Proud To Be Greek!!!!!!!

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by decadence
Agree 100%. At least with the over 80% of US Presidents since 1900 being greek example, we know have a 100% verified situation, based on information from official bodies. Only a few more to verify

Without further ado...

Every U.S. President and Vice President, except two in each office, born since the first social fraternity was founded in 1825 have been members of a fraternity.

Debunked as Greek Urban Legend by the Center for the Study of the College Fraternity. Their list, which you posted in this thread, shows that R.B. Hayes, who became president in 1877 and was a Deke, was the first "Greek" president, at least if considering an NIC group.

Simple logic backs this up. Yes, Kappa Alpha Society was the first social fraternity and was founded in 1825, but for a while fraternities were relatively few in number and were limited to relatively few campuses. (Professional, service, and other "specialized" GLOs did not come until later.) Add in the constitutional requirement that a president must be 35 years old, and it would appear to be at least 1848 or so before any man who went Greek in college would even be eligible to be president, much less be elected.

Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community.

Good luck verifying this. This semester? Last semester? Ten years ago? And why "some 730 campuses"? There are lots more college/university campuses than that. Do they mean the campuses that allow Greek life? Then say so.

There are 123 fraternities and sororities with 9 million members total.

See, now here is an example of a statistic that looks straightfoward, but is actually misleading and inaccurate. Just take a look at ariesrising's pages or GreekPages.com, and you can easily find more than 123 fraternities and sororities.

Do they mean 123 NIC, NPC and NPHC groups? Then say so. Do they mean national, social GLO's? Then say so. Are they including professional GLOs? Service GLOs? Multi-cultural GLOs? Latino/a GLOs? Local GLOs? Better make it clear.

But it probably won't get made clear. And yet someone will pick up this "fact" and run with it, placing it in rush info and posting it on the web, and we'll still be seeing it 15 years from now, when even if it once was accurate it won't be any more. This is why I am so leery of these Greek "statistics."

[decadence]

MysticCat81's responses precluded by ">>".

One thing I'll mention before I respond to the rest of your points re the various examples of those widely quoted Greek statistics I posted in this thread. I'm aware some/most of them may be urban legends with no basis in fact just so you know and haven't deluded myself they're all true! Hopefully via this thread though we'll be able to establish which if any are true (backed up by verifiable proof).

>> Debunked as Greek Urban Legend by the Center for the Study
>> of the College Fraternity. Their list, which you posted in this
>> thread, shows that R.B. Hayes, who became president in
>> 1877 and was a Deke, was the first "Greek" president,
I quickly found out that this seemed untrue, also. The Center covered themselves, kinda, by saying it "probably" wasn't true of course . As an aside, when the statistic is generally quoted, it's used in various ways e.g. every president BORN since 1825 is one alternate example, or rather than use the word "greek" they state every president has been a "fraternity man" - which then includes freemasonry (avoiding the Greek argument).
On your next paragraph you explain perfectly why the 'born since' example is equally invalid .

>> at least if considering an NIC group.
Don't get me started on that again

>> Good luck verifying this.
Thanks

>> This semester? Last semester? Ten years ago? And
>> why "some 730 campuses"? There are lots more
>> college/university campuses than that. Do they mean the
>> campuses that allow Greek life?
If we assume/pretend for one moment this was a valid statistic, then looking at it the way it's phrased it seems to indicate info. is from some type of research, presumably a scholarly study (doctoral thesis etc) which surveyed a finite number of campuses e.g 1000 and 730
~Off topic for one sec: Out of interest how many accredited campuses are there and who are they accredited by? (Just wondered).~

>> Then say so.
Me??

>> There are 123 fraternities and sororities with 9 million
>> members total. See, now here is an example of a statistic that
>> looks straightfoward, but is actually misleading and
>> inaccurate. Just take a look at ariesrising's pages or
>> GreekPages.com, and you can easily find more than 123
>> fraternities and sororities.
>> ...it probably won't get made clear. And yet someone will pick
>> up this "fact" and run with it, placing it in rush info and
>> posting it on the web, and we'll still be seeing it 15 years from
>> now, when even if it once was accurate it won't be any more.
Exactly, I actually agree with most of what you've said, MysticCat81, despite the devils advocate-esque nature of my response. But that's why I think it is important to ewxamine the "statistics" to examine which is true and which is false. If there are positive statistics we can use in rush info and on websites, great but until we reach a point where we know and can prove and explain those stratistics before using the we run the risk of not knowing what we are talking about (when using them).

[decadence]

Just discovered the NIC website (NorthAmerican Interfraternity Conference) quotes many of these (or similar) on their website. http://www.nicindy.org/publicrelations.html

[Tom Earp]

Well, the only thing that i have figured out is statistics are every where and can be put up for everything! and anything!

The Fraternal world is always in a state of flux. Things change daily and do.

Chapters come and go, sometimes Organizations Merge! I am not sure if PSE and PSK were the last?

There a may be more in the Future, one never knows

[decadence]

48% of all US presidents have been Greek verified
Simply refer to list of Greek Presidents since 1900, bear in mind there were 18 before Rutherford Birchard Hayes and none were Greek then after 1900 as mentioned before three were not Greek. The total amount out of the 43 Presidents not being Greek equalling 21. Thus 49% of all US presidents have been Greek (statistic said 48% as NIC only considered their member fraternities).

123 Fraternities and Sororities source identified
Breakdown: (these are clearly international fraternities and sororities – social, single sex)
66 NIC Men's Fraternities (NorthAmerican Interfraternity Conference)
26 NPC Women's Fraternities (National Panhellenic Conference)
9 NPHC Groups (National Pan-Hellenic Council)
22 NALFO Group (National Association of Latino Fraternal Organizations)

9 Million Members Total
750,000 Undergraduate Members
12000 Chapters
Located on 800 campuses in USA and Canada

Souce "NPC/NIC Research Initiative 2000-2001".
Performed by Center for Advanced Social Research – University of Missouri Columbia.
"Representative sample of more than 2,300 students on a representative sample of U.S campuses."
Figures are from the data available to the Center for Advanced Social Research via the governing bodies.

As an FYI, Professional Fraternities not included in that figure of 123 Fraternities and Sororities have the governing body the "Professional Fraternity Association" "To be eligible for membership, a fraternity must be national or international in character and shall charter its institutional chapters only at appropriately accredited colleges, universities, or professional schools. The fraternity shall be identified by, or related to a field of study or common interest." There are 34 member fraternities under the PFA. (123+34=157).

"Most Successful Leadership Development Program for College Students" source identified
Probable origin 82% of females and 68% of males reported they joined Greek orgs for leadership training. Aforementioned 2001 study.

[Tom Earp]

OKAY AND ALL OF THE POINTS ARE??

Now that we have settled NADA!

ANY AND ALL FIGURES CAN BEED SCEEWED!!


For every person who writes about the Know ALL TELL ALL, % are ambigiously BORING!!!!

OH WELL:TTFN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[decadence]

I didn't say they were especially interesting. Not at all. But any positive info is good if I know it's correct. I just don't want to use statistics that might be wrong. And some others don't either.

edited to add: erm what I meant was now I *know* all but 2/3 Presidents since 1825 weren't greek for example I won't use that info. in ignorance again. A lot of GLOs use these statistics as selling points without knowing the veracity of them. Now for the ones GC'ers have proven/debunked on this thread if they're asked "Prove it!" they can.

[decadence]

A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sorority graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate. (also vaguely recall it mentioned this was a Univ. of Missouri study; unable to verify so far)

It wasn't exactly a US Government study... Though there was one in the past...

The NPC/NIC Research Initiative study has been conducted regularly since 1996. The 1998 study found (reported by Esther Thorson, director for the CASR) that since nearly 25 percent of the university's undergraduates are members of a fraternity or sorority, they expected that if Greeks were equally likely as non-Greek students to drop out then they would observe 25 percent of dropouts to have been in a fraternity or sorority. But their findings showed that only 18 percent of the dropouts identified themselves as having been members of a fraternity or sorority. "This would mean about a 28 percent higher retention rate than expected by chance," Dr. Thorson said in a news release. http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/nique/is...mpuslife4.html
It would appear this is the origin of the statistic.
Among the study's findings are that alumni of fraternities or sororities appear to be more likely to donate money to their alma maters than do other graduates, as well as feeling better about the social aspects of their undergraduate experience.
"The research findings show that young men and women who take an active part in a men's or women's fraternity or sorority are more likely to stay in college and to support their alma maters as alumni," said NPC Chairman Lissa Bradford and NIC President Idris R. Traylor in a news release.

Further sources related to student retention ( http://www.gammasigmaalpha.org/ ):
• Group living (residence halls and Greek houses) has a positive influence on retention and graduation (Carney, 1980)
• Fraternity residents are less likely to drop out (Eckland, 1964)
• More Greek transfer students graduate than non-members (Gibson, 1995)
• Greeks have higher graduation rates than non-Greeks (Iffert, 1958)
• Greek persistence and graduation rates were higher (Scott, 1965)

Carney, M. (1980). Persistence and graduation rates of Greek, independent, commuter and residence hall students: A nine semester study. Office of Student Affairs Research, 1979-1980 Report No. 45. Norman: University of Oklahoma. 3 pp. Abstract -- The results of this study support the positive socialization function that on-campus living offers students, particularly those with Greek affiliation. The fact that Greek students have lower academic ability as measured by standardized entrance tests, than residence hall non-Greek students, but yet have higher retention and graduation rates further supports the value of group living. {Single Institution study prior to 1990} [Abstract from Center for the Study of the College Fraternity, Annotated Bibliography, Research Studies and Articles 1980-1985]

Eckland, Bruce K. (1964). A source of error in college attrition studies. Sociology of Education, 38(1), 60-72.
Abstract -- Questionnaires returned by 1,180 former University of Illinois students were utilized to study predictors of college graduation. Academic careers of students over a ten-year period were examined. The general finding was that factors associated with a student’s early attrition from college have little connection with his or her later academic career. Students who resided in a fraternity were much less likely than others to dropout of the university, however dropouts who did not reside in a fraternity were more likely to return to college and graduate. [KRH]

Gibson, I. Jr. (1995). The relationship between graduation and selected variables among community college transfer students at Mississippi State University. Doctoral dissertation, Mississippi State University. Dissertation Abstracts International, 56 (6), 2089.
Abstract -- The purpose of this study was to determine whether a relationship existed between graduation and selected variables among community college students who transferred to Mississippi State University (MSU) during the fall semester of 1989. The selected variables were American College Test (ACT) score, chronological age, grade point average (GPA) prior to transferring, ethnicity (white or nonwhite), gender, credit hours transferred, Greek membership and living in a residence hall after transferring. Tinto's theory of persistence was selected as the theoretical perspective for understanding issues of students persisting to graduation in this study. A random sample of 200 subjects was selected from a population of 712 community college students who transferred to MSU. Data were collected from university records. Conclusions included: (1) The majority of the students who transferred to MSU from community colleges during the fall of 1989 graduated. The profile of community college students who persisted to graduation based on total numbers was: (a) ACT scores of 18 or higher, (b) approximately 20 years of age, (c) 60 or more credit hours earned prior to transferring to MSU, (d) white, (e) male, (f) not a member of a Greek organization, and (g) did not live in a residence hall. (2) Proportionately, more transfer students who were members of Greek organizations than non-Greek graduated. (3) Credit hours, GPA, and chronological age were the only variables that had a statistically significant correlation with persisting to graduation. [Author/KRH]

Iffert, Robert E. (1958). Retention and withdrawal of college students. Department of Health Education, and Welfare, Office of Education, Bulletin series, No. 1. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office.
Abstract -- Investigated the extent and character of retention, transfer, and withdrawal of 8,000 undergraduate students from a representative group of post-secondary institutions. The study covered 147 institutions of higher education in 46 states and the District of Columbia. Members of social fraternities who graduated had slightly, but not significantly, lower grades than non-fraternity male graduates. Members of social sororities had significantly higher grades than non-sorority women graduates. Students who were members or pledges of fraternities or sororities had better persistence records and graduation rates in the institutions of first registration than did nonmembers. Similarly, institutions having local or national social fraternities and sororities also had lower withdrawal rates than institutions without Greek letter organizations. [Author/KRH]

Scott, W. A. (1965). Values and organizations: A study of fraternities and sororities. Chicago: Rand McNally.
Abstract -- Studied ten fraternities and sororities at the University of Colorado over a one-year period to investigate how personal values enter into organizational processes. A couple of findings associated with actual academic achievement and student attrition are scattered throughout this well-indexed volume. The limited findings included: (1) persistence and graduation rates are higher among fraternity and sorority members than among non-members; and (2) when academic aptitude scores are equated with first semester grades, Greeks may show a decrease in academic performance relative to independents in their subsequent school years. Other findings concentrate on the values of students and groups of students including academic achievement and intellectualism as values of Greek organizations. 290 pages, 64 references. [KRH]
Abstract -- The results of this study support the positive socialization function that on-campus living offers students, particularly those with Greek affiliation. The fact that Greek students have lower academic ability as measured by standardized entrance tests, than residence hall non-Greek students, but yet have higher retention and graduation rates further supports the value of group living. {Single Institution study prior to 1990} [Abstract from Center for the Study of the College Fraternity, Annotated Bibliography, Research Studies and Articles 1980-1985]

[decadence]

.
Re Greeks being achieving more academically.

Greek women were more likely to achieve high grades than non-Greek women... (Iffert, 1958)
http://www.gammasigmaalpha.org/summa...us_studies.htm

Iffert, Robert E. (1958). Retention and withdrawal of college students. Department of Health Education, and Welfare, Office of Education, Bulletin series, No. 1. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office. Abstract -- Investigated the extent and character of retention, transfer, and withdrawal of 8,000 undergraduate students from a representative group of post-secondary institutions. The study covered 147 institutions of higher education in 46 states and the District of Columbia. Members of social fraternities who graduated had slightly, but not significantly, lower grades than non-fraternity male graduates. Members of social sororities had significantly higher grades than non-sorority women graduates. Students who were members or pledges of fraternities or sororities had better persistence records and graduation rates in the institutions of first registration than did nonmembers. Similarly, institutions having local or national social fraternities and sororities also had lower withdrawal rates than institutions without Greek letter organizations. [Author/KRH]

Re Greeks being more involved and active on campus.

http://www.gammasigmaalpha.org/summa..._influence.htm
Greek residents were more likely to be involved than people who lived in single-sex residence halls, home, or off campus (Marji, 1994) Greek residents were found to be far more involved in campus activities than non-Greeks (Marji, 1994)
Intra-group relations, spirit and enthusiasm, and loyalty to own group had a positive impact on achievement (McQuilkin, 1970)

Marji, M. S. (1994). The interrelationship between key demographic variables, involvement in extracurricular activities, development of interpersonal values and academic achievement. Doctoral dissertation, University of Maryland College Park, 1993. Dissertation Abstracts Internationa1. 55, 1398.
Abstract -- The purpose of this study was to examine the relationship between a number of key demographic variables (i.e., gender, age, racial and ethnic background, class standing, marital status, student status, and place of residence), involvement in extracurricular activities (e.g., social fraternity/sorority, intramural sports team, performing group, academic honors), interpersonal values (i.e., support, conformity, recognition, independence, benevolence, leadership), and academic achievement (GPA). The data for this study were collected from 149 undergraduate students randomly selected from seven Core fundamental Studies courses offered at The University of Maryland, College Park (UMCP) during Spring semester, 1993. The t-Test and Analysis of Variance resulted in significant differences (alpha .05) between student groups with respect to their intensity of involvement in extracurricular activities. Students living in a coed-college hall or in a fraternity/sorority house were significantly more involved than those who live with parent(s), with spouse, in a single-sex hall or in an apartment/trailer. Intensity of involvement in extracurricular activities was positively related to benevolence, leadership and academic achievement, and inversely, but moderately related to independence. Independence was found to be significantly, inversely related to academic achievement. Student status contributed significantly, inversely to academic achievement. Intensity of involvement contributed significantly, but indirectly to academic achievement via support, recognition, benevolence and leadership. Student status, support, conformity, recognition, independence, benevolence, and leadership were all found to be significant, direct, inverse contributors to academic achievement. Results of the study supported the relationships between age and involvement in extracurricular activities, age and academic achievement, and place of residence and involvement in extracurricular activities. [Author/ shortened by KRH]]

McQuilkin Pau1 R. (1970). Differential effects of group factors on fraternity pledge class allocation of time and academic achievement. Ann Arbor , Michigan, University Microfilms Inc. Doctoral dissertation, Iowa State University, 1969. Abstracted in Dissertation Abstracts International, 30(11), p. 4732-A.
Abstract – A study of first quarter freshmen fraternity pledges at Iowa State University examined selected characteristics of pledges including differential affects of group environments on academic achievement. Data came from questionnaires administered to the pledges at the beginning and end of a ten-week period, and a self-reporting time allocation form kept by the pledges during the ten weeks. Pledges joined fraternities based on a perception of organizational strength and esprit de corps of the chapter and the chapter’s apparent concern for academic environment. Findings of the study include how the fraternity experience affected the pledge classes’ grades. The author found that study time was not significantly related to academic achievement. The best predictor’s of grade point average were items concerned with intra-group relations, spirit and enthusiasm, loyalty of members to each other, music and singing, and pledge/actives relationships. The differential effects of academic achievement among fraternity pledge groups was best explained by differences in peer group relationships and attitudes that exist within fraternity chapters. The differential effects of academic achievement among different fraternity groups resulted from differences in esprit de corps and organizational strength of the chapters. [KRH]

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by decadence
MysticCat81's responses precluded by ">>".
>> Then say so.
Me??

No, no, no, no. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I mean that whoever first "announces" a statistic should be specific about it. The more general is it, the less reliable it may be, or at least may appear to be.

No problem here with your quest to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by decadence
123 Fraternities and Sororities source identified
Breakdown: (these are clearly international fraternities and sororities – social, single sex)
66 NIC Men's Fraternities (NorthAmerican Interfraternity Conference)
26 NPC Women's Fraternities (National Panhellenic Conference)
9 NPHC Groups (National Pan-Hellenic Council)
22 NALFO Group (National Association of Latino Fraternal Organizations)

9 Million Members Total
750,000 Undergraduate Members
12000 Chapters
Located on 800 campuses in USA and Canada

Souce "NPC/NIC Research Initiative 2000-2001".
Performed by Center for Advanced Social Research – University of Missouri Columbia.
"Representative sample of more than 2,300 students on a representative sample of U.S campuses."
Figures are from the data available to the Center for Advanced Social Research via the governing bodies.

Ahh, but Kappa Sigma and Phi Delta Theta have dropped their membership in the NIC this past year, so the 2000-2001 statistics are no longer vaild. (One would assume that membership numbers and chapter numbers have changed since then as well.) Sorry, I couldn't help it.

As an FYI, Professional Fraternities not included in that figure of 123 Fraternities and Sororities have the governing body the "Professional Fraternity Association"

Just for the record, the PFA is not a "governing body." Neither is the NIC for that matter. (Can't say about the NHPC or NALFO.) They are simply umbrella organizations designed to assist their member groups, provide a unified voice, and allow for inter-GLO cooperation. They do not set policies that are binding on member GLOs in the same way that the NPC does.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

decadence

I think that you are really proud to be greek!

Good researching.