Once cut/Always Cut

[aephi alum]

This is coming very close to open discussion of membership selection.

That said, I would hope that a PNM would be given new consideration during her second or third recruitment.

1. She may have been cut for grades the first time around, and she's since brought her grades up.

2. She may have been cut because she didn't know enough active sisters, and she has since gone out and made the effort to get to know actives.

3. The body of active sisters is now different. The seniors who were actives when the PNM last rushed have graduated; the PNM's classmates who pledged that sorority freshman year have now been initiated.

Just a few examples of why once-cut = always-cut isn't necessarily a good idea.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

This is coming very close to open discussion of membership selection.

I agree.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

This is coming very close to open discussion of membership selection.

Except for the fact that many of us have/had friends that say "oh crap, I got cut from XYZ in rush, I really liked them" and then went through rush again, and ended up getting a bid from XYZ.

The OP ASSUMED it was her grades that got her cut, but she doesn't know that for a fact - it could be something entirely random. If she gets a bid from a chapter there, it'll be pretty obvious that they don't have a "once cut, always cut" policy.

We are discussing (at least I am) whether such a thing exists on the national or local level. AFAIK no group has that policy nationally - it would cripple chapters left and right if they did. If people are discussing their own chapter policies on here, well, that's not my problem.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

This is coming very close to open discussion of membership selection.

It's not a discussion of membership selection (for my chapter and my GLO on a national level) because it is not part of our membership selection procedures.

[gee_ess]

I think the simple question of "If I got cut by XYZ last year, will they be interested in me this year?" is fairly safe. If we get into how the selection/voting process actually occurs, then we are in dangerous territory.

Thus far, I think we have given the OP a fairly general, across the board response of what we have seen in our own experiences.

I hope the OP will keep us posted this fall!

[katybelle04]

I would reccommend to not get discouraged, go through recruitment and see how it goes. I rushed the fall of my Junior year, (i transferred from another school and it was my first semester there) and because i was going to be there for another three years I guess it was ok. I would just say be yourself and if you are meant to be there, thats where you will end up! You wont have to force it if it fits. My story is a bit unconventional, but I have also done great things for my chapter (not to be snobby) and I just think it is crummy that some people automatically write people off without getting a chance to know them. I am glad my chapter didn't do that, although I am sure that it happens just as much in my organization as it does anywhere else..

[BadCat25]

At an SEC school like Bama there probably are chapters that are freshman only and never COB and you are just going to have to realize that but that doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a second try. You have nothing to loose.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by BadCat25

At an SEC school like Bama there probably are chapters that are freshman only and never COB and you are just going to have to realize that but that doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a second try. You have nothing to loose.

It used to be that Bama was basically a freshmen only Recruitment. There was the occasional exception but a PNM had to be pretty much be an established superstar on campus with tons of in-house friends.

Several years ago Bama adopted a separate upperclassmen quota to expand the opportunities for them to join a sorority. Now all chapters participating in formal recruitment extend bids to upperclassmen. (Personally I strongly recommend this policy to any highly competitive recruitment campus that has a history of focusing solely on Freshmen.)

You are correct in that there are many chapters that don't COB on a regular basis. Their chapter membership numbers are well above the Panhellenic Chapter Total and simply can't. The exceptions were mostly in those years when Panhellenic Chapter Total was increased.

Due to the ever growing number of PNM's participating in Formal Recruitment we have been fortunate to experience, chapter size for everyone has grown dramatically. We have had at least 2 increases in Chapter Total in the last 5 years or so. The last increase 2 years ago ended up pushing about 6 chapters below total requiring them to COB. Most of these hadn't done it in ages.

Keep in mind though that this was also the reason why our campus chose to expand. Alpha Phi will be coming this fall and Delta Gamma in 2010. So one can assume we will not be increasing Panhellenic Chapter Total any time in the near future. However, these new chapters will offer plenty of opportunity for upperclassmen to join a sorority even beyond the Formal Recruitment Upperclassmen quota.

[gee_ess]

Zillini - Does the separate upperclassmen quota include sophomores? I am familiar with a separate quota for juniors and up, but not sophomores.

Just curious, what was chapter quota last fall for recruitment?

[Zillini]

Yes we call it "upperclassmen quota" but I guess technically "non-freshmen" would be a more accurate term. It is for sophomores, juniors or even seniors.

Off the top of my head last year's freshman quota was 72 and upperclassmen was 6. If my memory isn't accurate hopefully someone will correct me.

One of the bonuses for chapters is Bama's Panhellenic only reports the freshmen quota to our Inat'ls. Therefore the additional upperclassmen are technically considered quota additions. So in theory a chapter could not make freshmen quota, but the additional upperclassemen brings their total number of new members equal to or above what Inat'ls count as quota. Did that make sense?

It's a win/win for everyone. Chapters aren't "sacrificing" a freshmen spot by keeping a soph or jr. Non-fresh are given the chance to go Greek when in years past they were heavily discriminated against. It's almost like having 2 totally seperate recruitments even though the PNMs are all mixed up in the parties. Each round we are given 2 sets of invite numbers, 1 for fresh and 1 for non-fresh. When it comes time to submit bid lists, 2 seperate lists must be submitted.

For example if you are told to invite 900 fresh and 200 upper, you must invite that many. When this was first put into place some chapters were confused by the new system. Some tried to invite say 920 fresh and 180 upper. Panhellenic will call and make you to fix it.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by jessicaelaine

ok. no. i was just saying that in reaction to one situation at my school where a girl rushed about 3 million times even though she kept getting rejected. Now every time she gets the chance she talks about how she "got the door slammed in her face 4 times" by us. She got the pity vote.

I'm confused. So you denied her a bid 4 times THEN she was given a bid out of pity?

[33girl]

There was another group on our campus where a girl was a fraternity little sister with a bunch of the other girls in the group, and it STILL took her 3 times rushing to get in. I'm guessing they told her something like "you know we want you, but we have a chance to get big campus heroine and if we don't snap her up now someone else will. You know we love you though!! It'll be your time soon!!" I didn't like her either, but I think I would have told them to go @#$% in their hat at that point.

[atomicflowers]

Originally Posted by bamagurlie

I went through a very competitive recruitment at a SEC school last year, but dropped out due to cuts which I believe were probably due to my high school grades. I realize no one ever really knows why they were dropped, but let's just assume for now that it's why my recruitment didn't go as planned.

I have great grades as a freshman, and plan to go through again in the fall as a sophomore. I've read all the posts about how I won't have as many options this time and all the reasons, etc. My question is about "Once Cut/Always Cut". I can understand this applying to PNMs that are cut for many reasons, but does it apply to people who were primarily released for grades? I understand now that my high school GPA wasn't high enough, but my college GPA is at/above most of the sororities on my campus. If this is grounds for another "automatic" cut, why bother to try again?

not true. sororities encourage good grades and say if you have better grades the second time around and decide to come through fall recruitment/spring COBs/CORs/whatever, it also shows it also shows them that you really want to be there and that you're willing to try. We have accepted girls who were "cut" the first time around and then come back the second or third time around.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by atomicflowers

not true. sororities encourage good grades and say if you have better grades the second time around and decide to come through fall recruitment/spring COBs/CORs/whatever, it also shows it also shows them that you really want to be there and that you're willing to try. We have accepted girls who were "cut" the first time around and then come back the second or third time around.

This is the University of Alabama. Recruitment there is highly competitive and most likely 180 degrees from what recruitment at your school is like.

They can fill their fall pledge classes with freshmen who have 4.0s and stellar extracurricular involvement without blinking an eye. Sophomores and up were at a distinct disadvantage until (as other Bama alums have pointed out) an upperclassman quota was instituted.

I know you're trying to be helpful but it doesn't really apply in this situation.