Join APO after being in NIC fraternity? Reasons for and against?

[DramaQueen42401]

We have requirements. Most pledges complete them just fine. There are some who fall short and then their big just cries on the stand for them and get it waived

But if the cause of low retention wasn't can the person do the work, then what was it? That's where I was coming from when I said find out more about them before they get in. Do they plan to do this for a while or are they just willing to be here and do this for this semester, since it isn't that complicated, or are they really here for the long haul?

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I kind of don't understand.... for those chapters that have this issue, don't you have pledging requirements?

For most chapters, the only pledging requirements involves amassing a certain number of service project, and/or to execute a service project of their own. The requirements themselves are too easy for someone to "pimp the system" and get the letters. It really doesn't illustrate a person's willingness to serve in the org; it only gives a superficial sense of whether or not a person is worthy of being a brother.

You certainly DON'T have to accept everyone who pledges, especially if they don't complete the requirements.

I think most brothers don't want to have to explain to the sectional/regional director why a pledge didn't get initiated. And a lot of these pledges will run crying to the chapter advisor/SC/RD in a minute if they don't get in rather than suck it up and re-pledge.

I don't believe in selecting who pledges, but I do believe in selecting who gets initiated.

(at bolded) I DO!! It keeps a lot of potential bulljive and needless subsequent drama at the door where it belongs.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

(at bolded) I DO!! It keeps a lot of potential bulljive and needless subsequent drama at the door where it belongs.

Then you need to be active.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by DramaQueen42401

We have requirements. Most pledges complete them just fine. There are some who fall short and then their big just cries on the stand for them and get it waived

Let 'em cry till the cows come home. Save the sob story for someone else. The pledge can always re-pledge at a later time if they are deemed worthy of another bid.

But if the cause of low retention wasn't can the person do the work, then what was it? That's where I was coming from when I said find out more about them before they get in. Do they plan to do this for a while or are they just willing to be here and do this for this semester, since it isn't that complicated, or are they really here for the long haul?

If we are truly a fraternity, then we need to act like one. And one element of a fraternity is that not everyone is worthy of joining the ranks or will be initiated.

Simply put: Open membership means that any student from 18-80 can attend our recruitment functions and apply for membership without any regard for their personal status of characteristics. That's it!! They are not entitled to a bid, they are not entitled to be initiated. We do not owe them letters or membership simply because they applied, period!!

One thing I admire about the all-male chapters is that they tend to have a really good handle on how to filter out potential dead-weight and potentially problem members, (relative to co-ed chapters).

I think we try so hard to prove to the campus that we are not a social fraternity, we wind up not functioning as a fraternity at all, but more like a club. Clubs let anybody in, fraternities do not.

Let the prospective prove to US that they are worthy of joining, we do not prove to the prospective that we are worthy that they considered us for membership, and all too often we get that backward.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Then you need to be active.

In what way? Be on sectional staff? Join an alumni association? Be a chapter advisor? Be more specific.

Don't forget, once you become alumni, they send you out to pasture.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

In what way? Be on sectional staff? Join an alumni association? Be a chapter advisor? Be more specific.

Don't forget, once you become alumni, they send you out to pasture.

Any or all of those things.

I've been active in some capacity since I've graduated.

[Quala67]

Brothers, re-read our history. Alpha Phi Omega was FOUNDED by folks who were already involved in a NIC Fraternity. So, if someone wants to come to APO after being NIC, NPC, or NPHC, as long as they meet the requirements of that individual chapter to become a Brother - and they want to work and be of Service, so be it! I've been involved with a variety of chapters, and have had APO Brothers who've been NIC/NPC/NPHC as well as Alpha Phi Omega, and there has not been an issue. Several times, I've seen the APO Chapter President also be involved in another GLO, and it has not hurt the APO chapter; in fact, it gave the chapter more opportunities to cooperate and collaborate on service projects!

As long as a student can balance all their involvements *AND* their classwork, more power to him or her. As one of our former Presidents said, we should have "more Brothers on more campuses doing more service."

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Quala67

Brothers, re-read our history. Alpha Phi Omega was FOUNDED by folks who were already involved in a NIC Fraternity.

Eight of the fourteen including Frank Reed Horton were Sigma Alpha Epsilon, and Five were Krescents, a local Fraternity that joined Kappa Delta Rho within a couple of years after APO was founded. (And one Independent).

Many of the early (first 10 years) Alpha Phi Omega chapters when their charterings were reported in the fraternity magazine (Torch and Trefoil) reported which NIC fraternities were represented among their membership.

Originally Posted by Quala67

As long as a student can balance all their involvements *AND* their classwork, more power to him or her. As one of our former Presidents said, we should have "more Brothers on more campuses doing more service."

And I *certainly* would not recommend pledging both Alpha Phi Omega and a Social GLO in the same semester. Some things are just too ugly for words.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Quala67

Brothers, re-read our history. Alpha Phi Omega was FOUNDED by folks who were already involved in a NIC Fraternity. So, if someone wants to come to APO after being NIC, NPC, or NPHC, as long as they meet the requirements of that individual chapter to become a Brother - and they want to work and be of Service, so be it!

My point exactly: At many campuses the requirements are so simple and loosely enforced, the prospective's desire to work and be of service can oftentimes be illusionary. I am glad I came into APO at an all-male school, because quite honestly, if it was anywhere else, I would've pimped the system, got my letters, and left. Real talk. There would've been no challenge to get the letters, and no incentive to stay active once I got them. And all too often, that is an avenue that many college students often exploit because the chapters allow them to.

As far as fellowship and brotherhood bonding (and membership retention for that matter), what separates Alpha Phi Omega from Circle K?

[Attractive#7]

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1539181]I am glad I came into APO at an all-male school, because quite honestly, if it was anywhere else, I would've pimped the system, got my letters, and left. Real talk. There would've been no challenge to get the letters, and no incentive to stay active once I got them. And all too often, that is an avenue that many college students often exploit because the chapters allow them to.

IF you pledged at a school with an all male chapter, you can't really speak on what happens in a co-ed chapter can you? You don't really know what our requirements are do you?

People have to remember that Alpha Phi Omega stands alone and we do what we do. I do not advocate Brothers pledging and then leaving, but I see too many people trying to treat APO like a social GLO and we ARE NOT. Stop trying to make APO what it is not. If you have a problem with how retention effors in chapters are going, then be a positive role model and make suggestions on how we can retain the Brothers once they become members.

To answer your initial post, I know several brothers who pledged NPHC first and APO second. The reasons varied...one person thought it was cool to be in a sorority and a fraternity, one person did it because a lot of their friends were members or APO/dated someone in APO. One pro would be you know that they are not trying to use APO as a stairstep into another org, they are familar with pledging, and if they are dedicated to their first org hopefully, they will be dedicated to our org. Cons include the pledge trying to compare APO's process to their old process and make changes that DON'T work in APO, them not taking APO as serious, not being able to effectively dedicate time to both.

[GMUAPhiOAdvisor]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I don't believe in selecting who pledges, but I do believe in selecting who gets initiated.

We had this very issue this semester. A pledge failed to fulfill her requirements and she was not voted in by the brotherhood. It happens, and although it is sad when it does, it would have been worse for the chapter if they had allowed her in. I think, in her case, she was spread way too thin (she was in 3 or 4 other organizations, plus having a job and being in some sort of pagent, not to mention her classload as a senior) and adding A Phi O to the mix would have meant the chapter came out on the short end of the bargain.

I'm in agreement.....let all who want to, pledge. Be selective with choosing who is made a brother. If pledges can't show committment to the chapter as pledges, what makes us think they will as brothers?

Again, my .02.....

[bguy88]

Hey all - I'm "pieceofpaper" (the OP) I couldn't remember the password or the email address that I used for it nearly a year ago.

I am now pledging my APO chapter.

Most of my social fraternity brothers are fine with it and most are being supportive. Actually my social fraternity has historic ties to this APO chapter. It was re-chartered by several of our brothers and we have often had members in it and several of our sweethearts were in APO.

[Senusret I]

^^^ Congrats on your choice and I hope you see it through.

Since the last time I posted on this matter, I became Sponsor for a Petitioning Group for APO. The original seven members of the group are all members of social fraternities and sororities, so you are in good company.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by bguy88

Hey all - I'm "pieceofpaper" (the OP) I couldn't remember the password or the email address that I used for it nearly a year ago.

I am now pledging my APO chapter.

Most of my social fraternity brothers are fine with it and most are being supportive. Actually my social fraternity has historic ties to this APO chapter. It was re-chartered by several of our brothers and we have often had members in it and several of our sweethearts were in APO.

Congrats!

During the time that I was an undergradute brother, my chapter had one brother who was already in a social sorority when they joined APO, one brother who was already in a social fraternity when they joined APO and one who joined a social fraternity after joining APO.

In fact the one who joined a social sorority and then APO was simultaneously APO president and KKG pledge mistress during one stretch. Not something I'd have been able to pull off (other than the fact I am a guy ).

[bro_strawter]

Actually, at Tennessee State, we've had quite a few brothers who pledged a social fraternity/sorority first, then APO. There was no issues.