Coat of Arms vs. Crest

[DrPhil]

At least he didn't deny being Tom this time.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

At least he didn't deny being Tom this time.

Progress?

[pshsx1]

Although we call it a crest when talking about the coat of arms, we know there's a crest, a shield, and a scroll. We have a whole section of our by laws detailing publications and insignia so I've never heard of any confusion.

[chopperdude]

from the lca pedagogus in a shorter verson.
the crest is made up of many parts.
1 crest is usually a decoration of the/for the helment to protect against sabre cuts.
2.helemt if used were hung above their sheilds..
3 mantling were hung ariund the sheild. mantlings were their robes.

while with the lca coat of arms there are many other parts, these are the basics. i had forgoten much of it. glad someone brought this up so i could go back and study up on it.
thang goodness for turkey day break from classes and read something more fun.

[pshsx1]

Also, I know our coat of arms was changed one time because the original design was not correct by heraldic standards.

[pshsx1]

For a long time, however, Sigma Phi Epsilon displayed a coat of arms which was not heraldically correct. The original design was adopted in 1908 at the Chicago Conclave... In 1933, Mark D. Wilkins, Oklahoma State ’30,then a Field Secretary for the Fraternity, consulted Arthur E. DuBois, in charge of the heraldic work of the United States Government, and the new and revised coat of arms was subsequently accepted.

Anyone else have theirs corrected by DuBois?

[naraht]

Our original Coat of Arms was somewhat different than today.

Original


Current


Note, I'm not sure if the original actually was black and white or not, still investigating.

Also, for the current one, *sometimes* the drops in the squares in the upper left part of the shield are two over one rather than one over two (so they are like the Original)...

[Gusteau]

The two over one/one over two discrepency is interesting naraht - does APO specify which is correct today?

Also, I'm on an epic quest to find Butterfield's College Fraternity Heraldry via interlibrary loan so if anyone knows if their library has it I would really appreciate the tip - thanks!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

The two over one/one over two discrepency is interesting naraht - does APO specify which is correct today?

Also, I'm on an epic quest to find Butterfield's College Fraternity Heraldry via interlibrary loan so if anyone knows if their library has it I would really appreciate the tip - thanks!

Not in so many words. They show the image with one over two as the correct coat of arms, but... The old one was two over one and occasionally you'll find in various places two over one. The Fraternity used to sell blankets with the Coat of Arms and the Key and on *that* it was two over one. Also, at least when I was at our National Office 15 years ago, the plaster casting of the coat of arms beside the front door was two over one... I need to get access to some of the older fraternity magazines after the change from old to new.

Also, both two over one and one over two would fulfill the description of the meaning of that fraternal element in the ritual.

As for Butterfield's book, Google has snippets at http://books.google.com/books?id=SlpDAAAAIAAJ and worldcat shows Libraries that say they have it at http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/774775

[DUKyleXY]

Delta Upsilon's Coat of Arms is set forth in the Laws of the Fraternity and are thoroughly blazoned. There is generally little confusion of terms because our membership manual devotes an entire appendix to Heraldry and Insignia. The blazon is listed on the fraternity's Wiki-article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Upsilon

The coloring on the wiki-article image is off, the best version is from the DU Educational Foundation website:

[Gusteau]

I was curious as to whether or not APO specified the arraignment, obviously if the significance is unchanged I suppose it doesn't matter too much. And thanks for the links - I don't know why I didn't think of the Library of Congress in the first place!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I was curious as to whether or not APO specified the arraignment, obviously if the significance is unchanged I suppose it doesn't matter too much. And thanks for the links - I don't know why I didn't think of the Library of Congress in the first place!

I know, but still personally annoying to see done both ways, and I'm on the National History Committee, so well within my purview of annoyance.

Good luck!

[3AH80]

Originally Posted by naraht

I've found that my National Fraternity (Alpha Phi Omega) is *very* confused about the terms "Coat of Arms" and "Crest", using the terms interchangably to refer to the Coat of Arms.

Here is some interesting detail/background on the Shield of Iota Phi Theta...

"The Shield of Iota Phi Theta (significantly, not a "crest" or "Coat of arms") is the most commonly used symbol of the Fraternity. Its connotation, or meaning, is revealed by the initiation ritual. It is considered Heraldically Incorrect and this is so by design. This is a testament to the desire of the Founders to create symbolism that would represent an organization dedicated to embodying a fresh approach.

The Heraldic Blazoning of Iota Phi Theta's shield is as follows:
"Brunatre a border Or, on an inescutcheon Brunatre bordered Or the Greek letters Iota Phi Theta of the last, in chief a cross Sable alight with twelve rays Or, a candle alight Gules with five rays Or, a Centaur Vert with eyes Gules, in base five mullets Or."

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by 3AH80

It is considered Heraldically Incorrect and this is so by design. This is a testament to the desire of the Founders to create symbolism that would represent an organization dedicated to embodying a fresh approach.

Very interesting - it definitly goes along with your motto, etc.

[pshsx1]

Bump!

I am going to post in this thread later today.. I just don't want to dig for it.