Letters on Bid Day???

[SthrnZeta]

I had a roommate that was an APO my senior year and I remember what a big deal initiation was for her and wearing letters (which she did a lot afterwards) and it made me remember mine

[SthrnZeta]

33girl, I totally agree with you - you're really looking at the flipside of things and I hadn't even thought of how the girls felt in the orgs that gave out letters during their pledge period... It was obvious to us as NMs because only one chapter that I can remember did it on my campus at the time (I think it was AXiD). Good post!

[adpiucf]

If a sorority has a national policy that allows members to wear letters, it is up to the individual to choose if she wants to wear them or not as they please.

I think there are many benefits to a new member wearing Greek letters or at least wearing the letters spelled out in Roman characters. Why? Public Relations. The more the campus sees your letters out in full force, the more your sorority becomes a household name. If members are charged with adhering to high standards of conduct, the name is impressed as being a large group of classy ladies.

I'm pro-letters, however you choose to wear them. I don't really think it is a good idea for pledges to take a vote to forbear, as a majority, from an activity (wearing letters) that they are permitted to partake in as a matter of sorority policy. Are there any sanctions for a new member who wears letters or a laveliere, etc., who doesn't adhere to this rule? If there is no penalty, then it probably isn't a big deal, especially if the campus culture is such... but it is entirely possible for new members to haze fellow new members, so it could be seen as hazing. I say "could be seen," not that it is.

However, you'd be hard pressed to get your nationals to concur if a traveling consultant buzzed through town and spent time with your chapter during the NM period if this was something that was brought to her attention. And having traveled to chapters, I probably would say most would not notice what the NMs not wearing letters b/c it isn't like making them wear ribbons 24/7 or forbidding them from speaking before being spoken to, etc-- things that are obviously hazing. I think taking a new member vote not to wear letters might be viewed as a fuzzy area, but I am pretty sure it would be frowned upon though not necessarily dealt with. The sorority has much bigger fish to fry.

Southern, I'm not condemning your chapter with these thoughts. Just airing general experiences and thoughts.

[SthrnZeta]

I think our NM Coordinator felt that by letting us vote as a pledge class what we wanted to do, it wasn't hazing. I see your point though, but I have to agree with 33, if I wore letters and all of the other girls I went through recruitment with in other chapters didn't, I'd feel weird. It's about campus culture and your particular chapter in general. Obviously, if one girl wanted to wear letters she had bought in excitement over getting her bid, then there's no one to tell her she can't in ZTA (I think the only person that would have, had that happened, would have been another NM who didn't know better). It's not as big a deal as you're all saying that I'm saying it is - just a personal belief that I have and shared with my chapter. I agree with your point about marketing though, which is why we would have days that we would all wear certain shirts (something from recruitment or bid day, etc.) that our NMs had as well so we were all unified. We would have letters days too, but they were usually during recruitment when any NMs we had would have already been initiated. Trust me, we took public relations very seriously during recruitment since we were a smaller chapter.

[FSUZeta]

i think that the george mason chapter covered it well when the new member coordinator allowed the new member class to vote on whether to wear letters or not. by doing so they ensured that the chapter could not be accused of hazing.

someone asked what letters i was referring to having worn as a pledge. back in my day-mid to late 70's-sororities at fsu did not have t-shirts for every occasion and event-in fact i don't remember any t-shirts for any events until my senior year when i was a rush counselor and we r.c.'s were given "go greek" t-shirts to wear. my chapter wore turquoise jerseys(similar to a football jersey in design) with silver stitched Z T A letters on the front-stitched like one stitches an applique. we could have our name stitched in the same silver fabric on the back like where football players last names appear on their jerseys. i don't have a photo, because my jersey is long gone.

the zeta colony would not have received shirts with the crest on them prior to their initiation. that is strictly forbidden, and most likely the shirts would have been supplied by our international office and they would not have made that mistake.

[DUKyleXY]

Pi Phis,
I think I read somewhere that the "tradition" of new members not wearing Beta was because the pledge pin only had the Pi and Phi on it. This supposedly lead to the idea that Beta was reserved for initiated sisters.

I could be wrong, but I think thats what was on the chapter website for my schools Pi Phi Chapter. Then again, they also have a lot of chapter traditions and even a song that is only sung in the Iowa Chapters...its really funny to watch!

[PiPhiERDoc]

[QUOTE=DUKyleXY;1521386]Pi Phis,
I think I read somewhere that the "tradition" of new members not wearing Beta was because the pledge pin only had the Pi and Phi on it. This supposedly lead to the idea that Beta was reserved for initiated sisters.

Actually, the pledge pin is an arrowhead with just the BETA on it - not the Pi or the Phi. From the Pi Beta Phi Webpage:
"The pledge pin is an arrowhead of Roman gold mounted with the Greek letter B (Beta) in burnished gold."

[ISUKappa]

New members of Kappa Kappa Gamma are allowed to wear everything except the fraternity badge from the time they accept their bid. Individual new member classes may choose not to wear letters until after initiation, but there is no fraternity-wide bylaw against it.

In fact, in reading through our bylaws, it seems the only thing restricted to initiated members is the badge.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

Individual new member classes may choose not to wear letters until after initiation, but there is no fraternity-wide bylaw against it.

I remember being at a rush party (not ASA) and the girl rushing me told me that NM WERE allowed to wear letters, but ALL pledge classes have ALWAYS voted not to. In other words, Nationals says we have to let you, but we're not going to, anyway.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I remember being at a rush party (not ASA) and the girl rushing me told me that NM WERE allowed to wear letters, but ALL pledge classes have ALWAYS voted not to. In other words, Nationals says we have to let you, but we're not going to, anyway.

Yeah, that's pretty much how my chapter did it too.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

Yeah, that's pretty much how my chapter did it too.

Weren't you just saying how you WANTED to not wear letters? Having an active say that basically guarantees that the NM class will vote to not wear letters. Everyone wants to be liked, and no one wants to be 'that' new member that tries to go against tradition.

You've made a few other contradictory statements in this thread, too.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I remember being at a rush party (not ASA) and the girl rushing me told me that NM WERE allowed to wear letters, but ALL pledge classes have ALWAYS voted not to. In other words, Nationals says we have to let you, but we're not going to, anyway.

If that's what your chapter/nm class chose to do, that's your decision. I don't care either way. I was just answering for my own organization. My last statement was meant to show the ONLY restriction on letters, crest, whathaveyou in regards to non-members involves our badge. That's not to say some chapters don't do the whole "no letters before initiation" deal, but if it's a nm class choice, I don't really care.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

If that's what your chapter/nm class chose to do, that's your decision. I don't care either way. I was just answering for my own organization. My last statement was meant to show the ONLY restriction on letters, crest, whathaveyou in regards to non-members involves our badge. That's not to say some chapters don't do the whole "no letters before initiation" deal, but if it's a nm class choice, I don't really care.

It wasn't your org that my post was about. You just happened to be talking about that subject.

And, if the pledge class votes on it, it's fine...but the way the girl put it to me, it seemed like the vote was just a formality and letters WOULD NOT be worn during pledging regardless of what the NM class actually wanted.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I remember being at a rush party (not ASA) and the girl rushing me told me that NM WERE allowed to wear letters, but ALL pledge classes have ALWAYS voted not to. In other words, Nationals says we have to let you, but we're not going to, anyway.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

It wasn't your org that my post was about. You just happened to be talking about that subject.

And, if the pledge class votes on it, it's fine...but the way the girl put it to me, it seemed like the vote was just a formality and letters WOULD NOT be worn during pledging regardless of what the NM class actually wanted.

And that's essentially my problem with the argument that the pledge class decided so it's ok. Faced with "Tradition" and the suggestion that you go along with it, what pledge class won't? I think what bugs me the most about this thread is the thumbs down! It's not bad to get letters on bid day.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DUKyleXY

Pi Phis,
I think I read somewhere that the "tradition" of new members not wearing Beta was because the pledge pin only had the Pi and Phi on it. This supposedly lead to the idea that Beta was reserved for initiated sisters.

Originally Posted by PiPhiERDoc

Actually, the pledge pin is an arrowhead with just the BETA on it - not the Pi or the Phi. From the Pi Beta Phi Webpage:
"The pledge pin is an arrowhead of Roman gold mounted with the Greek letter B (Beta) in burnished gold."

If I had to guess (and that's all it would be), I would guess that the idea that NMs can't wear the Beta comes from the nickname "Pi Phi." It would be sort of like the rule in many GLOs (including mine) that pledges/NMs/probationary members cannot wear the Greek letters but can wear a shirt with the name spelled out in Latin letters. (E.g., FMA = not okay, but "Phi Mu Alpha" = okay.)

I can see how somewhere along the line, someone said "it's okay to use the nickname Pi Phi prior to initiation, but the actual formal name -- Pi Beta Phi -- like the coat-of-arms, has to wait until after initiation." Then someone else infers that because the NMs never wear the Beta, it must be a Pi Phi rule or tradition that NMs can't or shouldn't wear the Beta.

Like I said, just a guess.