The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

Well I'm sure by now everyone has read or watched the Imus saga and now, the final outcome which is him being fired from CBS as well. But I wanted to create this thread because I'd like to play DV for a minute and just post a few thoughts I've had, so induldge me.

There are tons of very well known rappers/entertainers that use the exact same language as Imus when referring to women, but yet there is no outrage. In fact, they are rewarded with high record sales and endorsement deals. I would say that these types of people are even more damaging to our self esteem than Imus because of their large influence on our your people (shoot, old ones too). Men immulate the language thinking that is how you are supose to refer to women, while young women become immune to it and think its ok.

Should we now shift our focus and outrage from IMUS to the rap industry? If not, why do you consider one situation to be different from the other?

Let's discuss!

The difference is that in rap/hiphop/etc. the artists are talking about an anonymous 'YOU' whereas in this specific instance, the remarks were directed toward a specific group of named individuals. It is a legitimate moral distinction and supports the rationale taken. While I am not defending misogynist music (I don't listen to, buy or support in any way), there is a difference. I will elaborate more later but I needed to get this said as soon as possible in this thread....

[PhrozenGenius]

Ok, time for another voice *sigh* where do I begin?

There have been numerous efforts to stymie the use of derogatory language within rap music. (Simply one element of hip-hop culture) From the late C. Dolores Tucker, to Tipper Gore, to Luther Campbell being locked up for lewdness, to more recent events such as Spelman College students protesting a Nelly appearance on their campus, Essence's "Take Back The Music" Campaign, and more subtle attacks from within the hip-hop community on it's own level of "self hatred" (see: Nas' "Hip Hop is Dead, Mos Def's "Tru3 Magic", and for my own personal throw-in Dead Prez's "Turn Off The Radio")

As many in the conservative sector speak of this perceived hypocrisy about Imus' comments vs. Black Music (read: Hip-Hop) I find it amazing that no one speaks of the fact that the people who buy the majority of rap music and fuel the industry are surburban white kids. I find it even more amazing that since these artists and boutique record label CEO's don't own the methods of production and distribution that anyone would think that the black community has any sort of control over what music is released and what propaganda is displayed.

The black vox populi time and again has stated that we want more intelligent music as opposed to b****es, blunts, and 40's however the owners of the record labels hold the keys and the checkbooks. Thus, they take the "artists" who offer the most salacious elements of what some would consider "black life" and make it a multimillion dollar investment. To bring it back to the middle, to suggest that Imus' comments plus black reaction equals hypocrisy is to buy into the MTV/BET/ClearChannel/RadioOne/Cox Communications lie that black life in and of itself is monolithic. Which is obviously wrong and if taken to the extreme could be considered racist.

THE JESSE JACKSON and AL SHARPTON Connection

Truth be told, Jesse makes Al look bad. That is not the point.

Black America has not chosen Jackson and Sharpton as the President and V.P. of Black America. Truth be told, I (and I'm sure MANY others will agree with me) would rather have Michael Eric Dyson, Cornel West, Tavis Smiley, Dick Gregory, Barack Obama, or even Judge Joe Brown speak on behalf of Black America. As stated before, the old conservative guard, neocons, moderate liberals, and liberal extremists (along with a few other groups) lend credence to the "race-baiting" that many think Sharpton and Jackson do. Jackson maybe, Sharpton....not so much.

MANY within Black America don't really care what Jackson or Sharpton say at times. We do care about the National Association of Black Journalists (the people who began the Imus firestorm, and rightfully so.), The National Urban League, and a plethora of other community oriented organizations.

I hope that cleared up some things for you Bock without repeating too much of the same sentiments as my lovely sisters of ALPHA KAPPA ALPHA and a few divas of DELTA SIGMA THETA.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Ok, time for another voice *sigh* where do I begin?

There have been numerous efforts to stymie the use of derogatory language within rap music. (Simply one element of hip-hop culture) From the late C. Dolores Tucker, to Tipper Gore, to Luther Campbell being locked up for lewdness, to more recent events such as Spelman College students protesting a Nelly appearance on their campus, Essence's "Take Back The Music" Campaign, and more subtle attacks from within the hip-hop community on it's own level of "self hatred" (see: Nas' "Hip Hop is Dead, Mos Def's "Tru3 Magic", and for my own personal throw-in Dead Prez's "Turn Off The Radio")

As many in the conservative sector speak of this perceived hypocrisy about Imus' comments vs. Black Music (read: Hip-Hop) I find it amazing that no one speaks of the fact that the people who buy the majority of rap music and fuel the industry are surburban white kids. I find it even more amazing that since these artists and boutique record label CEO's don't own the methods of production and distribution that anyone would think that the black community has any sort of control over what music is released and what propaganda is displayed.

The black vox populi time and again has stated that we want more intelligent music as opposed to b****es, blunts, and 40's however the owners of the record labels hold the keys and the checkbooks. Thus, they take the "artists" who offer the most salacious elements of what some would consider "black life" and make it a multimillion dollar investment. To bring it back to the middle, to suggest that Imus' comments plus black reaction equals hypocrisy is to buy into the MTV/BET/ClearChannel/RadioOne/Cox Communications lie that black life in and of itself is monolithic. Which is obviously wrong and if taken to the extreme could be considered racist.

THE JESSE JACKSON and AL SHARPTON Connection

Truth be told, Jesse makes Al look bad. That is not the point.

Black America has not chosen Jackson and Sharpton as the President and V.P. of Black America. Truth be told, I (and I'm sure MANY others will agree with me) would rather have Michael Eric Dyson, Cornel West, Tavis Smiley, Dick Gregory, Barack Obama, or even Judge Joe Brown speak on behalf of Black America. As stated before, the old conservative guard, neocons, moderate liberals, and liberal extremists (along with a few other groups) lend credence to the "race-baiting" that many think Sharpton and Jackson do. Jackson maybe, Sharpton....not so much.

MANY within Black America don't really care what Jackson or Sharpton say at times. We do care about the National Association of Black Journalists (the people who began the Imus firestorm, and rightfully so.), The National Urban League, and a plethora of other community oriented organizations.

I hope that cleared up some things for you Bock without repeating too much of the same sentiments as my lovely sisters of ALPHA KAPPA ALPHA and a few divas of DELTA SIGMA THETA.

Not getting into the merits of this, but that is something I've changed my mind about over the past couple of years. I always disliked Sharpton more than Jackson until recently, but Sharpton occasionally makes good points and seems more willing to face his opposition. Granted, I still think he race baits, and he also seems more apt to enter into a conflict quicker than does Jackson. I do find it interesting to listen to him though, especially on programs like Glenn Beck.

[Little32]

Good post Pham. One particularly important point, which you highlight, is that the black community is not monolithic. If people do not understand this point on the most basic level, it is will be difficult for them to understand that you can't just pick one person and say that he/she represents all Black Americans.

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Black America has not chosen Jackson and Sharpton as the President and V.P. of Black America. Truth be told, I (and I'm sure MANY others will agree with me) would rather have Michael Eric Dyson, Cornel West, Tavis Smiley, Dick Gregory, Barack Obama, or even Judge Joe Brown speak on behalf of Black America.

To this list, I would add Patricia Hill Collins (who has written a good deal about this very topic), Beverly Guy Sheftall, bell hooks, Angela Davis, excetera, excetera.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

The difference is that in rap/hiphop/etc. the artists are talking about an anonymous 'YOU' whereas in this specific instance, the remarks were directed toward a specific group of named individuals. It is a legitimate moral distinction and supports the rationale taken. While I am not defending misogynist music (I don't listen to, buy or support in any way), there is a difference. I will elaborate more later but I needed to get this said as soon as possible in this thread....

Well that is true, in that he cruelly targeted people who weren't really in the public arena (which what I think the most serious offense was). However, if we're talking about differences, there are a lot of things in rap music that go far beyond the simplicity of Imus's statements. Sometimes they are much more foul and brutal, and on a much larger scale.

I think the difference is that while Imus's comments did immediate damage to a small number of people (you can claim different, but I view the victims as those girls), while rap has done slower but more widespread damage to our society. My take, anyway.