Harder for older students to join?

[ealymc]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Chapters have limited pledge class sizes

On my campus, as far as fraternities are concerned, this is not the case...

[MaryAmanda]

It also depends on the type of group it is. I joined my local as a fourth year. In OPA, we've had plenty of pledge classes with no freshmen at all (a trend we made sure to discontinue--at one point, we were about to lose about half of our membership to graduation, so we recruited freshmen girls like crazy that semester!).

Also, my boyfriend joined Phi Kappa Sigma as a fifth year. Most GT students (I think the number is something like 70%) take more than four years to graduate, and their chapter was small at the time. From my experience, though, I've never seen a fraternity put a cap on how many bids to hand out or pledges to take in. Especially if a chapter is struggling with numbers; they can afford to mostly focus on quantity during rush, then determine quality later.

[trideltrockstar]

For a few orgs at my school, it is much harder to get in as a junior (we have sophomore rush). Some houses automatically cut all juniors and others may take 1 (certainly no more than 2) for the pledge class. Usually only about 5-10 juniors even rush.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by ealymc

Quotas are something else foreign to fraternity life at my school. Every semester I was at UCA, there was at least one sorority didn't take either a fall or spring pledge class because of quota, but the fraternities are just out there gettin' the guys... as many as you can every semester, it seems. I guess that's why it didn't make sense to me. What is the purpose of quota anyway? To keep the playing field as even as possible, I suppose?

I wasn't able to find an answer. Can someone please enlighten me with what the purpose of a quota might be?

As a capitalist, I always saw it as those that were more desirable, for whatever reason based on campus, activities, people, national, costs, house, whatever, would be the ones people want to join. They take as many as they want - they may not want all those who are interested.

Those that are less desirable, for whatever reason, or that are more desirable to the individualist, might be smaller, but they will learn what they have to do to be economically feasible, or they go away.

I don't understand what benefit any type of quota system brings to a campus. I hope someone will enlighten me.

[UGAalum94]

It allows more groups to flourish on that campus. It's a cooperative agreement among the members of NPC for the benefit of all groups.

Basically, it seems that you think everything should operate based on free market principles, but the members of the NPC groups have decided that it's better to have multiple healthy groups on campus than it is to have a few very large groups and other struggling groups.

Although you have in other threads expressed your belief that certain groups are in fact better than other groups and I guess I can infer from that that you think that other groups should go under through direct competition with stronger groups, the NPC thinks it best protects the interests of member groups when it balances the competition among groups.

And remember, the NPC doesn't have a monopoly. Campuses are welcome to have locals. If an NPC decided that the Green book rules weren't the way they wanted to go, they could leave, I suppose. There may even be non-NPC affiliated groups for all I know.

(Sometimes I wonder if the IFC system is better myself, but while I obviously have a preference for my own group, I don't have as strong a sense as you apparently do that a girls belonging to one group over another makes that much a difference in her Greek experience. Even if she can't be XYZ, there's still a benefit in being QRS in my mind.)

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I don't understand what benefit any type of quota system brings to a campus. I hope someone will enlighten me.

Quota keeps the sororities more equal. If all sororities could take everyone they wanted to who was interested, it would quickly cause a very uneven balance. The "less desirable" groups start to die off. Those who have seen it happen, know that when the weakest link finally breaks, it leaves a new weakest link, and the cycle starts over. Eventually, even the "desirable" groups start to decline, as there are less total Greeks to do PR. It's better to keep a quota system, and keep things semi-equal. Otherwise you would end up with a dynamic Greek system, which is not to the benefit of the campus. Better to keep however many sororities it takes to fill the campus, and not have groups constantly coming and going.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Quota keeps the sororities more equal. If all sororities could take everyone they wanted to who was interested, it would quickly cause a very uneven balance. The "less desirable" groups start to die off. Those who have seen it happen, know that when the weakest link finally breaks, it leaves a new weakest link, and the cycle starts over. Eventually, even the "desirable" groups start to decline, as there are less total Greeks to do PR. It's better to keep a quota system, and keep things semi-equal. Otherwise you would end up with a dynamic Greek system, which is not to the benefit of the campus. Better to keep however many sororities it takes to fill the campus, and not have groups constantly coming and going.

I guess I just don't understand the concept of wanting to keep things equal artificially. Apparently, I'm the only greek on the planet who doesn't get it, though.

Not everyone would be interested in the larger houses, all else being equal, and not everyone interested in the larger houses would necessarily be pledged, right?

Oh, well...enough people on these forums have told me to shut up and color. I guess I'll do so.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

It allows more groups to flourish on that campus. It's a cooperative agreement among the members of NPC for the benefit of all groups.

Basically, it seems that you think everything should operate based on free market principles, but the members of the NPC groups have decided that it's better to have multiple healthy groups on campus than it is to have a few very large groups and other struggling groups.

Although you have in other threads expressed your belief that certain groups are in fact better than other groups and I guess I can infer from that that you think that other groups should go under through direct competition with stronger groups, the NPC thinks it best protects the interests of member groups when it balances the competition among groups.

And remember, the NPC doesn't have a monopoly. Campuses are welcome to have locals. If an NPC decided that the Green book rules weren't the way they wanted to go, they could leave, I suppose. There may even be non-NPC affiliated groups for all I know.

(Sometimes I wonder if the IFC system is better myself, but while I obviously have a preference for my own group, I don't have as strong a sense as you apparently do that a girls belonging to one group over another makes that much a difference in her Greek experience. Even if she can't be XYZ, there's still a benefit in being QRS in my mind.)

Before I shut up and color, as many seem to want me to do, let me say that I don't believe one group is better than another. I believe one group one any one campus may be the best for each individual, and that an individual should be given the time to get to know that, and to choose.

I'm not willing to let others make those choices for me without my voice being heard, but apparently that's not appropriate in these forums. Here it seems to be go along with the group. Sorry, that's not for me.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Before I shut up and color, as many seem to want me to do, let me say that I don't believe one group is better than another. I believe one group one any one campus may be the best for each individual, and that an individual should be given the time to get to know that, and to choose.

I'm not willing to let others make those choices for me without my voice being heard, but apparently that's not appropriate in these forums. Here it seems to be go along with the group. Sorry, that's not for me.

Often on smaller campuses, they do have that. It's called continuous open bidding. We had instances where girls came to open bid parties for a year before they joined because they just weren't ready.

But if you have hundreds of girls going through rush at the same time, you don't have that luxury. It's my belief that at campuses where all the chapters are very large, they probably are more alike than different.

Oh, and please tell me what "shut up and color" means, because I don't have a clue.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Oh, and please tell me what "shut up and color" means, because I don't have a clue.

I've heard this expression in only one area of the country (although I'm sure it's used elsewhere), and it basically meant, "Run along now... your opinion doesn't matter here." Of course, you have to imagine it being said with the proper amount of condescension for full effect.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Before I shut up and color, as many seem to want me to do, let me say that I don't believe one group is better than another. I believe one group one any one campus may be the best for each individual, and that an individual should be given the time to get to know that, and to choose.

I'm not willing to let others make those choices for me without my voice being heard, but apparently that's not appropriate in these forums. Here it seems to be go along with the group. Sorry, that's not for me.

I'm certainly not trying to stifle your opinion. I was trying to give what I thought was the logic behind the ideas of quota and campus total.

Fraternities, for the most part, don't seem to use a similar system, and as I said, something I wonder if their way is better.

But I think it's true that the NPC has decided that the interests of all groups are best protected by regulating the number of new members that groups can take in and I think that in terms of what system will produce a great number of healthy groups, and therefore the best Greek experience for the most women, I think they might be right.

I was an undergraduate member at a big school with more than 1000 girls rushing each year and 18 groups, so it's harder for me to accept the idea that there's one best group for each girl, other than the group she ends up with when rush is over. At a smaller campus with deferred rush, I'm sure things are different and the groups may have distinctly different personalities and character.

Even with the "false" constraints of quota and total, I think the regulated system probably "works" better overall than groups having to set their own limits bases on when the experience of being a member seems to decline because the group is way too big.

But it's perfectly fine that you disagree.

I'm not sure what you mean by having your choices made for you, though. Even in the quota and total system, girls decide whether they want to join the group that wants them and they get to rank groups. It's just that their choices get narrowed down when groups decide that they don't want to ask them back.

[IVY BEAUTY]

Not really, just depends on the chapter I guess.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by IVY BEAUTY

Not really, just depends on the chapter I guess.

We're mainly discussing NPC/IFC. It doesn't really apply to NPHC, different systems.

[IVY BEAUTY]

oh sorry, my lack of reading all of the post. thanks

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

We're mainly discussing NPC/IFC. It doesn't really apply to NPHC, different systems.