It happened again... - Page 3

josh8o · #31 10-26-2002, 08:56 PM

i just checked this since i posted the first time, and damn...
i do agree with a lot of what ivy said. because of a harmful history when a situation like this occurs it upsets a group of people. i have a sesnitivy level where i do not condone this activity, and i feel the pain that it can cause. if someone dressed up like an italian and walked around with a big plate of pasta shouting "mama mia" i would be like what's the deal?!
anyway, my point. the article said that the student was dress up as louie armstrong, and even though he darkened his face and we have all derermined that the act is not cool, i dont see why people are making him out to be some racest guy who likes to make fun of black people. i dont know this kid, or his motives, but from what was printed none of us can say that his act was purposely done to make fun of black people. yes this is a sensitive issue, yes he should not have done it, but how can we dictate that what he did was 100% wrong when we dont know him. he just could be very ingorant to the sensitivy level of other cultures. maybe he has never known a black person and that his actions were insensitive.
now, i still believe that there is a double standard. it my not be a realistic double standard becouse who has seen a black person dress up in white face?? but there are so many double standards and they piss me off. if we are really equal, not just black white but with all races and sex, they who do certain groups get away with more stuff than others? take this seasons episode of the real world...this girl throws a fork at a guy and pushes him. he tells the producers and wants her kicked off, but the producers say no. he says that if the role was reversed he would be kicked off so quick. yes, i know girls can not defend themselfs as well as guys, but this is a double standard also.
i guess i feel so strongly about double standards because i see them a lot. i'm all about respecting others, but i am also infavor of equality--no one should be more equal, or get away with anything that another group could not.

Tom Earp · #32 10-26-2002, 09:56 PM

Damn, get over this color barrier!

I am so damned tired of hearing how Blacks were used by whites as many Blacks were instrmental in sending them on slave ships to many countries, not just the USA!

One of the Best Shows on early TV were with Blacks!

Any of you tell me that there is not a difference is more of a racist than anyone that I know! I see it every day in my shop! I saw it on the PD!

I have been robbed 3 times in 7 days and it was blacks who did it! I also lost a employee. Am I pissed, hell yes! Do you care that some of your own took 1800.00 $ from me as a small business man! F- No!

I get very tired of what happened years ago, lets talk about now!

Do I think all Blacks are like that, NO! I have many Black Friends, have had Black Employees so I am a Bad Person?

It is time some get off of your high horse and find out that when you bleed you bleed red! Da Get It!!!!!!!

Maybe when you all grow up a little then you may contact me!

Then F off! about your Racial Crap!

Maybe when you grow a little, you may find a real life!

I can see that you all postng on here are underpriviliaged, right!?

xp2k · #33 10-27-2002, 03:15 AM

Tom,

I'm trying to think long and hard about this post becuase I know...or HOPE...that you mean well.

However, your post bothers me in a number of ways.

First of all, you are welcome to your opinion about slavery...I certainly have mine...but I dont necessarily think this discussion is about slavery as much as it is about being insensitive to a group of people. (however if you read PRIMARY sources, you'll know that there WAS a difference between what was considered slavery in West Africa, and how it differedm from the European concept. Also, you'll learn that "as many Blacks were instrmental in sending them on slave ships" was not the case at all)

But back to the original argument...

The type of entertainment that involved blackface did NOT put black people in a positive light. In fact, many of those negative stereotypes that were portrayed in minstrel shows are still around, and you probably seee them at least once a week in electronic media.

Blackface IS offensive. And no one is clueless enough to have another device for it.

I'm also confused as to who you're directing your post to?

"Get off your high horse...grow up a little...f off! about your racial crap"?

Complaining about black face isnt immature, nor is it playing the so called "race card".
If these men were truly portraying musicians in such a postive manner, then they wouldnt have tried to hide it...then they wouldnt have tried to hide it. I hope that these pictures come into public hands and I hope that the men responsible are punished.

I have friends in Kappa Sigma here at IU.

Similar to how you dont think all blacks are thieves, I dont think that all Kappa Sigmas are racists. However, I think that people who blatently hurt people (and yes, blackface does HURT) in that manner should be punished, as I think that people who rob and kill should punished.

Munchkin03 · #34 10-27-2002, 10:07 AM

"Then F off about your racial crap"?

I'm just not going to go there. You have NOT lived in this country as a person of colour, so how can you tell anyone what to do with their "racial crap"? I don't care how many of your brothers, friends, ex-girlfriends, whatever, are black...that was just tasteless and immature.

This is stupid how this is going on at campus after campus...it's like a semi-annual thing. Yeah, these people are in "college", but they obviously aren't educated about the history of minstrel shows NOR are they respecting their fellow Greeks (I know of a lot of NPC Greeks who don't consider NPHC members "real Greeks" because they don't know shee-it about what they do and don't care to learn). Blackface was done to be rude, crude, and socially inacceptable to a group of people, and once these meatheads realize that, maybe they wouldn't do it. Or, maybe they would.

Serenity · #35 10-27-2002, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by librasoul22
And there have been people who have donned black skin in an effort to truly live the black experience. They couldn't do it. There is a book about it, but I can't remember the name? Can a GC'er with intact brain cells help me out?

Are you thinking about Black Like Me? I can't remember the author's name off the top of my head, but he took some kind of drug to make his skin black and wrote the book about his experience.

Great post, IvySpice!!

Good discussion overall...

swissmiss04 · #36 10-27-2002, 11:42 AM

I read the book "Black Like Me"some years ago (it's by John Howard Griffith) and it really is amazing how badly this guy got treated simply because of his skin color. Really pretty sick if you ask me. As a Southerner, I admit that race can be an issue, but only for those who MAKE it one. The Auburn incident was well...Auburn what do you expect??

And Tennessee the same thing. It wouldn't happen at Alabama because our greek system is being watched soooo closely for any signs of racist behavior. These idiots who dressed in blackface disgraced their organization and Southerners. The civil rights movement wasn't so long ago and very few people have forgotten what went on down here. Emmitt Till, Medgar Evers, MLK, Selma, Bull Conner and Birmingham...we will never get past all that if people here continue to behave as if it's 1950. I especially didn't like the fact that the Louie Armstrong wannabe claimed he was an Alpha Phi Alpha. That was in very poor taste, in my opinion. I get so tired of race being such an issue around here, but if stuff like this keeps happening I suppose it'll never stop being an issue.

moe.ron · #37 10-27-2002, 12:29 PM

dey is all a crew of idiotic people who does not represent their organitazion right. education means nothin unless dey for real learn life.

swissmiss04 · #38 10-27-2002, 12:45 PM

By the way, to all you Auburn and UT folks out there, don't take my post as "offensive" lol. The roll tide in me couldn't help it.

KSig RC · #39 10-27-2002, 12:55 PM

I think a large part of a problem of this sort comes from simple ignorance - here's a great anecdote about one man's actual feelings and interactions with someone in blackface (even if I don't agree with some of the general conclusions drawn, it's still a good perspective).

Honestly, we'll never know if the guys at UT came with ill intent, dressing in blackface specifically in the minstrel tradition, if they had previous understanding of the impact and feelings of this tradition, or if they knew who Al Jolson was.

Obviously, if they didn't have this understading and showed up wearing shoe polish simply to round out their costumes, it doesn't lessen the impact on those students who they came into contact with - the racial insensitivity remains. However, if this intentional ill-intent was not harbored, I find it to be another sad example of just how little we understand each other on a basic level. I don't know if that makes it better, or worse.

Kevin · #40 10-27-2002, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xp2k

Similar to how you dont think all blacks are thieves, I dont think that all Kappa Sigmas are racists. However, I think that people who blatently hurt people (and yes, blackface does HURT) in that manner should be punished, as I think that people who rob and kill should punished.

I don' t think insensativity should be punishable. That's a dangerous road you go down. Perhaps people in the community should try to educate these individuals... But punish them!?

Hate to tell you but this is America... We don't (and shouldn't) punish people for being offensive. While the act of blackface might be something you see as wrong it's still a right to be offensive. Since the school recieves public funding it should stay out of the debate. The community on the other hand can protest to their heart's content.

VirtuousErudite · #41 10-27-2002, 02:53 PM

I think education is wonderful, however these men had knowledge of prior events that occured on Auburns campus. They had also just attended an educational seminar on racial sensitivity, and I mean less than three days before this occured. I think sometimes people are so wrapped up in themselves that they don't take the time to consider how their actions will affect others and no amount of education will help that.

Kevin · #42 10-27-2002, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirtuousErudite
I think education is wonderful, however these men had knowledge of prior events that occured on Auburns campus. They had also just attended an educational seminar on racial sensitivity, and I mean less than three days before this occured. I think sometimes people are so wrapped up in themselves that they don't take the time to consider how their actions will affect others and no amount of education will help that.

Then it is the community's job to respond and make sure these people know that this behavior is unacceptable. Not law enforcement and not the school which is funded by public money.

A previous poster had suggested that they need to be "punished" and I had a problem with that suggestion since it implied law enforcement/the university had to intervene.

Edited to add:
If Kappa Sigma's HQ feels like these actions deserve consequences I'd imagine they would be in the best position to deal with this.

cash78mere · #43 10-27-2002, 03:37 PM

while what they did wasn't "sensitive", they should NOT be punished. being an idiot and being a murderer/rapist/stalker/etc. are 2 different things. they didn't attempt to kill, harm, etc (except for hurting people's feelings) so they should not be punished. like ktsnake said, that is a very DANGEROUS road to go down. heck, if that was true, people like al sharpton would be punished every day for some things he says

xp2k · #44 10-27-2002, 03:51 PM

Punished for being rude or even offensive...no, there is freedom of speech and expression.

But punished for being stupid and possibly a liability to their national HQ, then yes.

HUGE lawsuits were filed after the Auburn incidents. They were later settled out of court, but who's to say that something like this couldnt break someone's bank.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion, this is unacceptable from educated college men who are suppossed to be leaders in our society.

librasoul22 · #45 10-27-2002, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Damn, get over this color barrier!

I am so damned tired of hearing how Blacks were used by whites as many Blacks were instrmental in sending them on slave ships to many countries, not just the USA!

One of the Best Shows on early TV were with Blacks!

Any of you tell me that there is not a difference is more of a racist than anyone that I know! I see it every day in my shop! I saw it on the PD!

I have been robbed 3 times in 7 days and it was blacks who did it! I also lost a employee. Am I pissed, hell yes! Do you care that some of your own took 1800.00 $ from me as a small business man! F- No!

I get very tired of what happened years ago, lets talk about now!

Do I think all Blacks are like that, NO! I have many Black Friends, have had Black Employees so I am a Bad Person?

It is time some get off of your high horse and find out that when you bleed you bleed red! Da Get It!!!!!!!

Maybe when you all grow up a little then you may contact me!

Then F off! about your Racial Crap!

Maybe when you grow a little, you may find a real life!

I can see that you all postng on here are underpriviliaged, right!?

Tom Earp, you are ignorant. Point blank. You think that just because you have lived more years than some of the people on the board, that makes you better able to understand anything?

Clearly it does not. You are a white male in America, so you really have no clue about any other race's struggles or so-called double standards.

So you got robbed by three black men? If it didn't matter the race (as you stated), then why bring it up?

I am not going to entertain the rest of your rambling because it is downright MISEDUCATED and IGNORANT.

Normally I dismiss your posts because I chalk your prejudice up to you being older, therefore somewhat more traditional in your mentality.

But this post has truly pissed me off due to its total lack of regard for other people's history.

And NOTE TO ALL WHITE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT IF THEY HAVE BLACK FRIENDS THEN THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY ELIGIBLE TO MAKE SNIDE, COVERT RACIST REMARKS, please....that crutch is so overrated. So you have a few token Black friends...goody. How about paying less attention to how "diverse" and "cultured" that makes you, and paying more attention to what they face EVERYDAY as minorities in this country. IT IS AN EYE-OPENER. And some of y'all are so blind. I swear.