LSAT's - Page 3

AGDee · #1 10-15-2012, 09:32 PM

Nothing to add to this conversation except that when I was researching the Michigan Supreme candidates for the upcoming election, I noted that one of them attended Cooley. Should I not vote for him?

KDCat · #2 10-16-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

Nothing to add to this conversation except that when I was researching the Michigan Supreme candidates for the upcoming election, I noted that one of them attended Cooley. Should I not vote for him?

He's probably not a great legal scholar. He may be a great judge, though. Some people are really good at cutting through technicalities to the heart of a problem. He may also have political biases that you like. Ie. He is more or less pro-business, pro-worker, anti-abortion, pro-GLBT rights, whatever.

Kevin · #3 10-16-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDCat

He's probably not a great legal scholar. He may be a great judge, though. Some people are really good at cutting through technicalities to the heart of a problem. He may also have political biases that you like. Ie. He is more or less pro-business, pro-worker, anti-abortion, pro-GLBT rights, whatever.

Wow. You know all of that without knowing anything but where he went to school? You're kind of coming off like a school snob.

Here in Oklahoma, one of the brightest justices we've ever had, Justice Opala, went to a then marginally accredited (and now still T4) school and did just fine. There's nothing magic in the water at higher ranked schools which makes people brilliant scholars. They just accept based on LSATs and GPAs--neither of which are 100% accurate methods to pinpoint the best legal minds.

I went to an evening program at a T4 school and every one of my classmates in my social circle had no problem finding jobs or doing what they always wanted to do anyhow--hang up a shingle.

Not all of us are even slightly interested in big law.

AGDee · #4 10-16-2012, 06:32 PM

Wow, I didn't know my "tongue in cheek" question would cause such a debate! I was pretty much joking because whenever people here talk about "bad" law schools, they mention Cooley.

With that, I will say... I know that law schools have these tiers and all, but so do high schools. Some high schools are known to produce scholars and others are not. That doesn't mean that a very bright kid can't graduate from that school and do great things. Sometimes people continue learning on their own. Sometimes they get great experiences or mentors who help them learn more. Two kids can sit in the same classroom and learn very different things, depending on their own skills and interests. Some kids make an effort to learn more than is presented in class. I would suspect that is also true of law schools and law students.

Kevin · #5 10-16-2012, 07:48 PM

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adpimiz · #6 10-30-2012, 10:16 PM

I have wanted to be a lawyer since I was a child and plan on pursuing my dream. I'd like to go to a top Law School, if possible, to up my chances of getting a job. My parents also are both lawyers and would be able to help me find a good job.

I will be taking the LSATs in less than two years and am quite nervous!

Psi U MC Vito · #7 12-28-2012, 07:01 PM

Rather then start a new thread, I decided to just turn this into the general law school thread. I have a question for you lawyery types. Is anybody familiar with programs that allow somebody to achieve a Canadian LLB or JD and an American JD at the same time?

KSigkid · #8 01-08-2013, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Rather then start a new thread, I decided to just turn this into the general law school thread. I have a question for you lawyery types. Is anybody familiar with programs that allow somebody to achieve a Canadian LLB or JD and an American JD at the same time?

I have very little knowledge of any such programs, but I seem to remember that NYU at one time did a joint program with a Canadian university. I'm not sure if they still do.

adpiucf · #9 10-12-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

I'm sticking with my position that it can still be smart to go to law school if you get into the top 14, you get a hefty scholarship, someone else is paying, you have a guaranteed job waiting for you when you graduate, or ideally, more than one of these factors. But even those folks should proceed with caution.

Your position is completely wrong when it comes to the T14 assertion since the recession and its subsequent fallout, but I'll agree with if all of these factors are present.

Law school is not a safe bet for anyone unless you're going for free, have a hefty trust fund, and have no intent of practicing law for a salary when you graduate. And if you have that kind of money, go play around Europe for three years rather than sitting in a classroom learning how to read cases.

ETA: If these warnings save even ONE person from a lifetime of being saddled with an impossible six figure student debt, I'll keep posting the very true doom and gloom associated with a law school education today. Law school is fun, and practicing can be great, no doubt about it. But it is the worst investment you can make with your life these days because the cost is astronomical and payoff is very unlikely-- and if I can talk just ONE of you out of making that mistake, I think I will have done a very good deed.

ASUADPi · #10 10-12-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adpiucf

ETA: If these warnings save even ONE person from a lifetime of being saddled with an impossible six figure student debt, I'll keep posting the very true doom and gloom associated with a law school education today. Law school is fun, and practicing can be great, no doubt about it. But it is the worst investment you can make with your life these days because the cost is astronomical and payoff is very unlikely-- and if I can talk just ONE of you out of making that mistake, I think I will have done a very good deed.

That is how I sometimes feel about my Bachelors and even Masters degree. I just got a note with my balance and I will be paying the same amount in interest as the loan itself! Sometimes school isn't worth it, but there are jobs that you can't even have without it.

adpiucf · #11 10-13-2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

You may disagree with me, but I don't think you have more information about the T14 than I do. I am closely involved with more than one institution in that group. A large majority of graduates still do well, even coming out of Georgetown, to say nothing of HYSNCC. It's not the sure bet it used to be, but it's still a reasonable risk for many people. I just don't agree that everybody borrowing to go to Cornell or Duke is a sucker. It's case by case.

I am closely involved with many, many graduates of T20 and T10 schools who have graduated in the past 3 years. A lot of them graduated with great grades, law review, and are doing doc review for a living because following the 2L summer clerkships, the economy tanked, their offers were revoked or they were no-offered entirely due to economic factors. Or they never got that summer clerkship because hiring dried up completely after the massacre of the summer classes in 2009. There are a lot of very smart, very capable grads of top schools out there who can't find work.

I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you over who knows more graduates of top law schools. LOL. You're welcome to your assertions, as I am to mine, but I urge all would-be lawyers to actually review and research the stats (which are widely available via a google search) out there. The numbers speak for themselves. Law school is no longer a good investment. Tuition is inflated, jobs are scarce, and the schools are overstating their job placement stats.

glittergal1985 · #12 10-13-2012, 08:35 PM

I have to jump in to mention that even if you are the lucky one out of 500+ super qualified applicants to land that clerkship, the future isn't very bright. Many end up working somewhere for free with the hope of eventually getting a paying job.

KDCat · #13 10-14-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

You may disagree with me, but I don't think you have more information about the T14 than I do. I am closely involved with more than one institution in that group. A large majority of graduates still do well, even coming out of Georgetown, to say nothing of HYSNCC. It's not the sure bet it used to be, but it's still a reasonable risk for many people. I just don't agree that everybody borrowing to go to Cornell or Duke is a sucker. It's case by case.

The ABA has a database with the reported employment rate for every law school. It's sortable by percentage of graduates employed.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/

Kevin · #14 10-16-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

The only thing she even guessed at was that he's probably not a great legal scholar, which I agree with.

If he was straight out of school, maybe you'd have something--and I'm not even sold on that. The difference between the actual instruction going on at various law schools of different tiers is not all that different.

This is someone who likely has a very lengthy resume though. To simply assume that because he graduated from Cooley, he's not a great legal scholar is assuming an awful lot without really any evidence to back it up.

MysticCat · #15 10-16-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

You are misreading KDCat's post. She didn't claim to know anything about him. The only thing she even guessed at was that he's probably not a great legal scholar, which I agree with.

And which I agree with Kevin is bunk. I know morons who went to Harvard. I know very good legal scholars who went to schools that don't make the top 100 list.

I work with one of those lawyers who thinks that all the "legal scholars" went to T20 schools. His reliance on this snobbish theory (and it is snobbery with him) has proven unfortunate more than once.