Regarding 'shameless plugs'

[PenguinTrax]

Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
And if it's a rush infraction to be communicating with PNMs during rush, then why don't we just delete all the rush threads and solve the problem that way?

It's only an infraction if the intiated member 'talking' to the PNM is in a chapter on the campus where the PNM is experiencing recruitment OR an alumna on that campus assisting with recruitment for her chapter.

Let's not go overboard here.

[shadokat]

I don't necessarily think that the shameless plugs make the PNM feel uncomfortable, but imagine that you're a member of your sorority at XYZ school, and one of the PNMs on here is going through recruitment. You, wanting to be positive and promote your sorority say "Go ABC!!!". Now, when the PNM visits the house, she likes it, and maybe wants to go back. But for whatever reason, your chapter there cuts her. Now, you're saying oh, I'm so sorry they didn't invite you back, I'm sure you're a great girl, maybe there was an NPC error, etc. But the reality of the situation is that maybe your chapter didn't think she fit!! And you're undermining them by saying "Go ABC!!".

Just a thought...

[GPhiBLtColonel]

of this schtick.....to wit:

As a PNM who is about to rush next week, I can honestly say that "shameless plugs" have no effect on me whatsoever... and I have a hard time imagining that these affect anybody with half of a braincell. If rushees are really taking to heart what is being said on a public internet forum so much as to have their decisions swayed, then perhaps those are the rushees are a bit weak-minded.

Shameless plugs, in my humble opinion, are just enthusastic responses from someone who was kind enough to take interest in my rush thread.

and another post:

It's really wonderful that GCers are so concerned over PNMs... but isn't Greek Chat primarily for Greeks, first and foremost?

As a PNM, I appreciate, without a doubt, all of the help and advice that's been given to me on this forum, and yet, I'm also amazed that those of you in a GLO are willing to censor yourselves in a forum that was basically created for those in Greek Letter Organizations... I hope you won't change yourselves to be too "PC" in order to cater to the PNMs on this board, which I think, are far less in numbers than actual Greek members. I love you folks just the way you are

Out of the mouths of PNMs truly come nuggets of wisdom!

I couldn't have said it any better than Annie has done in her two posts above: if you think shameless plugs are truly harmful, then don't do 'em. But if you agree with what Shark-in-skirt has said and that shameless plugs don't matter and if you wanna keep doing 'em, So What?

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by PnguinTrax
Let's not go overboard here.

Dammit, I was trying to make a point of how silly it is to get our knickers in a twist over something like this!

[GPhiBLtColonel]

Ditto -- Achtung Baby -- I totally agree with you!!!!!!

[shadokat]

Nobody is getting their knickers in a twist. They are concerned with issues that ACTUAL CHAPTER MEMBERS will have to deal with from someone on here saying "Go XYZ!". If one of our chapters doesn't want a PNM that's going through recruitment, and they post here, by one of us saying "Go XYZ", we are not communicating the message our sisters of that chapter are trying to say. I'm not worried about PNMs...they're adults who can make their own choices. But as a member of a sorority, what you speak is representative of your group. And if you make it sound as if you want this girl to go to your sorority, but the chapter she's actually rushing at doesn't, you're giving her false hope and conflicting messages. The whole point is think before you speak.

[Bama_Alumna]

I don't see how my saying "Go Gamma Phi!" (when it's a PNM I have never even met!) helps things. These posts just clog up the board and make the rush threads go on and on for pages. I read rush threads to hear about the PNM's experience and what rush is like at different schools, not to read 5 pages of GC members' comments about their own sororities.

I totally agree with this! This is why I don't like to read rush threads any more. I'm not picking on you, GPhiBLtColonel, but every time there is a rush thread, you (and others) post numerous plugs for your sorority. I think it is GREAT that you ladies love your sisters so much, but it gets tiring to read it over and over when I'm really just trying to get to the "good stuff," that is the rush story itself.

I don't really worry about making the PNM feel badly about her choices or her cuts. And I certainly don't feel bad when a PNM drops the local chapter of my sorority. I just figure that she wasn't comfortable there. I prefer when PNMs use chapter names because I think it is great unbiased information for the chapter to use to improve itself.

I also agree with whomever said that we should be thankful that the PNMs are willing to share their experiences with us!

[Lady Pi Phi]

Okay, I would like to make a suggestion. Maybe what we should do when a PNM decides to post a rush thread is keep our questions and comments till the end Perhaps we should wait till the PNM posts where the got a bid, whether they accpeted or not, or in some cases bad news. We should wait until their story is over to post congratulations or condolences. If the PNM has an iimmediate question and would like one of us to answer then she will let us know. I think that way we don't have to worry about posting things that could be potentially offensive or influential, or whatever to a PNM. As well, this way people who don't like to sift through post that only say good luck they don't have to read them. This is just a suggestion, I'm sure some won't like it...that's fine, I'm not saying it has to be law, so please don't yell at me

Emily

[violets]

This is a very interesting thread. Thank you Barbara, for making this suggestion.

I think justamom said it best when she suggested we should err on the side of caution. I also think we should err on the side of kindness, support and Panhellenic values when discussing recruitment with women or men who are interested in becoming members of any GLO.

I have to admit that I somewhat enjoyed the "plugs" members gave their organizations within pnms rush threads; if only because I'm terrible at this vb code nonsense and I admire their ability to use different colors, fonts and sizes at the same time!

However, the absence of these plugs will be no real loss in my reading a rush thread. It was only my nostalgia for my college days that made me smile at the obvious enthusiasm of members giving a "shameless plug" for their organization. I have done one or two myself, I admit.

I think we should remember a few things in this discussion.
One, that Greek Chat provides ample opportunity to express pride in and enthusiasm for, our respective fraternal organizations. There are boards provided for each of our organizations as well as General Boards covering a wide variety of topics. In fact, the Greek Life board often has an open topic asking GC members to discuss what they like or love about their sister or brotherhoods. I for one, enjoy reading about the great experiences of sisterhood/brotherhood from all the other GLO members.

None of us have the ability to truly understand the psyche or experience of any pnm going through recruitment and posting on GC. She may be posting just as a way to blow off steam, or she may be truly struggling with the process and looking for guidance. Its really not for us to say, both scenarios are just presumptions. However, back to justamom's sage advice, err on the side of caution and kindness. If my "shameless plug" made even one pnm uncomfortable in any way, then I am resolved to never do it again, ever. I don't see why I would.

In fact along the same lines, I support anonymity in threads on both sides. I am fine with pnms using just numbers to indicate the houses on their campus. (Of course, in all honesty, I wish they would use colors, or state capitals, or anything else because their is nothing I am worse at than keeping numbers straight in my head .) I find the anonymous threads help to drive home the importance of basic recruitment skills as well as the overall principals that are essential to NPC recruitment. These "anonymous" threads provide an opportunity for all GLO members to identify with the process of recruitment and of a pnm finding a home. Anonymous threads put the principals ahead of the players. I've noticed as well that these threads can often be a bit more "honest," the pnm feels free to say, for example, "House Number One" talked all about their parties with Mu Mu fraternity, it made me uncomfortable." Ah, yes, I can recognize that dilemma and possibly post some advice about that situation.
Having said all of that, that is simply my preference and at the end of the day I believe the pnm posting on Greek Chat has the right to post in any manner she wants. I do not feel that she is here to entertain me. Rather, I think the women who provides us with glimpses of her recruitment is already very generous, I would be loath to demand that she post in the way that I like best. Who am I to demand anything?


But let me get back to what was, I think, Barbara's original point. These Rush threads are wonderful opportunities to support women who have an interest in joining a sorority. It gives those of us who already know the enriching experience of having sisters, a forum for supporting other women on the same path. I have at times, really been taken by certain pnms on this board, and what a wonderful opportunity this board provides to give those lovely pnms support, albeit of the "cyber" variety.


Finally, I think the most significant way to "plug" any of our organizations is with what we say and how we act/react to issues. Take a look at Erica812's journey to begin a chapter of Beta Sigma Phi. She has gotten several emails from GC readers expressing interest in starting their own chapters. I would suggest that this is due to Erica's endless enthusiasm, humor and passion for sisterhood. Those qualities have attracted other women to Beta Sigma Phi. This is a wonderful example of actions and attitudes being the best "plugs" of all.

Greek love,
violets

[AnchorAlum]

I think that since this issue did not even exist 5 years ago, we all need to give ourselves time to develop a protocol during recruitment and this thread is a perfect opportunity. Talk about a learning curve!

I see nothing wrong with adding in your group's motto, a creative signature, etc. but sometimes the PNM's have no experience with sororities, and so anyone who says "I hope you go such and such" may be creating a false expectation for a young woman who could get her heart broken and turn on the Greek system.

My board name gives away my affiliation and that's plenty for me. I love all the input of different groups and different locations. This has been such a fun discovery and I am absolutely pleased at the wonderful and supportive things all of you have had to say during the fall recruitment process. Especially the collegians. You all are such a credit to your groups and to Panhellenic!

[kdonline]

I just got around to reading the last few msgs on this thread..

Originally posted by violets
I think justamom said it best when she suggested we should err on the side of caution. I also think we should err on the side of kindness, support and Panhellenic values when discussing recruitment with women or men who are interested in becoming members of any GLO.

Violets, this was beautifully said.

I think it is very important for GCers to be supportive with more than just a plug for our own house. Most of us have something in our board names or signature files...so unless something more substantial is posted, then why bother? Sure, it's nice to see a plug, but like everyone else, I felt it was irritating to scroll through 50 "go [GLO]" to get to the juicy bits! (and seeing as how there were so many PNMs rushing at my alma mater, I was VERY VERY interested..)

I also question the practice of collegiate members PMing a PNM who is rushing at their school. I know there is no way we can find out, but I think it is our duty here to make sure the PNMs know that they should not really be PMing back & forth with active sorority members from their school. There's no way to tell if "dirty rushing" is going on...but why take that risk?

And of course, collegiate sorority members should know better.

(hmm..perhaps I should've made this last idea a thread of its own?! Maybe it should be stated when rush rolls around again, since many of the GCers here now might not be around then.)

[MTSUGURL]

ON THE OTHER HAND -- I'm not sure about GreekChat being a forum for people to meet at a school. If I met a girl on here who went to Virginia Commonwealth University, and I PMed her and tried to meet up with her, or used our relationship on GreekChat to try and convince her to go Phi Mu....... well, I'd feel horrible. It'd be a true violation of the rush system, which is designed to give everyone a chance to see things equally.

I met a really nice girl (after the week of rush) that I liked alot, that I met when she pmd me to ask if I had joined a sorority. I would have missed this chance if she hadn't.

[GtownGirl98]

What I read is that we all for the most part agree that when reading a thread about rush that we really don't need to see 40 good lucks in there. I know that we all are hoping for the best for the PNMs and that we as a greek society really do hope for the best. So can we please agree to stop adding plugs for our groups, whether we are just saying hello or good luck, just say no.

Two: I don't think that any of this can be misconstruded as infraction material because this is a board for greeks. If this were to become a problem then I feel that we would have to ask the PNMs to kindly not post and that would be going too far. It would be like having an alcoholic go into a bar, and because that person is an alcoholic everyone in the room would have to stop drinking so as not to influence that one person. But I don't think that we should influence that person to have a drink either.

Three: Let us resolve to not post on a rush board, if the person posting is a PNM ( I know that this summer there was a rush board and I think it was mainly from the mother's information, not the PNM's). I think that asking questions is okay, like what was the theme, if the pnm didn't add that or what events are happening when but don't ask what was thought of each group and how would you rank each group. If the PNM offers that info then so be it but don't go looking for it.

So to clarify: 1. Let it be understood that we wish all PNM's best wishes and that they follow their hearts and guts when making their decisions and that it all works out for the best.
2. This is a GREEK CHAT BOARD, we don't hide who we are because of the PNM's (hidding being the sigs and screen names)
3. We allow the PNM's to have a thread of their own, where we won't ask invading questions or opinion questions. Just the facts, please.

I just thought to pull the majority of the opinions together.

[aephi alum]

I disagree with GtownGirl98 in part... as a PNM, I would have loved to start up a rush thread and come back to find 40 good lucks. The "Go XYZ" shameless plugs aren't necessary, but to me, a "good luck" is just that - "Good luck from a member of XYZ".

Not too long ago, a PNM shared her rush story and told us how crushed she was when she received only one pref invite to a sorority she wasn't crazy about. She was ready to drop out of rush. Many of us encouraged her to go to pref anyway - and she's now a happy new member of that sorority. If she had not shared her story and we had not encouraged her to go for it, this might very well not have happened. How can that be a bad thing?

So, no, I don't think we need to do away entirely with replying to PNMs' rush threads - as long as we're careful with what we say, and don't get PNMs' hopes up about our particular sororities.

[kdonline]

Well, how about sending private messages, instead of posting it on the PNM's thread?

And, not that I want to bring more work to the mods, but how about deleting those "good luck" msgs individually when they are posted to a rushee's thread?

I totally understand where both GtownGirl98 and aephi alum are coming from, but it DOES get out of hand..

On many other message board systems I have been on, 1-2 line replies are really frowned upon - if you don't have anything substantial to say, then don't say it.