basically their programs do not include gen. eds/liberal arts classes, only the classes necessary to finish their major. So I guess in comparison to a 3yr program, it might seem like Americans take longer to graduate.

[Sverige]

Originally posted by NinjaPoodle
Based on your answer, I realized something. You don't understand the American Greek system because you are NOT culturally American {as in grew up here} To understand it [our Greek system], you need to understand America, her history and the nuances that come with it. I don’t have the energy to explain it so I won’t but I’m sure my fellow GC’ers may decide to.

Our Greek system plays a large part in our politics, history, social areas, etc. And for all the flaws that it has, we find it quite useful as many of my fellow GCers have attested. No, our system is not perfect, but we are always seeking ways to make it better and more useful during college and after college.

Please don’t put something down you really have no knowledge of. We are happy to help you try to understand the reason/s behind our fraternal ideas.

NinjaPoodle,

I never stated that I didn't know what the American greek system is like. In fact, I did not join a Swedish fraternity. I was in an American fraternity at a school in the south, below the dixie line.

I perfectly well understand America's history, social and economical history, as well as it's political history. In fact, most Europeans know more about America than most Americans themselves. For example, most Americans cannot name each president that has passed through the executive office from George Washington to the current Bush, despite the short History of the U.S. and some of it's presidents being Greek themselves. Also, few can name each branch of government and what their primary role and functions are, as well as who is the head of each without looking it up or asking someone.

I tried something one time, I asked 4 friends who are Americans to write down each of the 50 states and gave them 10 minutes to do it, I offered them 15$ each if they could. None of them could get all 50, most missed 1 or 2 states. I also popped the question as to what type of Economy the U.S. has, do you realize that everyone I asked, with the exception of one person, all said Democracy.

One other thing that baffles me is that Americans show little interest in foreign nations. I was in a library and I told somone that I am living in Sweden, his respnose, " Is that by Michigan or something?". I'd be willing to be that most of you on this board couldn't name the presidental succession order down to the 5th in line should the others be killed. Knowing these things and they're like doesn't make one more American than the other. Not knowing things like the ones mentioned and trying to tell someone they don't understand America, it makes you and your kind look stupid. Now, not caring whether or not you know them is ignorance and makes you a hippocrit for trying to tell one they don't understand how things are in America. Don't try to turn this conversation into an American vs. Non-American ordeal. I can already see it coming. Since many here claim to hold dear to ideals and beliefs, one ideal and belief is not making yourself and what you represent look bad. That said, go out and learn a new foreign language, be more open minded, quit always thinking everyone else in the world hates you. I am trying to have a simple conversation with you and some of you are making this into a greek hating message.

I know how the greek system is in the U.S., thats why I came onto this board to discuss such matters and get the opinions of those within the system, those who have already graduated. I never once said I didn't have a positive or good time being in a fraternity. I never once stated that GLO's= Evil. I had much fun and many memories. But one day should my children ask me why did i join a fraternity, I wouldn't want to lie and say it was because of it's ideals and beliefs, obviously the members in my organization did not live up to them and hold them steadfast. However, I do realize that each and every chapter is different and my experiences might have been different had I joined one of the other orginizations. I don't regret doing what I did, it's just my organization painted one picture but was actually different beneath the outer layer. A good comparison would be like the paintings in the movie " The thomas crown affair" with Pierce Brosnan. On the surface they showed one thing, but after a little water, it was actually a joke.

To dutchGirl-

I understand that joing a GLO would help you meet more people and bring in friends to those who don't have any. However, thats called paying for your friends and it is something most people look down on. In Europe we don't look at it that way. Most Europeans love meeting new people. But many people in America look at being apart of a GLO as paying for friends, which is fine if you don't plan on living in America. I'm just trying to say that the perception within the minds of many individuals in the U.S. is that being in such an organization is "paying" for people to like you. Once in the organization one does not look at it that way, but, if you stop paying your dues try and see how long you'll be allowed to come into the fraternity house and visit with your pledege brothers and others. Yes, the dues are for good reasons and are the reason why the GLO has it's functions and parties, but if they were all true friends, they would still like you regardless of whether or not you quit paying the dues and are no longer active. It is stupid to think that depsite ones financial short comings, all the members within his/her organization would still love to have that person come by and visit or hang out with from time to time. Usually that person goes either inactive or is blackballed, this inturn makes it easier for it's members to then turn thier backs on that one individual and label him/her as an outcast. In my view that is not true friends. Let me point out though, this did not happen to me, I just realize thats how it works and I think it stinks.


Now, for those of you who already have a prejudice against me:

Below is one reason why Americans are portrayed the way they are:

This message was sent to me from aopinthesky:

"I have to tell you, I think you are a real ASS. If you don't know the AMERICAN slang meaning of that, let me know and I will explain it to you. I agree with Tom's post, it always helps if you know your subject matter before you post something that shows your total ignorance. In this case, your ignorance of AMERICA (that's with a C) is showing. If you are interested in our point of view, I am sure you can get it, and get it in a nice way. If you are interested in flaming the Greekchat Board, please go away. I wouldn't dare go on a foreign message board and post things that degraded Europeans. Why do you think it is all right for you to do that to what is largely an AMERICAN message board. It does not show your intelligence, LACK OF LAZINESS, or dominance over AMERICANS. It shows that you are stupid and bigoted."


A few things, I know a lot about what I write. I'm not a bigot nor am I ignortant to American life, greek and non greek. I'm not degrading anyone or anything. I'm merely asking for opinions. The problem here began when some of you just assumed certain things and made responses to what your mind conjured. My use of a K instead of a C was simply a way to see which of you don't like me. Most could have cared less whether or not I used a K or a C, that is irrelevant to what we are supposed to be talking about. In no way was I trying to show any sort of dominance over any nationality, it appears some people have a reading comprehension problem.

I knew coming into this converstaion it would strike up a few flames, however we are all adults here and please remember to try and act like one. You should be able to talk about things without getting so defensive. All you have to do is show you're point of view, there's no need to call someone an Ass if they don't see things as you. Calling someone ignorant is much better than calling someone an ass, if that were not the case do you think it would be ok to call someone a bitch? If I called you a bitch it would only raise the wall even higher and you're opinion of me would only sink, what do you think my opinion of you is after calling me an ass since you cannot intelligently express your point of view? If you think I'm ignorant, fine. I don't care. But I doubt many of your fellow GC'ers would care to engage in a profanity battle.

I guess the best comparison to being greek and not being greek is easily put like this:

Being greek is like being married. You put your time, money and heart into it, and sometimes in the end you find that it wasn't really for you. It has it's ups and it has it's down. Depending on who you made your bed with determines what type of experience you'll have.

For those of you who asked about GLO's in Sweden, there are none. The closets thing to a GLO would be like something modeled after the Amerikan Kiwanis club, Elks Lodge or Shriners Club, they are merely groups of men who gather for social reasons. Thats it. Also, I'm the only person who writes under this name, but there are 3 others who browse this forum under the name as well.


Also, DutchGirl- Are you going to the festival in Denmark in 1 1/2 weeks? If you are planning, it has been sold out. Over 1 million tickets are sold. It has not sold out in over 7 yrs. Surely it will be fun. I have 5 tickets, i need to get rid of 1 extra. Myself and 3 girls will be going.

[JohnsDGsweethrt]

Wow I could say soooooooooooooooo many things but I just won't I will say this. If I'm paying for friends at least I am getting my money's worth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sverige]

Like I said, everyone joins for different reason. None are wrong.

[astroAPhi]

My use of a K instead of a C was simply a way to see which of you don't like me.

I'm sorry, but that's really lame. We're not here to play mind games, we're here to discuss subjects that interest us. Also note that you used it later in your post. The reason people jump on poor spelling of a language is because they think it denotes ignorance of the language or of the culture. If I were to leave an accent off of a french word, I'd have people correcting me on a french board. Or if I made a pronoun female instead of male I'd have the same problem.

I think the reason a lot of people have jumped on you is because they did not join their GLO for the reasons you listed, and because you're upholding a stereotype that many look upon as negative, and causes problems for the Greek system as a whole. It brings down recruitment numbers and causes people to pre-judge us without even getting to know us.

[Sverige]

If that is the case, forgive me. It won't happen again.

[sueali]

i do not and will never regret my decision to go Greek. My sisters are my family, I'm even closer to some of them than I will ever be with members of my own family. Even though I'm an alum those sisters continue to be there for me and will always be there for me, it is a bond we have formed. I don't want to rag on you, but perhaps you have lost sight of the bond that you shared with your brothers because you are no longer near any of them (being in Sweden). Many employers do look at greek life as a plus on a resume because it shows strong leadership skills and commitment.

[zchi2]

I'm sorry but I don't understand why you posted this thread in the first place. It seems like you were making a statement more than asking a question. You joined a greek organization to get women... and other people stated on this board that they joined for other reasons. Maybe you should of asked the question in a different way to get a better respond from the board. All of these assumptions about the country in which you joined a fraternity was because you never answered the question when someone first asked what country you were talking about.

To me this thread didn't get "tense" until you called us lazy. That is like me going to a German board and said everyone in Germany is ugly. Ummm... I don't think that would go over too well. You told us why you and your friends joined a fraternity and we told you why we became Greek. Why did you have to go into a speech about how bad America is? I'm not the most patriotic person myself but I really didn't come on this board to hear about the short comings of the School System in America. If you want to do that we can go over to the Chit Chat board and do that...