Sexism in Greekdom

[ChaosDST]

I have to agree with you (as usual) Soror!

I love this discussion.

Originally posted by ladygreek
I have to say that to me this is one of the best discussions I have seen on any message board. Two dynamic brothers making their different points intelligently and with great articulation. I'm loving it!

Doggy, thanks for your response to my post. And then to refer to me as esteemed, Lawd I am fanning myself. Lawrence, see this is why you are a good author. Love you both!

[ChaosDST]

Originally posted by Divine Nine


I've got a question: Why do you define the admittance of a woman into previously all male VMI as being credible? The arguments against said that a woman cadet was antithetical to the VMI mission. Also, there was tradition that said women had no place at VMI. So why does this have merit?

I say that women have a place at VMI just like they would have a place in the military.

People can form an argument for or against anything. Merely having an argument doesn't say anything about credibility. Some things can be deemed foolish based on face value (like a woman in Alpha Phi Alpha). Other things may be deemed foolish after you weight the arguments.

I would say that women have a place at VMI (whether they, as individuals, can withstand the rigor is another issue), but shouldn't attempt to matriculate at an institution such as Moorehouse.

[miss priss]

Let me add this is a great discussion!

Let me play the devil's advocate for a moment....
What about segregationism in BGLO's, would you apply the same ideas in regards to persons of white/hispanic/asian etc.
decent ? Does it really exist? Could it be considered as self- chosen segregationism?

[Rae1]

Women should be admitted as members because there is no golf/country club comparable in status as Augusta that admits women.

As I see it, it is a SEPARATE BUT (UN)EQUAL issue. I think that it would be very difficult for a woman (or group of women) to sue for membership into a male fraternity because there are many comparable sororities that one could pursue membership with as a woman.

One of the arguments women made when pursuing admittance into VMI is that there was no comparable military institution that admitted women. Many existing private schools and organizations that continue to limit membership based on sex are successful (with their continued segregation) because there is a comparable entity that serves the other sex. (ex...Morehouse & Spellman, various fraternity and sororities). I believe that since there is no comparable golf club admitting women, it is only a matter of time that Augusta will admit women into their club.

As a black woman, I am amazed at how many Black men are against women being admitted into this club!!!! If in 2003, African American men were not allowed membership into this golf club, you would be appalled, scream racism, and demand action. Well, enough women are appalled, we are screaming sexism, and we are demanding action.

Just my thoughts,
Rae

[NUPE4LIFE]

Miss Priss posed a very good question that no one has come forward to answer. Would we apply the same standards (i.e Master's) to BGLO segregation? I will start by saying that all D9 organizations have non-black members. Whether it's fully caucasian or the result of a multi-ethnic background, we all have them. However, I would also argue that there is still a culture of being very suspicious when a non-black person wants to pursue membership into our organizations. All this talk about allowing women in because there's no comparable golf club that allows women, sounds like the separate but equal clause that whites used against us. Now I don't think that a white person has ever sued to join one of the D9 organizations, but that day could be coming soon. My opinion is this, as long as a non-black person realizes that one of our main purposes is to uplift the African American community and they have a strong interest in that then I'm totally cool with them. Like I stated before, I'm for a woman being allowed membership at the Masters. I just don't feel that a court of law should force them to admit a woman. But if this thing eventually goes to court, don't be surprised if one of our orgs. are next on the chopping block that is our extremely litigiouis society.

[miss priss]

Originally posted by miss priss
Let me add this is a great discussion!

Let me play the devil's advocate for a moment....
What about segregationism in BGLO's, would you apply the same ideas in regards to persons of white/hispanic/asian etc.
decent ? Does it really exist? Could it be considered as self- chosen segregationism?

this question:ttt

[sphinxpoet]

Originally posted by miss priss
this question:ttt

I think the ideals or our organization calls for us to include all people's of different races. How can any D9 org speak of equal rights and equal access for people of all races if we do not open our doors. Now on the issues of women and men in Frats and Sororities let us be clear. Membership for any private organization can be done however in Brown Vs the Board of Ed it was made clear those instutions that are for public use cannot discriminate based on race or gender. THE SERVICES OUR ORGS PROVIDE ARE FOR ALL PEOPLE. But just like the Federal Government not EVERYONE can be a member. Not EVERYONE can run but must meet requirments! I have been to many a D9 Informational where women are like I wish I could be an Alpha, Kappa or Que cause women are ABC and EFG. I laughed it off at times but realize that some of these people may be serious. I have been to parties where sweethearts are almost like the Org the associate with. However many Court Justices and Higher Court Justices are actually in Fraternities and Sororities(BGLO and GLO) and you would be hard pressed to find one that would rule in favor of.

Sphinxpoet

[miss priss]

Originally posted by sphinxpoet
I have been to many a D9 Informational where women are like I wish I could be an Alpha, Kappa or Que cause women are ABC and EFG. I laughed it off at times but realize that some of these people may be serious. I have been to parties where sweethearts are almost like the Org the associate with. Sphinxpoet

With that being said,

1. Does that mean that BGLO's should take a serious look at becoming affiliated (legally) as a constitutionally bound brotherhood/sisterhood somewhat like the Zetas/Sigmas?

2. Should sororities and fraternity take seriously the notion of becoming "frarorities"?

3. Considering the plight (such as lawsuits, possible bankruptcies, and the lack of financial members) of sororities and fratenities today, should BGLO's reexamine how the culture of the membership effects the longevity of each individual organization/

[sphinxpoet]

Originally posted by miss priss
With that being said,

1. Does that mean that BGLO's should take a serious look at becoming affiliated (legally) as a constitutionally bound brotherhood/sisterhood somewhat like the Zetas/Sigmas?

2. Should sororities and fraternity take seriously the notion of becoming "frarorities"?

3. Considering the plight (such as lawsuits, possible bankruptcies, and the lack of financial members) of sororities and fratenities today, should BGLO's reexamine how the culture of the membership effects the longevity of each individual organization/

1. In today's society legally there may be a problem being constuntionally bound. If someone sues Sigma for hazing there is, unfortunatly, a real possibility that someone could sue Zeta! Because like any other company you go for the parent company and all it's affilates when you sue.

2. No not yet the society is not that far to the left as a whole.

3. Lawsuits are a possibility and it does not have to be hazing. ANY business is capable of being sued at anytime for any reason. Someone is suing P. Diddy for something he was not even around for! You must get proper insurance and proper financial managment in order to counteract these things.

[ChaosDST]

Originally posted by miss priss
With that being said,

1. Does that mean that BGLO's should take a serious look at becoming affiliated (legally) as a constitutionally bound brotherhood/sisterhood somewhat like the Zetas/Sigmas?

2. Should sororities and fraternity take seriously the notion of becoming "frarorities"?

3. Considering the plight (such as lawsuits, possible bankruptcies, and the lack of financial members) of sororities and fratenities today, should BGLO's reexamine how the culture of the membership effects the longevity of each individual organization/

1. NO

2. NO

3. YES