Home Schooling Declared Illegal in CA!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

What am I basing that on? Maybe the fact that when I graduated with my B.A. in English I had TWICE as many English courses under my belt than someone "certified" to teach. Maybe on the fact that while I am considered unfit to teach public school, I got to spend 13 years flunking graduates of public school in college. (I can't tell you how many of them couldn't even write a decent paragraph, had no idea what subject/verb agreement was, or a thesis)Or perhaps the 7 years I spent teaching AP English to private school students who went on to become National Merit Scholars, Scholastic Writing Award winners, and Academic team state champions, not to mention the litany of top-ranked schools they went on to attend. Maybe my experience with the education majors who took a few English classes with me as I went for my graduate degree - and who complained about having to write papers every week, and were amazed that we had to write a thesis and have a comprehensive examination - neither of which they were required to do.

So in other words, even though you don't have a high school teaching cert, you were a college professor? In other words, you have TAUGHT others and know how to do it. That's a little different.

The homeschooling parents that I (and most other people) am not cool with are the ones who barely got through HS themselves and have no ability to educate. Just because you know what to do, doesn't mean you can teach others to do it.

I wish that the homeschooling parents who ARE doing it right would crack down on the ones who are doing it wrong. It might have more weight coming from them.

The thing I like least about homeschooling (and school choice in general) is that it seems to be teaching our children that if something doesn't work, just walk away from it - don't try to fix it.

[bejazd]

I'm all for parent involvement and attempting to fix the problems: in my ideal world we'd have great community based schools in all communities...but the reality of it is that some communities either can't or won't support their local schools (for example, making sure your child goes to school fed, bathed, ready to learn and willing to participate in the learning process.) The other very troubling issue I've encountered as my children have gone from kindergarten to HS is that school administrations and teachers say they want parent involvement, yet what they really want is parents to act as booster clubs raising money to pay for the things we parents want the state legislature to budget and pay for: music, arts, science, vocational training etc.

There have been so many times I've been so incredibly frustrated by the bureaucracy of all it. In my community, one HS has gone charter as an attempt by the community to reclaim the school from the lameness of the school district and teacher's union and their constant squabbling. It's almost as if everyone forgot about the students. That's why I'm for school choice- it's the parents last best hope of actually holding educators responsible for getting the job done.

Of course the news here is full of stories of all the teachers that just got warning notices that they could be laid off next fall due to the state's budget crisis. One teacher was on the lamenting that she just couldn't work with this "black cloud" hanging over her, and "all they care about is test scores!" HELLOOO! Yes, everyday, people go to work not knowing if they'll have a job tomorrow, and yes, their employers do care about their performance every day that they are actually getting paid to show up at work. Welcome to the real world.

[Jimmy Choo]

While homeschooling itself is a whole 'nother ball of wax, it sounds like there were other issues in this home. The quality of their schooling only being one.

[honeychile]

SWTXBelle, I agree with you 100%. Pretty much every parent I know who has the time and ability home schools their children. The two biggest arguments against it seem to be that the children aren't properly socialized, and that the parents can't keep up with the school work. Well, I can only speak for those children I know, in California, Texas, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Virginia, but each have VERY strong groups of fellow home schoolers, and they meet at least twice a month - along with the normal scouts, teams, dance, etc. Maybe they aren't socialized like most children - they're all so darn respectful and polite, and not just when someone's looking! As for the material, just take a look at the parents' manuals. Home schooled children are usually MORE prepared for tests and such, since they have to be tested quite often to make sure that they're keeping up.

People don't look to see the "why" of homeschooling; they just see it as being different. We're tolerant of race, creed, and orientation, but not of someone willing to stay home to teach these valuable lessons themselves.

[ZTAMich]

I was homeschooled for a year during 4th grade. The private school I attended became too expensive for my parents and they did not want to throw me into our local public school with the school year already started. I thank them a lot for having the foresight about that. It was only for a year as my sisters were little and my mom was a bit overwhelmed, trying to help me 'go to school' during their nap times. I wasn't very motivated that year. My mom had a teaching background, taught middle school for a while before leaving to be a SAHM.
I knew a family growing up that homeschooled all 3 of their children bc they did not like their local public school. The mom received some training but didn't need a lot since the program they used included videos of lessons for their kids recorded in a real classroom. We all were socialized in a homeschooling group with kids our age a few times a month where we went on field trips, did a science fair, etc. One mom even held French classes in her home which was pretty cool.
I think if parents are unhappy with the public options for schooling they should be able to do what they want. If a private and/or religious school is within their means, that's great. If homeschooling is something they want they should be able to do that as well.
From my teaching perspective tho, I believe that kids today really need a rigorous education and I'm not 100% that a parent, without some kind of teaching education, can provide that no matter how great their intentions are. A lot depends on the curriculum content but also on how it is presented.

[shinerbock]

An outrageous decision for the most part. Once again the government has decided on behalf of families what is best for children.

I'm afraid we're too far gone when it comes to stripping Americans of their autonomy.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

An outrageous decision for the most part. Once again the government has decided on behalf of families what is best for children.

I'm afraid we're too far gone when it comes to stripping Americans of their autonomy.

I do think the government needs to oversee the education of kids in this country, whether that's through public or private schools, or keeping a close eye on homeschooling. Why? Because our whole society pays for it when kids grow up to be illiterate or undereducated adults who can't function in the real world.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I do think the government needs to oversee the education of kids in this country, whether that's through public or private schools, or keeping a close eye on homeschooling. Why? Because our whole society pays for it when kids grow up to be illiterate or undereducated adults who can't function in the real world.

Is there an epidemic of idiotic home-schooled children ruining society? I see plenty of public school grads and dropouts having this impact.

I agree, society has an interest in education. I still don't care. I don't think that everything society has an interest in mandates government involvement. Plus, your assertion seems premised on the idea that we later provide for people who can't function on their own, and I think that shouldn't be the case either.

Protecting society from itself is not something the government will ever do efficiently, and I really wish citizens would stop depending on it.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Is there an epidemic of idiotic home-schooled children ruining society? I see plenty of public school grads and dropouts having this impact.

My point wasn't about homeschooling. I even included it alongside public and private schools. I merely said that I DO think government should maintain some oversight of education, because we all know that without publicly-funded schools, America would be a MESS. Most families nowadays cannot afford to keep one parent home to teach the kids every day for 12 years. And most also can't afford to send their kids to private school for 12 years. So, if the government doesn't mandate that kids are educated, and it therefore stops paying for public schools, what are we to do?

And what do you then propose we do with the adults that are the product of a society that places no real value on education? Poverty, homelessness, welfare, unemployment, etc. doesn't just go away if you close your eyes, you know.

[Army Wife'79]

Aren't all the National Spelling Bee winners homeschooled kids? Many Army kids are homeschooled b/c it's a huge goat rope to move from Korea to Germany to Calif to VA to GA and try to keep some consistency in the education. Field trips to the Smithsonian or seeing an art masterpiece in person in Europe is pretty cool compared to just looking at slides or in books. My kids did private and public but I was always prepared to homeschool if the assignment/location warranted it.
On the flip side, I think it's sad and criminal when lunatic parents don't want their kids going to school b/c of the parent's activities (meth labs, abuse, etc.) and they withdraw them saying they will be homeschooled but they sit and watch tv all day and don't actually learn anything. Those parents need some sort of accountability.

[Thetagirl218]

Wow is all I can say for the responses so far in this thread!

Remember back in the beginning, I said I would eventually share my background on this?

Here it is:

This subject is very near and dear to my heart as I was home schooled since 1st grade up until graduation! It was one of the best experiences of my life! And yes, I did have a choice to be homeschooled or not. In fact, I chose to dual-enroll in college at the age of 16. By the time I was 20, I was done all of my requirements for my degree, and went to complete my teaching internship.

Yes, I said teaching internship. I earned a degree in Secondary Education. I am certified by the State of Florida to teach. So I feel that I have had the best of all worlds. I have been homeschooled, and have taught in both public and private schools. I see the problems and advantages in all three.

As for the issue of home school parents not having the training to teach their children, let me share something from my past. Both of my parents have two year degrees, neither have the proper qualifications in any state to get a teaching certificate, yet I learned so much from them.

Does this mean they knew every thing about every subject? No!

That is why homeschoolers and their parents do think outside of the box and participate in co-ops and other programs where they have classes with people who do have expertise in these subject areas.

And SWTXBELLE is right, home schoolers often rank above the national average in test scores. Stories like mine are not the rare exception as some think.

I also wanted to address that home schoolers for the most part do sit at home in a closet all day. Home schoolers are some of the most active, social people that I know.

[AKA_Monet]

I think this has something to do with money and how it is doled out to the schools. Every kid that attends public school, the more money the district gets out of the State Tax Pie. Home-schooled kids will mean loss of money.

In California, my mother is a retired elementary principal with a Ph.D. in education. My brother is a principal at a high school in California and his ex-wife is a elementary teacher and resourced teacher in California. If anyone can teach children it is these core of people... I don't know what they will do.

[bejazd]

I found some stats on the Calif Dept of Education web site that may add to this discussion:

There are 9.674 public schools in Calif with an enrollment of approx 6.3 million students

There are 294,366 public school teachers
The average teacher-pupil ratio is 1 teacher to 21.4 students. (that's an average, obviously some classes are much larger, with the largest classes in grades 4, 5 and 6 at about 1 teacher to 35 students.)

Of those 9674 schools, 585 are charter schools enrolling about 223,000 students.

There are 3506 private schools in Calif enrolling 584,983 students. The majority of children in private schools are in grades K-8, only 159,736 students are enrolled in private high schools. Among the private schools, about 1/3 are very small with just 6-36 total students.

My local newspaper reported earlier in the week that they don't keep records on just how many students in Ca are home schooled, but it's estimated at about 200,000 statewide.

[SWTXBelle]

The system still receives every cent of my taxes, while not having to provide any services for my children. So, there is more money in the state treasury for education that does not have to be spent on my children. If the problem is how the money is divided, then that needs to be addressed at the state level. But I refuse to feel badly because of the public school systems' mismanagement of funds. The private school at which I taught charged HALF of what the public schools were alloted per student - but that is really a whole 'nuther thread.
Right now I am visiting my folks in Katy, TX, where they literally cannot build schools fast enough - they are bursting at the seams. Were the literally thousands of homeschoolers in the area to register tomorrow, the system could not handle it.
Ultimately, it boils down to this - parents have the ultimate responsibility for their children. It is up to them to decide what is in the best interest of their children - whether it be public or private school, or to teach them at home. I feel that local control is a critical element for public schools - that no one is more committed to seeing local children educated than the principals, teachers, staff, parents and community members who love them and want the best for their community.

[macallan25]

Every home schooled kid I have ever met was weird and socially inept.