In what circumstances would you support reorganization or closing?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by honeychile

In this exact way, having a review etc, a GLO would have to be crazy to try that again. To wait until the end of the school year, that would be a different story. I can name at least 5 GLOs who consider that policy.

Given the amount of publicity on this story though - any group that tries to immediately do it will probably have a problem, even if they do wait until the end of the school year, unless the current members of the chapter come forward and say they're OK with it. People who haven't really been mentioned in this DePauw affair are the women who were given bids/accepted bids/were technically still pledging. I can't imagine what they must be going through.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Given the amount of publicity on this story though - any group that tries to immediately do it will probably have a problem, even if they do wait until the end of the school year, unless the current members of the chapter come forward and say they're OK with it. People who haven't really been mentioned in this DePauw affair are the women who were given bids/accepted bids/were technically still pledging. I can't imagine what they must be going through.

Agreed about doing this in the coming year. They really shouldn't have even taken a new member class, if this was even considered at the time.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see these "unwanted" women form a local, and for several others to jump on their bandwagon.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

I remember when I was in college and a sorority decided to close, the remaining "actives" were given alumnae status, however I believe that the national officers that worked on the closing helped the women form into an official "club" on campus.

I think some groups do not want to do this because there could still be liability issues, according to the insurance companies--because if it looks, like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. If the group was entirely former collegiate members of a sorority and they were doing social and service activities as a group, then it is possible that someone may still consider that group affiliated, and, in our litigious society, if something were to happen, the sorority could be sued. What would be better would be to form a local alumnae association, keep it covered by the national insurance, and try to get members from other chapters to join.

[FSUZeta]

agdsquirrelgirl gave an example of her campus, where no one is at total, although it appears that most are within ten of total. i would imagine that these chapters are not in trouble with their headquarters membership wise.
have any of these chapters ever been at total-have all of them been at total? it sounds like panhellenic council might want to review the stats in order to answer those questions. the campus may benefit from total being slightly lowered so that at least some of the chapters are at total. why keep a number that noone can reach, just because that is what is has been?

i do have to ask, since the chapters are so near total, why they did not hold an informal recruitment and reach total-especially the chapter who is one below total? out of 59 girls, someone in the chapter has to know a girl on campus who would love to join and would fit in.

there is one chapter on my daughters campus that is below total.the other chapters are way above. they participated in formal recruitment, got what my daughter says is a great pledge class(although they did not pledge quota), but they have not held any informal recruitment events to recruitment more members. they could conceivably reach total if they put forth a major effort , but they don't. while i don't think the chapter deserves to be closed, i think that they might benefit from a visit from a recruitment expert who could help them approach recruitment from a different angle.

i think that people get complacent or don't know how to operate outside the status quo. perhaps our international officers need to look at this and devise a plan and offer training for those chapters who consistently operate below total. the likelihood that the below total chapters will die off at some time significantly increases as the situation persists and the big get bigger while the small get smaller of maintain their small size. it would also behoove each international office to address the situation while the chapters lack a few members to meet total, before the downward spiral begins and playing catchup is almost out of the question.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Heather17

If the group was entirely former collegiate members of a sorority and they were doing social and service activities as a group, then it is possible that someone may still consider that group affiliated, and, in our litigious society, if something were to happen, the sorority could be sued. What would be better would be to form a local alumnae association, keep it covered by the national insurance, and try to get members from other chapters to join.

But by that same token, you could put the liability on the university if it's all university students. All you would have to do would be to say in the constitution that it's an alum association that any alum member of ABC sorority can join if they live in the area. The fact that the only reason an alumna would live there is if she's an "early" alum and going to school still is not the fault of the sorority. To deny a group like this could be trouble too - then you get into things like an alumna has to have graduated from college, has to be 22 or over, etc. I'm pretty sure we all have an alum in an alum chapter somewhere or another who didn't graduate or is younger.

[Tom Earp]

Many great ideas and posts were mentioned in this thread.

First, the DZ and DePaw situation was a fiasco for DZ and gives a black eye for all greeks looked at by outsiders.

Closing a chapter in a R M situation is often tenious. If a few members haze should the whole chapter be held accountable? No. If it is a continuing situation then should the whole chapter be closed? Yes.

Membership.

Who decides what is the total membership?
Most NIC want to have their chapters at least within 10% of all Greek membership of Fraterities. There has to be some limits as how low you can go as I have been told. (this brings up the reason why).
When visitations to chapters by paid HQ members, it cost the same for a 100 person chapter as it does for a 10 person chapter. So the per cost of getting the bang for the buck is a problem there. Where does a National spend the money to get its best worth? Numbers, yes, of course they are important. But are they that vital unless they are so low as to not be functional?

Money owed to Nationals?

Pay your bills, that is the life blood of any Greek Organization and makes it work!

Get in arrears and get into trouble.

Being a Greek National Organization is a Multi Million Dollar business and needs to be run as such. Each member and chapter is a share holder.

Today, many National Organizations are not flush with deep pockets. They are run on a strict budget and cuts have been coming for all of us.

Is there a difference between NIC and NPC being the two largest of the GLO's and thinking, yes there is. Should there be some change in thinkings, maybe.

Food for thought!

[ForeverRoses]

The sorority I was talking about that turned itself into a club- since I wasn't part of it, I'm not sure if they were an official alumnae association or not, but from a University standpoint, in order to have access to meeting rooms and other resources, they had to be a recognized as a "club" by campus life-- so that's what they were. (as for the policy of joining I believe they were technically open to all, but but who would want to join a club that was for alum XYZ members?)

[FSUZeta]

tom:

"total is the allowable chapter size, as determined by the College Panhellenic, and includes both new members and initiated members," as quoted from the NPC green book. "it is determined after studying the current size of the chapters, the availability of potential members, the expected growth in college enrollment and the most desirable chapter size for the campus."

"total figures should be realistic to result in the majority of chapters reaching total chapter size. if all of the chapters are about the same size, a reasonable Total may be determined by dividing the total number of new members and initiated members by the number of chapters."

"reevaluation of the total chapter size may be desirable when the majority of chapters reach and/or exceed the established total, or when no chapter has reached the established total size in several years."

"RESOLVED, that college panhellenic councils prior to evaluation and/or changing total chapter size consult with the NPC area advisor who shall notify NPC delegates with chapter on the campus of this evaluation."

[ForeverRoses]

Since I have never personally been involved in this, does anyone know of a circumstance where a quick-turnaround reorganization or recolonization actually worked? It would seem to me that if a chapter lost it's charter it would take AT LEAST a year or two to get over the stigma of having lost it's charter (regardless of reason) and then I would think that it would take a major PR effort to get the ball rolling (which I can't see happening if you have disgruntled alum members walking around campus).

In a nutshell, I would think that a group would want to stay off campus for at least 3 years before even attempting to return. But what do I know?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

Since I have never personally been involved in this, does anyone know of a circumstance where a quick-turnaround reorganization or recolonization actually worked? ?

Alpha Gamma Delta at Ohio State underwent a reorganization this past quarter and is doing wonderfully.

[FSUZeta]

but was agd on campus continously or did they take some time off and then came back on?

[banditone]

Sometimes you have to close up shop, allow all to go alumni and graduate, and start new - build the house rep from the ground up. Usually along with breaking ground or opening a new house.

Usually with a nationals rep on campus for a year.

[carnation]

A sorority reorganized recently at Ga Southern and from what I hear, is doing great! My daughter went through recruitment before the reorganization and said that they were the one group almost everyone cut the first day because the members were so unenthusiastic. You know how at a lot of rushes, the members sing and clap at each house as you're entering? She said the members just stood there and watched them silently as they entered.

I can see why the national office reorganized. On a campus like that, you don't have enough girls who are 'not your typical sorority girl' to fill the house and pay bills, etc. Either you're the type or if you aren't, you participate in the tons of other activities on that campus. It was simply a downward spiral for the chapter.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

tom:

"total is the allowable chapter size, as determined by the College Panhellenic, and includes both new members and initiated members," as quoted from the NPC green book. "it is determined after studying the current size of the chapters, the availability of potential members, the expected growth in college enrollment and the most desirable chapter size for the campus."

"total figures should be realistic to result in the majority of chapters reaching total chapter size. if all of the chapters are about the same size, a reasonable Total may be determined by dividing the total number of new members and initiated members by the number of chapters."

"reevaluation of the total chapter size may be desirable when the majority of chapters reach and/or exceed the established total, or when no chapter has reached the established total size in several years."

"RESOLVED, that college panhellenic councils prior to evaluation and/or changing total chapter size consult with the NPC area advisor who shall notify NPC delegates with chapter on the campus of this evaluation."

Thank you!

The main thing that sticks out with your post is within "reasonable numbers".

According to the last Greek Advisor at my Alma Mater where there are only three Sororities, they were not making quota so therefore no more would be allowed to present to come to campus. We have a campus of @ 6,500 people so there are bodies there fro recruitment.

Maybe that is why this quota thing has always been a problem with me!

[FSUZeta]

quota is different than total.

quota is the maximum number of new members a chapter can pledge. to quote the green book again:

"quota is set each year during formal recruitment by vote of the college panhellenic council. npc recommends that in order to be flexible in quota setting one of the two quota methods outlined be used:

quota setting method 1

quota shall equal the number of women accepting at least one invitation to the first or second round of invitational events divided by the number of fraternity(womens) chapters.

example: registered number of pnms-350
#accepting first invitational event-300
# of NPC groups=6
300 divided by 6=50
quota will be 50"

which means that every chapter may pledge a maximum of 50 new members. each fraternity regardless of size, is entitled to pledge the full quota at any time during the year even if by doing so, the allowable total chapter size is exceeded and the formal recruitment period is over.

the alternative method (2) uses an average percentage of the women pledged during the last three years, divided by the number of fraternity chapters. quota equals the number of women registering and attending the first membership recruitment function, multiplied by the average %, divided by the number of chapters.

now i do know that some cpcs, to maximize the number of women the chapters can take, and thusly maximizing the odds that the remaining women will recieve a bid, will take the number of women who attended preference parties divided by the number of chapters as quota.

"reasonable Total" means a total that the majority will be able to achieve and sustain. in other words, if no chapter is a total, then cpc should not raise total-perhaps they should reevaluate and lower total. if all chapters are over total, then total should be raised, or cpc should think about inviting another sorority to come on to campus.