Priests and Celibacy-What are your thoughts?

[AKA_Monet]

I'm not Catholic... I was raised in a Protestant denomination, Presbyterian... But I have found a connection to my ancestorial Afrikan Spirits--some are the Watoto...

IMHO , it seems the Church is suffering a severe Spiritual nervous Breakdown and Bankruptcy... All of us need to pray right now... The Devil goes to church too , and he knows the Bible better than anyone assembled here!!! He is twisting the Word of God, alienating Priests from Christ and still trying to bring the fall of Heaven... He has make the "children" (now grown) become displeased with their One true Father... That is what I find so sad to me

But it may take some us from the positive energy in the Universe--Shiva/Shakti, Yin/Yang and Ausar/Auset to reinvigorate the Catholic Church and Vatican... If you all don't think so, they why did those Priests from the Church of the Nativity house those Islamic fighters for so long???

God still reigns Supreme... God has His ways and His plan as His will... We mere mortals may not come to realize the full fruition of God's design until we have lost all...

But what do I know? I never gotten the Call... But know I'm Blessed...

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by tickledpink
Here's an article that I agree with. The scandles that we are hearing about are crimes against male children. I don't think lifting the ban on celebacy will change the behavior.

Shortly after reports of the scandal hit the national press, a consensus formed among the prestige media as to its cause: celibacy. Maureen Dowd of the New York Times summed up the consensus: "The vow of celibacy serves as a magnet for men running away from sexual feelings they are ashamed of." She added that "the allegedly celibate society these men enter ... retards their sexual development, funneling their impulses in inappropriate directions."

In essence, Dowd, and the people who agree with her, are saying that not acting on your sexual impulses will warp your personality. This is misleading nonsense.

Celibacy is not the problem. The problem in the Catholic Church is a homosexual problem. In a recent article in the National Review, Rod Dreher writes that the pedophilia scandal "cannot be understood and honestly dealt with" without taking the homosexuality of the accused priests into account.

As Dreher writes, "What we're seeing is gay men who cannot or will not keep their pants up around teenage boys. Not teenage girls. Teenage boys." Even the pro-homosexual book, The Gay Report, noted that 73 percent of gay men have had sex with teenage boys.

This is why changing the rules on celibacy would have no effect. As Bill Bennett has pointed out, such a change will do nothing about a man's sexual interest in other men...
What's needed, as Bennett and Dreher point out, is a systematic examination of the way the Catholic Church selects and trains priests. Dreher writes about a "lavender mafia" within the church that perpetuates a gay subculture, and that's what must be rooted out.

Of course, this will prompt cries of "bigotry" from the very same people who are distorting the issues today. We need to help people understand that it isn't discrimination to hold people to their vows and to uphold the virtue of chastity. We need to remind all Christians that we're all called to present our bodies as a living sacrifice to God. To say Christians can't be taught to live that way is the worst bigotry of all.

Copyright 2002 Prison Fellowship Ministries. All Rights Reserved.[/FONT] [/SIZE]

TICKLEDPINK:

To follow up on that article, if you can get the transcript of Meet The Press from 2 weeks ago, this point was made clear by two Bishops to the moderator Tim Russert. One bishop admitted that at least 30 to 50 percent of Catholic priests are homosexual. When Tim Russert asked him if this was the problem, he said tha he "did not see a problem with having gay priests, they just need to honor their celibacy vows". I was astonished. This was a bishop who was at the meeting in Rome. WTFH? The reason the Pope took no action was because he would have to eliminate a great deal of hi s proesthood to fix the problem. Why not just do the right thing and let married priests lead your congregations.

[straightBOS]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82


TICKLEDPINK:

To follow up on that article, if you can get the transcript of Meet The Press from 2 weeks ago, this point was made clear by two Bishops to the moderator Tim Russert. One bishop admitted that at least 30 to 50 percent of Catholic priests are homosexual. When Tim Russert asked him if this was the problem, he said tha he "did not see a problem with having gay priests, they just need to honor their celibacy vows". I was astonished. This was a bishop who was at the meeting in Rome. WTFH? The reason the Pope took no action was because he would have to eliminate a great deal of hi s proesthood to fix the problem. Why not just do the right thing and let married priests lead your congregations.

The Catholic Church prides itself on being ABSOLUTELY correct (for better or worse). To change what has now become almost synonymous with Catholic priesthood would mean that the Church got it wrong.

Even at the convention, the priests said there would be no zero tolerance (WTF?). Saying in part that if a DRUNK (!?) priest was involved with "an older minor" (!?) in an inapproriate way he did not deserve to be immediately removed. Um, okay....

Think of the children...

[lovele1978]

SILVER SPRING, Md. (AP) - In the latest tragic turn in the abuse scandal that has embroiled the Roman Catholic church, a priest was found hanged at a psychiatric hospital less than three weeks after resigning from his parish amid allegations of sexual abuse.




The Catholic church's problem is not the vow of celibacy (which I don't agree with either) it is their views of sex. Being educated in Catholic schools most of my life it was drummed into our heads that sex is something that a man a woman does only and only for the purposes of procreation. It is amazing that their stance on homosexuality is so rigid when may in the church have admitted that a good number of priests are gay.

What the Catholic Church should be responsible for is getting their so-called "shepherds of the flock" help, not pay off these people hush money! Or just move the offending priests to another parish. If an accusation of "inappropriate" sexual conduct could ruin a teacher's (or just about anyones career), why shouldn't it be the same for priests?

[Riley]

Originally posted by straightBOS


The Catholic Church prides itself on being ABSOLUTELY correct (for better or worse). To change what has now become almost synonymous with Catholic priesthood would mean that the Church got it wrong.

I absoulty agree. the Catholic Church is a powerful force. They hold much clout not only in religion but also in politics. I recieved a catholic education from the time I was in 3rd grade. They never thought you to question what you heard only to hear it and take it as truth. If the church (or the Pope acutally) wre to change the doctrine and say priests could get married that would add a lot of fire to the controversy. It would almost have the chuch saying, yeah we wre wrong so we made a few changes.

[NUPE4LIFE]

I feel as though removing the vow of celibacy is not gonna solve the problem. It's true that there have been some molestation cases involving priest and young girls, but the majority of the cases have involved priest molesting altar "boys". This leads me to believe, like someone else stated, that there is a large number of gay men in the priesthood. That right there is a whole separate issue. I feel that some join the priesthood not just because they were called by God, but because they feel that the vow of celibacy will help them stay "straight". Not gonna happen. Priest are still HUMAN like others have stated, and sometimes man's carnal nature takes over against his/her better judgment. I totally believe the Roman Catholic church knows this, that's why they are tight-lipped. They have enacted the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. For to put a ban on gay priest would result in civil lawsuits, and they would probably lose a small percentage of their membership.

[Steeltrap]

Not exactly related to celibacy, but...

Vatican Excommunicates Seven Women 'Priests'
Mon Aug 5, 8:24 AM ET

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Reinforcing its opposition to female priests, the Vatican ( news - web sites) said Monday it had excommunicated seven women, including a nun, who were ordained in June in a ceremony on a boat in Austria.


An Argentine bishop, not recognized by the Holy See, ordained the Austrian, German and U.S. women in a ceremony, witnessed by 300 people.

This prompted a warning from the Vatican last month, giving the women 12 days to repent.

"Because the women ... did not give any indication of amendment or repentance for the most serious offence they had committed...they have incurred excommunication," Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, a papal right-hand man, said in a press release from the Vatican.

He had earlier branded the ordination "an affront to the dignity of women," saying women had a specific role in the church which was distinctive and irreplaceable.

[AKA2D '91]

The Vatican has ordered priests to assemble again. What are your thoughts about their plans?
It has been reported that a victim cannot bring charges forth after the age of 28. Also, there could be a statue of limitations set, if the measures pass.


UPDATE:
Bishops Approve Sex Abuse Policy
1 hour, 47 minutes ago
By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The nation's Roman Catholic bishops adopted revisions to their sex abuse policy Wednesday that aim to satisfy Vatican (news - web sites) concerns about the rights of accused priests while keeping molesters away from children.



The bishops voted 246-7 with six abstentions to approve the new plan, which stipulates that priests should be removed from public ministry — saying Mass, teaching in Catholic schools, wearing a Roman collar — after "even one act of sexual abuse of a minor."


The policy is virtually assured of becoming church law, binding on all U.S. bishops, after a final Vatican review. Negotiators from the Holy See and United States reworked the policy at the Vatican's insistence after officials in Rome became worried that Americans weren't doing enough to ensure due process for priests.


The bishops, anxious to get past a year of scandal, insist the plan shows they are deeply committed to reform. Victims say it is a major step backward from the original policy.


Chicago Cardinal Francis George, who worked on the revisions, said they balance compassion for victims with fairness to priests.


"We are sometimes asked to choose between the accuser and the accused," he said during the debate before the vote. "We cannot choose one or the other. We have to choose both. We have to love both."


But victims were not satisfied. They said the plan continues the church's history of sheltering sexual predators and abandoning the people they prey on.


"The gulf between bishops and the victims and lay people in the church has grown wider by the vote today," said Barbara Blaine, president of the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests. "Today there's a broader burden on the victims."


The policy allows bishops to conduct a confidential, preliminary inquiry when a molestation claim is made to determine whether it is plausible. If it is, the priest is to be put on leave and go before a clerical tribunal.


Bishops are compelled to obey local civil laws when it comes to reporting abuse claims, but no more than that. The church leaders, however, pledged to report all claims involving children to civil authorities.


The bishops' vote follows 10 months in which at least 325 of the nation's 46,000 priests have resigned or been removed from their posts because of accusations of sex abuse, with cases dating back years or even decades.

Hundreds of lawsuits have been filed this year against dioceses all over the country, and thousands of angry Catholic parishioners have joined reform movements.

At a meeting last June in Dallas, the bishops responded to the public outcry by approving their original policy to crack down on molesters. It stressed bishops' authority to pull priests out of their jobs as soon as an alleged victim made a claim.

That worried Vatican officials, who said the U.S. bishops weren't following global church mandates on protecting the rights of priests. The Holy See withheld its approval of the policy — needed to make it U.S. church law — until the plan was reworked. The joint Vatican-American commission handled the revisions in two days of meetings.

A senior Vatican official said Wednesday that he hadn't seen the document approved by the U.S. bishops, but presumed it was still in line with the changes negotiators agreed upon last month and would win quick approval from the Holy See.

"The climate here is favorable," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The new policy also spells out that the church's statute of limitations requires a victim to come forward by age 28, though bishops can still ask the Vatican for a waiver in special cases.

Review boards including lay people will continue to monitor abuse claims, but the policy reasserts that it is the bishops who have the authority to manage clergy.

Bishop Gerald Gettlefinger of Evansville, Ind., was among the few prelates who said he was opposed to the policy. He was upset that it does not allow bishops discretion to reinstate a priest who had only one offense and had rehabilitated.

George was firm on that point. "I think we have lost that discretionary authority," he said.

The crisis started with revelations last January that Boston's Cardinal Bernard Law knowingly reassigned a priest who had been accused of abuse and quickly spread to other dioceses.

Law, who has taken more criticism than any other bishop this year, said he was voting for the revisions.

"We have a lot of challenges. Our work isn't done," he said. "But thank God we are where we are today. We're in a much better place than we were 10 months ago."

_

[4MYPEOPLE]

As an Anglo-Catholic ( Episcopalian) I can understand first hand what it is like to have all catholic traditions, rituals etc. but be under the church of england, not the Pope (Henry VIII made his own Catholic Church so he could get a divorce) and allow priests to marry. It seems as though it would help the problem not because if you dont get married you feel the need to take out your sexual urges on boys...that is just sickness and nothing could save that, but like someone said earlier, many people, parents, dioceses, religious orders etc. use the church as a place to put men who were either gay (then they wouldnt be able to act on their sexual urges) who seemed to have sexual problems, (hoping that a full dedication of their life to god would help because once again a ban on sex completely) and men who were sexual addicts (once again if they dedicate their life to the lord, it would change). They do this because the vow of celebacy hides their sexual indiscretions from the world. The church is not the place to hide people or save those who have problems and a lift of the ban might change that

[lionlove]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
Not exactly related to celibacy, but...

Vatican Excommunicates Seven Women 'Priests'
Mon Aug 5, 8:24 AM ET

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Reinforcing its opposition to female priests, the Vatican ( news - web sites) said Monday it had excommunicated seven women, including a nun, who were ordained in June in a ceremony on a boat in Austria.


An Argentine bishop, not recognized by the Holy See, ordained the Austrian, German and U.S. women in a ceremony, witnessed by 300 people.

This prompted a warning from the Vatican last month, giving the women 12 days to repent.

"Because the women ... did not give any indication of amendment or repentance for the most serious offence they had committed...they have incurred excommunication," Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, a papal right-hand man, said in a press release from the Vatican.

He had earlier branded the ordination "an affront to the dignity of women," saying women had a specific role in the church which was distinctive and irreplaceable.

Sorry to invade your forum but this is something that really pisses me off. Apparently it's acceptable to leaders such as Cardinal Law to keep repeat sex offenders in the Catholic clergy but once a WOMAN is ordained, they are excommunicated.

Luckily there is a group in Boston standing up to Cardinal Law. I think they're called "the voices of the faithful" and they are raising money in order to help Catholic carities that are suffering because of the money going to settle lawsuits. Sadly though, Cardinal Law refuses to allow Catholic charities to take this money because it is a threat to his power.

[beauty_6049]

I think there should be a lift on the vow of celibacy since there seems to be a huge problem with the alledged sexual abuse of children. This topic is interesting to me solely because I am currently taking a Criminology course and we are now focusing on sexual offenders. It is said that most sex offenders have been sexual offenders for a long time but they just have not been caught. Sexual offenses are more psychological than they are behavioral, so if the vow of celibacy is undone, will there really be less sexaul attacks on children, or will it still continue? By making it ok for priests to marry or have relationships with the opposite sex help our community or are their addictions deeper than that to the point where the lift of the vow is pointless? Makes me think!