Rape At a Fraternity House Movie - Page 2

12dn94dst · #16 01-30-2001, 04:15 PM

i'm also having an issue with the logic around here. does her being a stripper somehow make her less of a target/victim of rape? or maybe it's because she had a record of prostitution? ladies and gentlemen, this is why thousands of rapes go unreported every year, because the victims feel no one will believe them. and the part that's killing me is the conclusions are being drawn from ONE news article. so much for making an informed decision...

33girl · #17 01-30-2001, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZetaAce:
So what? No is NO! Once she says no, no matter what she did before, it's rape. Just because she gave the guy oral stimulation or whatever, that doesn't mean he has the right to have sex with her.

ZetaAce

I think you misinterpreted my post. I didn't say she gave the guy a hummer so she deserves to get raped. No means no and rape is always wrong. I think we all agree on that. What I meant was her doing that leads me to further question her credibility. If performs sexual acts and receives money she IS a prostitute. Period. A reputable dancer (for lack of a better phrase) wouldn't do that. She would strip, take her $$ and leave.

Plus, I would wager that most strippers, dancers, whatever don't get intoxicated before performing. Especially in this sort of situation - a woman would be vulnerable enough, let alone if she had too much to drink.

One last time, rape is wrong and if this woman truly was raped my heart goes out to her. What I am questioning and have problems with is her credibility.

Jae · #18 02-01-2001, 07:11 PM

Sorry, but this is just some adulterating slut who wanted to come back to the house for some MORE action (after performing the acts) and then sue the popular fraternity. I totally agree with 33girl. Rape is wrong, but sorry she is a PROSTITUTE and I wouldn't believe a word she says.

James · #19 02-01-2001, 08:40 PM

I believe rape itself here is the catch word.

If she was raped then it is very bad. If she was not raped then she was very bad to cry it. End of story.

The law no longer allows extenuating circumstances. Therefore you could be in the middle of the sex act, change your mind, and if your partner doesn't automatically desists, voila, you have a sexual assault.

I am just curious that if some of her sexual activity was consensual and involved money, whether the words breach of contract may have been more appropriate than sheer rape.

Does it becomore more of a grey area where if you pay for ilegal sex and take more than is offered you are raping are stealing?

Ahh well the issue is to confusing for me

Billy Optimist · #20 02-01-2001, 09:24 PM

There are two very compeling and confilicting sides to this arguement. On hand rape is wrong, and any one who does should be put to death. On the other hand, is that not every accustion of rape is accurate, and it could turn into another Salem Witch Hunt.

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SilverTurtle · #21 02-01-2001, 11:52 PM

I have to wonder what these fraternity men (and maybe I should use that term lightly) were thinking hiring strippers to come to their house in the first place.

Even without the alleged rape, it raises questions about the chapter and what they represent.

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

shadokat · #22 02-02-2001, 01:07 AM

I agree!!! Watch the movie "The Accused" and then maybe you'll have a better perspective!

Quote:

Originally posted by ZetaAce:
I am HORRIFIED by some of your responses. No woman deserves to be raped no matter what she does for a living!! I don't know if this woman was really raped or not, but show some compassion.

ZetaAce

shadokat · #23 02-02-2001, 01:12 AM

I worked for a prosecutor's office for a summer and a rape case was involved. They do NOT love to crucify perpetrators without hard evidence, and basically, if that's in a college town, it's a confession. Prosecutors have to cover their a$$es in case the person who claims rape is lying, because those accused of the crime can sue for unlawful arrest. Just wanted to clarify that point. Let's just say I know this from personal experience, although I was not the rapist nor the person raped.

Quote:

Originally posted by Allie_XO:
And one more thing... Prosecutors LOVE rape cases where there is an incriminating video. They would love to crucify any perpetrators they could. If, after viewing the video they decided NOT to prosecute, then the video must not have been to terribly incriminating. The article even called the video "highly ambigious."

12dn94dst · #24 02-02-2001, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by localsororities:
Here are some articles about the whole mess from the campus paper.
http://www.alligator.org/edit/issues...tachi0504.html
http://www.alligator.org/edit/issues...000302/b02.htm
http://www.alligator.org/edit/issues.../b03video2.htm
http://www.alligator.org/edit/issues...tachi0507.html

Thanks!

OK, I've read all 5 articles and i've come to a conclusion: I can't say if she was raped or not. It was mentioned that at one point the camera was turned off. We have no clue what happened during that time. and i still say it's unfair to discount this woman's claim of rape just because she's a prostitute. it's unfortunate that there's no hard evidence to support or refute this claim.

#25 02-02-2001, 01:47 AM

Good info- thanks for researching it.

James · #26 02-02-2001, 10:06 PM

Silverturtle,

It would be PC to agree with you, however, in this case I do not.

Stripping is a job like any other and is only degrading (the perception) if the person doing it believes it is.

There is nothing that even remotely suggests, as far as Fraternity Principles, that it is improper to engage the services of a profesional dancer who takes their clothes off.

Nor is the fraternity house a kind of hallowed ground where such acts would be distasteful or forbidden.

Nor is it against policy to have consensual sex either in private or with watchers.

Rape is another issue.

Also, with the amount of money some strippers make, I am not sure who is being exploited . . .

Allie_XO · #27 02-04-2001, 05:54 PM

James, I agree with you. It seems like if a woman can separtate a man from his money (or visa versa), then the stipper comes out on top - and the customer is a chump!

Allie

SilverTurtle · #28 02-04-2001, 09:21 PM

James-

I am speaking here as a member of my fraternity's HQ. I can imagine that any fraternity (or sorority's) HQ would have a few things to say if they heard of strippers coming over to the house.

It does give a very specific impression outsiders. One that you don't want them to have, regardless of your personal opinion on stripping.

It's like that whole "drinking in your letters" topic- you might think it's okay to drink, but that doesn't mean you want all of your brothers (or sisters) out clubbing or bar-hopping in letters because of the image it gives others.

That being said- my point was not whether or not stripping (and hiring strippers) is right/wrong, etc. It was that it was inappropriate.

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

G8Ralphaxi · #29 02-06-2001, 01:08 AM

OK, I've watched this topic grow the last couple days and I can't keep quiet any more ...

I was at UF when this incident happened, and I knew several Delta Chis well. People may not like it, but fraternities DO have the right to hire strippers. It's just totally inappropriate to have sex with them in the middle of the chapter house in front of everyone!

In my view, the guys just used terrible judgment here. They should have known the HUGE risk mgmt. issues associated with having the strippers in the house so late, drunk, having sex with the brothers, etc.

Unfortunately for everyone, it didn't end there. The stripper cried rape. Falsely. Keep in mind while you may be hearing about this tape now, here in Gainesville it's old news, a couple years old. Lots of us have seen that tape and everyone that has seen the whole thing agrees - she was NOT RAPED. If there was any real doubt, with so many people at UF watching it, don't you think SOMEONE would have said something?

To be honest, I've only seen a little of it because I walked out of the room when I realized what it was. As for the 30 seconds I did see, let's just say she's enjoying herself. And I know that "no means no", etc. but let's be practical, you can't happily start having sex, then in the middle decide he's raping you. Consenting to fooling around is one thing, consenting to sex is another. Once two people take that step, and they are in the "physical act", that's it.

The only people arguing that Lisa Gier King was raped after the tape was released were Ms. King and "Campus NOW" - a misleading name because they are NOT an authorized student group. Contrary to what NOW and our student newspaper (which is well-known for horrible inaccurate journalism) said, UPD did a fair investigation. After seeing the tape, they judged what took place as NOT RAPE. As for the supposed "missing parts" of the tape in the middle, let's use common sense: if you were raped, would you later that night have consensual sex with the same guy? I seriously doubt it!

Here's the ironic part - the tape they had to use to defend themselves got them kicked off campus. King accused Delta Chi of rape. To defend themselves, they gave UPD the tape. The tape showed the sex as consensual, but it ALSO showed a lot of other problems - drug use, underage drinking, hazing of the pledges, etc. That's what got them kicked off campus for the last couple years. Drugs. Alcohol. Hazing. Not rape.