Transgender women in sorority life?

[anna7363]

I was talking about my 14 year old biological sister. I'm sorry I thought that was implied by the age

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

That is not at all what Title IX addresses, AGDee. Title IX does not dictate that a sorority is forbidden from initiating men. Social sororities are EXEMPT FROM Title IX rules.

Title IX says, in essence: "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance."

If a chapter of a sorority wanted to accept a transgender woman, they would be subject to the rules of the sorority, not Title IX rules.

Right, but there is an argument that if some men are initiated, then a sorority could lose its Title IX exemption. The argument would be that by initiating some men, they could not decline to initiate other men simply because they're men.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by anna7363

I was talking about my 14 year old biological sister. I'm sorry I thought that was implied by the age

Your first post was about informal recruitment of a transgender. Not clear as to whether this was a hypothetical situation or something real. Later you discussed your sister.

I'm a little puzzled and baffled as to where this is going. As it stands now, this is an issue yet to be decided or resolved.

ETA: Each sorority has its own rules regarding membership selection. We abide by those rules.

[Dnpgopenguins]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

On a related point, would a physician be willing to perform gender reassignment surgery on a minor? Obviously, parental permission would be a requirement (just as it would be for any medical procedure), so I'm just wondering what the ethical implications are in performing such a significant procedure on an individual who is still growing and maturing. Some of the trans people that I'm friends with don't want to fully transition (for various reasons). What might sound great to a 15 year old may not sound good for a 25 year old. Or it might still continue to sound good 10 years later, and a decade has been lost living with the wrong biological sex.

I read a paper on reassignment surgery for kids age 9ish. I guess doctors think it is easier at a young age. I think that is horrible, because of the implication. Like if parents wanted a boy but had girls, oh we will just take her to the doctors at age 9 and then we will have a boy. I am not sure what the procedures are in place, but I just think that is way too you.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by anna7363

I was talking about my 14 year old biological sister. I'm sorry I thought that was implied by the age

We are now discussing the larger issue as a whole than your specific issue(s?).

Many of us here are sympathetic to transgendered people. We're not mean alumnae who are out to destroy the hopes of all transgendered PNMs or aspirants. We are interested in preserving our single sex status, and there are legal implications associated with this issue that have to be considered.

[sigmagirl2000]

Originally Posted by snowflakemom

First, you need to let us know if your sorority is a local, NPC, NPHC, professional etc. and what country you are in (for the Title IX rule). Otherwise we don't know what guidelines apply.

Second, something in this situation doesn't ring true to me. You had this situation in your sorority AND your 14 year old sister is transgender? Maybe it's just my part of the country but transgender isn't that common in young people.

The high school where I teach has at least 7 transgendered students I can think of. 3 are legally transitioned. I do not know if they have had surgery, but I do know that legally they are changed in our systems..... And that's just a public high school of 1800ish students.... Thus it IS possible....

[Sororitysock]

Anna isn't a sorority member. She's a trans woman who's bringing a tall tale to this site for some trollish reason. It takes about a minute of research to figure out who she is.

[anna7363]

I'm done with this thread, my original point has clearly been lost on everyone here. And there are people here convinced I'm a liar. To clarify what I meant earlier about my "14 year old sister" for anyone who wants to continue this convo. They are two different people. First you have the girl who rushed for my sorority but I also have a 14 year old biological sister who is transgender. I was expressing how depressing it is that she will never have the same opportunity in life as others. Which is why the situation with the first girl who rushed my sorority hit home so hard with me

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by anna7363

I'm done with this thread, my original point has clearly been lost on everyone here. And there are people here convinced I'm a liar. To clarify what I meant earlier about my "14 year old sister" for anyone who wants to continue this convo. They are two different people. First you have the girl who rushed for my sorority but I also have a 14 year old biological sister who is transgender. I was expressing how depressing it is that she will never have the same opportunity in life as others.

The original point is that you completely fabricated this story. You are not a sorority member. None of it it true.

[anna7363]

how am I a fake? You have just said I'm a fraud but you have presented no evidence

[AZTheta]

I thought you said you were done?

[anna7363]

good point, I'll stop now. I get egged on easy

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by anna7363

So I'm going to preface this by saying I'm not going not say what the chapter, sorority, or college this happened at for the privacy of all involved. Essentially what happen is we had this transgender girl rush for our sorority through informal recruitment. She looks great, is very sociable, and seemed to fit in with the girls great. Honestly I would have said if we didn't know she was trans I would have considered her a steal. Like I don't think it is a stretch to say she would have easily been a "top tier" girl if no one knew she was trans.

However, despite the fact she looked so good we knew she was trans when she started rushing for us through guys in our partner frat who had known her when she was a guy. So long story short about 90% of the sorority wanted to let her in because she was such an amazing steal by getting her during informal recruitment. But 10% of the girls however were really against it, they were viciously prejudice against her. I frankly felt the way the acted was unwarranted but maybe thats just me.

So basically what then happen was that they decided they were going to break the rules and not have a vote on this girl because they knew she'd get in if they let a vote go through. They did this and the girl never got in. Honestly I think its kind of BS because she was such a great fit and would have really helped out house in recruitment next year but yeah. So I'm on here to ask what you all think and what you would have done?

First things first: How does someone have a join date of 11/30/2012 but doesn't have a first post until today? I've said it before about other posters (who were undeniable spammers) but I think there's something screwy.

Second, to address the OPs question "So I'm on here to ask what you all think and what you would have done?"

I'm pretty sure I would have fallen into the 10%. If the person is not in fact a woman, he is not eligible to be considered for membership. Therefore, no vote is required.

If the person has completed transition and is physically and legally a female there'd be a whole mess of worms to deal with now wouldn't there?

From a sorority perspective, we don't ask PNMs to hike up their skirts and show us their lady parts. I signed a lot of stuff as a pledge. Maybe something attested to the "yup, I totally meet the requirements", including the fact that I'm a she.

Will there come a day when transgendered people are embraced in society as much as homosexuals are today in comparison to 20+ years ago? I don't doubt it. But sorority membership isn't where that will begin.

As far as I'm concerned, a young transgender/sexual person has way bigger chickens to fry.

To the OP, it's great that you're concerned for your sister's future prospects at happiness. That shows you're a good person. But getting snippy with strangers on the internet won't impact her life.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Title IX is a law, passed by the US legislature and signed by the President. Unless we want all our organizations to go fully co-ed, we are unable to initiate someone who is biologically male. We didn't make the law except that we did fight to keep our single gender status. It is unfortunate, but until someone was fully transitioned, we could not initiate them.

So, here's a question (posed to everyone, not just AGDee). What about an initiated sister (born female) who transitions to male post initiation?

I ask because I was looking over some SAI policies the other day and came across our transgender policy (didn't even really know we had one). It would appear that at the collegiate level, we will only initiate women who are legally and medically female. However, if at some time after initiation, the member elects to transition and identify legally and medically as male, the Fraternity requires that her membership category be changed to the appropriate Distinguished Member category. The member is required to turn in her collegiate badge, membership card, & certificate. Following the appropriate Distinguished Member ritual, the member would wear the Distinguished Member badge and remain in that category of membership.

[misscherrypie]

I thought about this subject when I became friendly with a trans person who identified as she during my last year of undergrad. I know that our school paper covered her story and that of other members of the trans student population and it got me to thinking.


I've never heard of a trans person pursuing membership in my sorority. Since Title IX is almost irrelevant in the case of my org due to the lack of collegiate chapters, I don't know if being transgender would ever or could ever be a reason for denial of an invitation to membership in Beta. I've also never heard of a sister of Beta Sigma Phi transitioning as a male legally and medically.