An Around the World Fall 08 Recruitment!

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by srmom

I know that times have changed and that every campus and organization's policies are different. But, is it usual for a chapter to keep a legacy until the night before pref and then drop her?

Back in my day, as a courtesy, chapters would let legacies go early in the process so as to not have hurt feelings (or at least try to be kind).

Originally Posted by annabella

I thought that was a little sketch too.... if there's any sort of red flag with a legacy, wouldn't you give them the courtesy of making a decision quickly instead of possibly leading them on? Although there's really no way to know what this situation was.

Originally Posted by Blondie93

It has been a few years for me too, but I will say that one chapter on my campus did routinely cut legacies after 3rd round (the round before pref). This was apparantly allowed by their nationals, as this was the type of chapter to follow the book on everything, and they routinely won national awards. I won't name the GLO in case that is somewhat private info for them, or in case it is the chapter in question in this thread.

If Recruitment is four (4) rounds, you only have three (3) times to release a PNM. Many NPC organizations (to my knowledge) require that a legacy is invited to the first invitational round. So, really, you are only keeping them one extra round.

I realize that in Recruitment terms, one more round of invites before being released can feel like you are being "led on." However, I would want my chapter to give my daughter as many chances as possible to connect with them. Likewise, I encourge collegians to take a long, hard look and really think it over before the release a legacy. An extra invitation might really be an extra opportunity for the chapter to connect with a legacy.

[srmom]

Thanks for the info. I learn something new every day!

I would guess that policy makes for a few angry phone calls from mommies and grannies!

And yes, "a part" and "apart" are two different things, as are "then" and "than" - my personal pet peeve.

[littleowl33]

I really enjoyed this story - I'm sorry to hear it didn't end so well for you. So you'll be going through recruitment this fall as a sophomore, correct? Keep us updated! I'm sure most GCers would agree that it will be more difficult the second time around, but as long as you know that going in and you're mentally prepared for it, you've got nothing to lose.

Honestly - if you want to be in a sorority as much as it seems you do, and you end up with New York again (and there's a very good chance you might), give them a chance. Early in your story you said that you enjoyed talking to the sisters. Sometimes that *connection* isn't an immediate thing - I know of a lot of women who joined the sorority they didn't think they clicked with, only to grow to love it over time. This coming recruitment is probably your last chance to go Greek, so whatever group you end up with, it's worthwhile to accept your bid and give it a try.

[gee_ess]

Regarding the release of legacies, there are actually two ways of looking at it.

If the legacy is relatively unknown to the chapter (out of state, for example) the chapter might actually keep her around longer so several members can meet her.

However, I do understand the concept of releasing a legacy early so she can look elsewhere. I just varies by chapter and, I think, by pnm.

Good luck, Strawberry Gloss. I do have concerns that you are holding out for only one or two houses. And, if it becomes known that you are going back through recruitment only to hope for a bid from those two houses, then the other groups on campus will be insulted resulting in heavy cuts. Let it be known that you are open to all houses...

[tld221]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

Good luck, Strawberry Gloss. I do have concerns that you are holding out for only one or two houses. And, if it becomes known that you are going back through recruitment only to hope for a bid from those two houses, then the other groups on campus will be insulted resulting in heavy cuts. Let it be known that you are open to all houses...

So she'd have to lie about her intentions? If chapters (esp New York, Barcelona, and LA) remember her from the past year, wouldn't saying "I'm open to any house" contradict the way she ranked houses before? Why can't she "be herself" and be clear about where she's interested in? If anything, if I was a NY sister and she took a bid from my house after she was offered one the year before... Well I think its kinda like begging. She said no before, why ask again?

Rush is a mutual selection-houses don't have to be open to every PNM and conversely PNMs shouldn't have to be open to every house, especially since OP has already cut (and had been cut) from most houses.

I just think the whole "just try NY you may fall in love" is not setting the OP (or any PNM for success. That's like going out with a guy you don't really like because he keeps asking you out and calling. Its like "you got a bid from one house, so you should take it."

[littleowl33]

Originally Posted by tld221

I just think the whole "just try NY you may fall in love" is not setting the OP (or any PNM for success. That's like going out with a guy you don't really like because he keeps asking you out and calling. Its like "you got a bid from one house, so you should take it."

Mmm, I don't agree with this. My chapter was in a "New York" situation when I first joined and a number of my pledge sisters were less than enthusiastic about accepting their bids. These same girls got extremely involved, have all held high-ranking officer positions and learned to love the chapter while helping to immensely improve it. Heck, I was one of them! I went through recruitment with my heart set on another chapter, but re-rushing at my college doesn't yield any different results due to the "once-cut, always-cut" situation. I accepted my bid and haven't looked back.

And in terms of the dating analogy - you can date without getting married! I'm a big advocate of trying out the New Member period and dropping before Initiation if it truly doesn't work out*. I don't know of any group of sorority girls so heinous that a NM couldn't stand to hang out with them for a month or two (but I do know a few guys like that... ).

*This is only if you know you are not going to have another shot with a different chapter. If you might, then your chances could be ruined if you join one group and de-pledge before Initiation.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by littleowl33

Mmm, I don't agree with this. My chapter was in a "New York" situation when I first joined and a number of my pledge sisters were less than enthusiastic about accepting their bids. These same girls got extremely involved, have all held high-ranking officer positions and learned to love the chapter while helping to immensely improve it. Heck, I was one of them! I went through recruitment with my heart set on another chapter, but re-rushing at my college doesn't yield any different results due to the "once-cut, always-cut" situation. I accepted my bid and haven't looked back.

And in terms of the dating analogy - you can date without getting married! I'm a big advocate of trying out the New Member period and dropping before Initiation if it truly doesn't work out*. I don't know of any group of sorority girls so heinous that a NM couldn't stand to hang out with them for a month or two (but I do know a few guys like that... ).

*This is only if you know you are not going to have another shot with a different chapter. If you might, then your chances could be ruined if you join one group and de-pledge before Initiation.

I think the bolded is where I strongly disagree-i find a problem with "learning to love your chapter." Hate to go back to marriage analogies, but it feels a LOT like an arranged marriage-the whole "the love will come later" attitude.

I think if there were less women joining chapters in hopes of "learning to love" their new home, you'd have less new members wanting to depledge. And maybe in the grand scheme of things, its a really small percentage of women this happens to. Not all women are going to get their first (or even second or third) choice. But to accept something you really didn't want, and then having to grow to like it... You want greek life that bad you'd settle?

[littleowl33]

Originally Posted by tld221

I think the bolded is where I strongly disagree-i find a problem with "learning to love your chapter." Hate to go back to marriage analogies, but it feels a LOT like an arranged marriage-the whole "the love will come later" attitude.

I think if there were less women joining chapters in hopes of "learning to love" their new home, you'd have less new members wanting to depledge. And maybe in the grand scheme of things, its a really small percentage of women this happens to. Not all women are going to get their first (or even second or third) choice. But to accept something you really didn't want, and then having to grow to like it... You want greek life that bad you'd settle?

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I didn't "settle" for my sorority. It wasn't my first choice going in, but it wasn't a group so bad that I didn't want to be a part of it. And yes, I grew to love it. Looking back, I can honestly say I wouldn't change a thing.

If a group was truly a terrible fit and spending four years there would be a bad experience - then no, it's better to be independent. But honestly, I don't think a PNM could determine a group was *that* awful just from three or four 30-minute interactions. If a woman truly wants to be in a sorority (as it seems the OP does) and didn't have really awful interactions with the sisters in question (which the OP didn't), I think she should give it a try.

I also think you're greatly underestimating the number of women who learn to love their chapter, but then again that may vary from campus to campus. All the groups on my campus, from the most to least desirable, have the same de-pledging rates (usually one or two women every year). If women were settling for less desirable groups and then dropping out because it was so bad, that wouldn't be the case.

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by tld221

So she'd have to lie about her intentions? If chapters (esp New York, Barcelona, and LA) remember her from the past year, wouldn't saying "I'm open to any house" contradict the way she ranked houses before? Why can't she "be herself" and be clear about where she's interested in? If anything, if I was a NY sister and she took a bid from my house after she was offered one the year before... Well I think its kinda like begging. She said no before, why ask again?

I am not encouraging her to lie...I am encouraging her to keep her options open. Her first recruitment was tough and, depending on her campus, she could be at an even bigger disadvantage as a sophomore. I do not want her to go into this year's recruitment dead set on two houses (which is kind of what happened last recruitment) and be disappointed if that does not work out again. Conversely, there are other houses on campus other than the three she routinely cut that might be be looking at her unless they have already heard she is after xyz and abc only.

She should definitely be herself...but a successful recruitment involves more than that - otherwise there wouldn't be a need for so many advice threads in the world!

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by tld221

I just think the whole "just try NY you may fall in love" is not setting the OP (or any PNM for success. That's like going out with a guy you don't really like because he keeps asking you out and calling. Its like "you got a bid from one house, so you should take it."

Originally Posted by tld221

I think the bolded is where I strongly disagree-i find a problem with "learning to love your chapter." Hate to go back to marriage analogies, but it feels a LOT like an arranged marriage-the whole "the love will come later" attitude.

I don't think the arranged marriage or dating analogy really works here. A sorority isn't the only activity or only source of friendship for young women, unlike a marriage where that one person IS your only romantic relationship.

I strongly believe that many women will grow to love their chapters if they didn't initially. That being said, it requires the genuine effort to meet most of your new sisters so you can find your niche among them and within the activities of the chapter. You have to give it an honest try.

"Settling" implies that you gave up something better which required a little more effort or patience to obtain, in favor of the quick and easy option in front of you. If one sorority is your only option for Greek life, and you would like the opportunity to be Greek, then I don't think that you've been untrue to yourself or settled for anything.

Additionally, I would say that encouraging women to give their chapters an honest try is in the Panhellenic spirit. Sometimes we have to remember that these PNMs are young women who aren't fully matured and are going through an emotional process, we should be the ones to give them that mature advice.

...And if we DO want to liken it to the dating process... how many of you dated AWFUL guys when you were 18 or 19? C'mon, most of us went for the wrong guys when we were that age because we didn't have the sense to realize who the good guys were yet

[gee_ess]

I think it was the girls really wanted to get to know me, I was just shy. My friends from Barcelona have been trying to give me tips of why I was dropped, and it was just because I didn't talk enough. Other than that they said the house basically would have loved me. (This is if I correctly translated their hints).

Strawberrygloss, for some reason, you have brought out the maternal instinct in me. This comment concerns me because I do not want you to try to sort out or interpret comments (however well meaning) that are made by the members. Yes, it is probably okay to let you know that not enough girls knew you or that you seemed shy, but I am strongly cautioning you to put the past in the past and start anew. Do not try to discuss the why and how of last recruitment. To do so with the members, puts you in the position of receiving info that could ultimately hurt you. For example, The comment that "everyone in the house loved you but you were too shy" implies that next time, they will give you a bid because they all know you better now. Those girls cannot know what will happen next year.And to imply that things will go better if you are more talkative, etc is misleading. Therefore, you will go into rush thinking "They all know me now. I will be a Barcelona for sure!"

I am not telling you this to discount that you may have, in fact, been overly shy and hard to talk with during recruitment, and chances are, this did negatively affect you. I think most repeat pnms learn a lot about themselves, etc during their second recruitment. This may be true for you.

I am only warning you to go easy and let the past recruitment stay in the past. Just make friends with girls. Be a friend so you can make a friend. The rest will come.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

I am only warning you to go easy and let the past recruitment stay in the past. Just make friends with girls. Be a friend so you can make a friend. The rest will come.

This is SO SO SO true - the flip side of telling sororities to make friends with a rushee to be friends with her, not just because she is a potential member.

Make friends with people you feel drawn to and forget as much as possible about the letters they wear.

[littleowl33]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

Do not try to discuss the why and how of last recruitment. To do so with the members, puts you in the position of receiving info that could ultimately hurt you. For example, The comment that "everyone in the house loved you but you were too shy" implies that next time, they will give you a bid because they all know you better now. Those girls cannot know what will happen next year. And to imply that things will go better if you are more talkative, etc is misleading. Therefore, you will go into rush thinking "They all know me now. I will be a Barcelona for sure!"

Just reiterating this. Your friends who just joined have never gone through recruitment on the "other side" (as sisters, not PNMs) and likely do not have a very good grasp of their org's policies on MSS. I've seen it happen a million times:

Group of friends rushes together. All but one friend gets into a desirable sorority. Left-out friend does not receive a bid anywhere, drops out, turns down her bid elsewhere, whatever. Group of friends SWEARS they will "get her in" in the next recruitment, so the left-out friend re-rushes, confident that because her friends have given her tips and are on the other side, she'll get a bid. She doesn't.

And though no one can say for certain what happened, here are the 3 most likely culprits:
- The opinions of 4 friends (who are new, lower-ranking sisters) who like a PNM don't outweigh the opinions of the rest of the older, more respected sisters who cut that PNM for their own reasons last year.
- The chapter has a once-cut, always-cut policy that these 4 friends didn't know about or understand before recruitment begun.
- And the toughest scenario: The 4 friends were being polite when they told their friend they could get her in, when they know that as much as they love her, they could never in a million years see her as an XYZ for any number of reasons.

At this point, the left-out friend either joins a different sorority (usually one of the ones she was left with last recruitment) or stays indepenent. It doesn't mean she can't still be friends with her XYZ friends, but they just won't wear the same letters.

I'm sorry if this sounds unecessarily tough. But honestly, I've only once or twice seen it happen that a PNM re-rushes and gets into the org that cut her before because now she has friends on the other side. And the bid has never been to the "top" groups. *BUT* others may have different experiences - I'm sure they'll chime in.

[gee_ess]

I'm sorry if this sounds unecessarily tough. But honestly, I've only once or twice seen it happen that a PNM re-rushes and gets into the org that cut her before because now she has friends on the other side. And the bid has never been to the "top" groups. *BUT* others may have different experiences - I'm sure they'll chime in.

I actually have seen this happen more than a few times, but like littleowl points out, it is not a "sure thing" to have friends in a house. It helps, but nothing is definite until bid day. So, and I want to stress this, "Do not go back through recruitment with your sights set on ABC or XYZ only."

[MaggieXi]

Also, don't discount that Sororities do talk to each other. All of the groups may very well know that New York offered you a bid, you declined, and went through COB. The campus may be one where the sororities feel you were offered your chance to be greek, and to support the other chapter who did offer you that opportunity, they decline to bid you. This happens on one of the campus' that I help out with.

Of course, there is a flip side to this - a PNM who drops out at Pref and then re-rushes with a better attitude and new self confidence who has friends in various places and has an outstanding recruitment.

Also, I realize you are a legacy to "Barcelona" and you mentioned that your mom was angry that they released you. I hope your mom did not contact Barcelona and tell them how upset she was. This could backfire on you too. There is nothing worse than an irate mom who calls in the middle of recruitment to know why her daughter was released.