GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > Greek Life

Greek Life This forum is for various discussion topics regarding greek life. If you are posting a non-greek related message, please do so in one of the General Chat Topic forums.

» GC Stats
Members: 329,737
Threads: 115,667
Posts: 2,205,067
Welcome to our newest member, juliafrances374
» Online Users: 1,585
0 members and 1,585 guests
No Members online
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 01-30-2001, 04:15 PM
12dn94dst 12dn94dst is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 2,431
Thumbs down

i'm also having an issue with the logic around here. does her being a stripper somehow make her less of a target/victim of rape? or maybe it's because she had a record of prostitution? ladies and gentlemen, this is why thousands of rapes go unreported every year, because the victims feel no one will believe them. and the part that's killing me is the conclusions are being drawn from ONE news article. so much for making an informed decision...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-30-2001, 07:41 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hotel Oceanview
Posts: 34,519
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by ZetaAce:
So what? No is NO! Once she says no, no matter what she did before, it's rape. Just because she gave the guy oral stimulation or whatever, that doesn't mean he has the right to have sex with her.

ZetaAce
I think you misinterpreted my post. I didn't say she gave the guy a hummer so she deserves to get raped. No means no and rape is always wrong. I think we all agree on that. What I meant was her doing that leads me to further question her credibility. If performs sexual acts and receives money she IS a prostitute. Period. A reputable dancer (for lack of a better phrase) wouldn't do that. She would strip, take her $$ and leave.

Plus, I would wager that most strippers, dancers, whatever don't get intoxicated before performing. Especially in this sort of situation - a woman would be vulnerable enough, let alone if she had too much to drink.

One last time, rape is wrong and if this woman truly was raped my heart goes out to her. What I am questioning and have problems with is her credibility.


Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-01-2001, 07:11 PM
Jae Jae is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Columbus,OH
Posts: 57
Post

Sorry, but this is just some adulterating slut who wanted to come back to the house for some MORE action (after performing the acts) and then sue the popular fraternity. I totally agree with 33girl. Rape is wrong, but sorry she is a PROSTITUTE and I wouldn't believe a word she says.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-01-2001, 08:40 PM
James James is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: NY
Posts: 8,594
Send a message via ICQ to James Send a message via AIM to James
Post

I believe rape itself here is the catch word.

If she was raped then it is very bad. If she was not raped then she was very bad to cry it. End of story.

The law no longer allows extenuating circumstances. Therefore you could be in the middle of the sex act, change your mind, and if your partner doesn't automatically desists, voila, you have a sexual assault.

I am just curious that if some of her sexual activity was consensual and involved money, whether the words breach of contract may have been more appropriate than sheer rape.

Does it becomore more of a grey area where if you pay for ilegal sex and take more than is offered you are raping are stealing?

Ahh well the issue is to confusing for me

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-01-2001, 09:24 PM
Billy Optimist Billy Optimist is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 712
Angry

There are two very compeling and confilicting sides to this arguement. On hand rape is wrong, and any one who does should be put to death. On the other hand, is that not every accustion of rape is accurate, and it could turn into another Salem Witch Hunt.

------------------
Once in every lifetime, you'll know what life is. Oh I need you, you need me, oh my darling, don't you see? The Young Ones. Darling we're The Young Ones. The Young Ones. Shouldn't be afraid! To live. To love. There's a song to be sung. 'Cause we may not be The Young Ones for very long!!!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-01-2001, 11:52 PM
SilverTurtle SilverTurtle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,085
Post

I have to wonder what these fraternity men (and maybe I should use that term lightly) were thinking hiring strippers to come to their house in the first place.

Even without the alleged rape, it raises questions about the chapter and what they represent.

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-02-2001, 01:07 AM
shadokat shadokat is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 4,075
Post

I agree!!! Watch the movie "The Accused" and then maybe you'll have a better perspective!

Quote:
Originally posted by ZetaAce:
I am HORRIFIED by some of your responses. No woman deserves to be raped no matter what she does for a living!! I don't know if this woman was really raped or not, but show some compassion.

ZetaAce
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-02-2001, 01:12 AM
shadokat shadokat is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 4,075
Post

I worked for a prosecutor's office for a summer and a rape case was involved. They do NOT love to crucify perpetrators without hard evidence, and basically, if that's in a college town, it's a confession. Prosecutors have to cover their a$$es in case the person who claims rape is lying, because those accused of the crime can sue for unlawful arrest. Just wanted to clarify that point. Let's just say I know this from personal experience, although I was not the rapist nor the person raped.

Quote:
Originally posted by Allie_XO:
And one more thing... Prosecutors LOVE rape cases where there is an incriminating video. They would love to crucify any perpetrators they could. If, after viewing the video they decided NOT to prosecute, then the video must not have been to terribly incriminating. The article even called the video "highly ambigious."
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-02-2001, 01:30 AM
12dn94dst 12dn94dst is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 2,431
Post

Thanks!

OK, I've read all 5 articles and i've come to a conclusion: I can't say if she was raped or not. It was mentioned that at one point the camera was turned off. We have no clue what happened during that time. and i still say it's unfair to discount this woman's claim of rape just because she's a prostitute. it's unfortunate that there's no hard evidence to support or refute this claim.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-02-2001, 01:47 AM
ISU_XO
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Good info- thanks for researching it.

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-02-2001, 10:06 PM
James James is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: NY
Posts: 8,594
Send a message via ICQ to James Send a message via AIM to James
Post

Silverturtle,

It would be PC to agree with you, however, in this case I do not.

Stripping is a job like any other and is only degrading (the perception) if the person doing it believes it is.

There is nothing that even remotely suggests, as far as Fraternity Principles, that it is improper to engage the services of a profesional dancer who takes their clothes off.

Nor is the fraternity house a kind of hallowed ground where such acts would be distasteful or forbidden.

Nor is it against policy to have consensual sex either in private or with watchers.

Rape is another issue.

Also, with the amount of money some strippers make, I am not sure who is being exploited . . .
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-04-2001, 05:54 PM
Allie_XO Allie_XO is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mobile Alabama
Posts: 177
Post

James, I agree with you. It seems like if a woman can separtate a man from his money (or visa versa), then the stipper comes out on top - and the customer is a chump!

Allie
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-04-2001, 09:21 PM
SilverTurtle SilverTurtle is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,085
Post

James-

I am speaking here as a member of my fraternity's HQ. I can imagine that any fraternity (or sorority's) HQ would have a few things to say if they heard of strippers coming over to the house.

It does give a very specific impression outsiders. One that you don't want them to have, regardless of your personal opinion on stripping.

It's like that whole "drinking in your letters" topic- you might think it's okay to drink, but that doesn't mean you want all of your brothers (or sisters) out clubbing or bar-hopping in letters because of the image it gives others.

That being said- my point was not whether or not stripping (and hiring strippers) is right/wrong, etc. It was that it was inappropriate.

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-06-2001, 01:08 AM
G8Ralphaxi G8Ralphaxi is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 376
Post

OK, I've watched this topic grow the last couple days and I can't keep quiet any more ...

I was at UF when this incident happened, and I knew several Delta Chis well. People may not like it, but fraternities DO have the right to hire strippers. It's just totally inappropriate to have sex with them in the middle of the chapter house in front of everyone!

In my view, the guys just used terrible judgment here. They should have known the HUGE risk mgmt. issues associated with having the strippers in the house so late, drunk, having sex with the brothers, etc.

Unfortunately for everyone, it didn't end there. The stripper cried rape. Falsely. Keep in mind while you may be hearing about this tape now, here in Gainesville it's old news, a couple years old. Lots of us have seen that tape and everyone that has seen the whole thing agrees - she was NOT RAPED. If there was any real doubt, with so many people at UF watching it, don't you think SOMEONE would have said something?

To be honest, I've only seen a little of it because I walked out of the room when I realized what it was. As for the 30 seconds I did see, let's just say she's enjoying herself. And I know that "no means no", etc. but let's be practical, you can't happily start having sex, then in the middle decide he's raping you. Consenting to fooling around is one thing, consenting to sex is another. Once two people take that step, and they are in the "physical act", that's it.

The only people arguing that Lisa Gier King was raped after the tape was released were Ms. King and "Campus NOW" - a misleading name because they are NOT an authorized student group. Contrary to what NOW and our student newspaper (which is well-known for horrible inaccurate journalism) said, UPD did a fair investigation. After seeing the tape, they judged what took place as NOT RAPE. As for the supposed "missing parts" of the tape in the middle, let's use common sense: if you were raped, would you later that night have consensual sex with the same guy? I seriously doubt it!

Here's the ironic part - the tape they had to use to defend themselves got them kicked off campus. King accused Delta Chi of rape. To defend themselves, they gave UPD the tape. The tape showed the sex as consensual, but it ALSO showed a lot of other problems - drug use, underage drinking, hazing of the pledges, etc. That's what got them kicked off campus for the last couple years. Drugs. Alcohol. Hazing. Not rape.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.