Michigan's Prop 2 to ban affirmative action

[PM_Mama00]

I don't think affirmative action within the school system should go cold turkey, but I just don't think it's fair for someone who really deserves to get into a school not get in because a minority took their place. I still think the little box that says "Check ethnicity" or whatever should be taken off and admission be strictly on test scores, activities, and GPA.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I don't think affirmative action within the school system should go cold turkey, but I just don't think it's fair for someone who really deserves to get into a school not get in because a minority took their place. I still think the little box that says "Check ethnicity" or whatever should be taken off and admission be strictly on test scores, activities, and GPA.

Do you think that a minority student deserved to get into college less than you did?

[macallan25]

If the minority student is less qualified than me....then no......I absolutely don't think he or she deserves it.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I don't think affirmative action within the school system should go cold turkey, but I just don't think it's fair for someone who really deserves to get into a school not get in because a minority took their place. I still think the little box that says "Check ethnicity" or whatever should be taken off and admission be strictly on test scores, activities, and GPA.

In Canada, some programs ask you if you consider yourself an ethnic minority or if you are native, but you are never asked what race you are. Do you think it's better to be ambiguous like this?

[macallan25]

I don't think there should be any ambiguity.......there shouldn't be anything like it period. Qualifications and performance should be the deciding factors.

[AKA_Monet]

Mac-

I am only responding to you, personally.

You KNOW that qualifications and performance will NEVER be the final deciding factors, EVER...

That is NOT how this "game" is played here in the United States.

I wish it was about equality, fairness and merit. But in life, it is not. It is about money, plain and simple. I all comes down to the money. If you have enough of it, you can get yourself into anywhere...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I don't think affirmative action within the school system should go cold turkey, but I just don't think it's fair for someone who really deserves to get into a school not get in because a minority took their place. I still think the little box that says "Check ethnicity" or whatever should be taken off and admission be strictly on test scores, activities, and GPA.

I wish it were that simple as someone taking someone else's place.

I think DSTChaos has discussed this in enough detail that it is not that simple. However, either you refuse to understand a Sociologist, Ph.D. or you hate examining the full-spectrum of the truth(s).

There are numerous factors that go into admissions. Some schools have "cut-off points" where they can take the "cream of the crop". Namely places like Harvard can afford to do something like that... If you "fit" into one of "their" categories, they will admit you over another student.

Do you KNOW how State Colleges and Universities are funded or endowed?

I can tell you many State Colleges and Universities are poorly-funded, losing endownments and the US governments is pulling funds everyday from them.

Your pissante school tuition barely pays for the lightbulb in the chittiest desk lamp.

Where does the money all go? Good question! And I can tell you it is NOT to the BCS...

State Colleges and Universities do NOT have money to place over 100,000 kids in undergraduate college... There are not enough professors. There are not enough instructors, there are not enough administrators.

Kicking students out is not changing the number of kids who want college degrees.

The only thing that is looking like it works is Computer-based learning. But it only works with serious students who are alternative 25 year olds+...

Hayle for every class I have taught, I'd rather make it an internet course anyway...

Most Universities sell-out. Period. If Bill Gates/Paul Allen decided to buy UW and make it his Microsoft biatch today--UW would do it...

Google can buy Stanford... Emory is bought and paid for by Coca-Cola...

Hayle, Citgo may buy University of Miami just to see if they can do it...

That is what your college education is about now...

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I wish it was about equality, fairness and merit. But in life, it is not. It is about money, plain and simple. I all comes down to the money. If you have enough of it, you can get yourself into anywhere...

No matter how "qualified" you are.

[Taualumna]

If you look at it from an anti-affirmative action POV, you COULD end up with a freshman engineering class made up mostly of Asian males.

[ufdale]

I have a huge problem with affirmative action.
If we say that minorities should be given an extra hand because they had less opportunities (poor schools, parents didn't go to college, whatever), then what about white children who went to the same schools, same background? The majority of children in poverty are white children and it seems that these are the kids that are getting left behind the most.
I'm native american. Of course I'm going to check the NA/I box (if it asks, should I deny it?), but did I need help getting into college? No. Both of my parents went to college, there also was enough money for me to attend college, but just because I am NA I recieved dozens of offers for grants/loans/scholarships that my white bf (who really needed the money) didn't receive.
Sure minorities might need extra help (due to condition, not race), but are we going about this the best way? Are we helping those minorities who need help the most? I think of America as more of a class based society, than race based. (But would people want to check lower class, middle or upper?)

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Mac-

I am only responding to you, personally.

You KNOW that qualifications and performance will NEVER be the final deciding factors, EVER...

That is NOT how this "game" is played here in the United States.

I wish it was about equality, fairness and merit. But in life, it is not. It is about money, plain and simple. I all comes down to the money. If you have enough of it, you can get yourself into anywhere...

I can agree with you in some instances. Connections can play a big role too. However, I definitely know of plenty guys my age from insanely wealthy families that haven't gotten into schools.......and the are very well known.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by ufdale

I have a huge problem with affirmative action.
If we say that minorities should be given an extra hand because they had less opportunities (poor schools, parents didn't go to college, whatever), then what about white children who went to the same schools, same background? The majority of children in poverty are white children and it seems that these are the kids that are getting left behind the most.
I'm native american. Of course I'm going to check the NA/I box (if it asks, should I deny it?), but did I need help getting into college? No. Both of my parents went to college, there also was enough money for me to attend college, but just because I am NA I recieved dozens of offers for grants/loans/scholarships that my white bf (who really needed the money) didn't receive.
Sure minorities might need extra help (due to condition, not race), but are we going about this the best way? Are we helping those minorities who need help the most? I think of America as more of a class based society, than race based. (But would people want to check lower class, middle or upper?)

Based on your simple logic, you should have never checked the Native American box...

Nobody's faulting you if you don't want to be an ethnic group. It is fine with us. You can be proud to choose nothing. But don't be an ethnic group on paper...

Low-income does play a role in the current University programs in States that eliminated Affirmative Action...

So your question is a moot point...

I just mentored an entering freshman who was caucasian, whose mother was a crack addict prostitute. And I had NADA problems helping this young lady out to achieve her goals...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I can agree with you in some instances. Connections can play a big role too. However, I definitely know of plenty guys my age from insanely wealthy families that haven't gotten into schools.......and the are very well known.

You know your friends wanted to attend some SEC school just to be on the winning team...

Man the PAC-10 SUCKS!!! And the what's up with the ACC?--wait don't answer that question, 'cuz I don't wanna know...

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

You know your friends wanted to attend some SEC school just to be on the winning team...

Man the PAC-10 SUCKS!!! And the what's up with the ACC?--wait don't answer that question, 'cuz I don't wanna know...

Hahaha.....you may actually be right.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

And the what's up with the ACC?

The same thing that's always wrong with the ACC during football season -- waiting for basketball season.