Hard core Risk Management peeps

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by 33girl
You're saying people who have been in combat. She's saying people who have been in the military in general. There's a difference.

Ehh, most of the people I know who have been in the military have also been in combat, so I guess I wasn't making a huge distinction.

I guess it depends on how you define maturity. If you define it as being able to accept orders, shut up when you disagree with someone in authority, work hard, stop whining, etc. -- then sure, people in the military are generally more mature than the population at large. But when it comes to making rational, well-thought-out personal decisions, or balancing their short-term wants against long-term needs, or relating to people who aren't carrying guns (heh -- kidding, sort of), or evaluating risky behaviors, or many things beyond what I've mentioned -- they often fall short of their non-military counterparts. Let's face it -- the military doesn't prepare you for "the real world." That's not their job. Their job is to prepare you for war. And sometimes the skills for the real world and the skills for war can be the same -- discipline, for example -- but just as often, they contradict each other. Most of the people I knew who served in the military were pretty mature in terms of their professional/academic lives, but when it came to their emotional/personal lives and thought processes, there were some developmental issues. Nothing about the army would stop them from, say, thinking it was a good idea to drink a handle of vodka and falling out a window. They would probably be better than I am at sitting down and forcing themselves to write a paper, though . . . haha.

I've had a couple conversations with one of the guys that I'm closest to, and it struck me how many drugs he and the guys in his unit (is that what it's called? I don't know military terminology) were putting into their systems at some points in Iraq just to cope with the reality of the situation they were in. Maybe they were the exception and not the rule, but I find it hard to believe that it's THAT rare. This same boy has displayed some definite PTSD symptoms from being in Iraq and, now that he's out of the military and into college, uses drugs and alcohol to self-medicate more than anyone else I know. He may not be the rule, but I've seen this pattern repeated enough times with other military friends and acquaintances to know that they aren't the exception, either.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by 33girl
So in other words he is saying if you trained in a combat division but perhaps never saw actual combat with an enemy? In that case, I even more totally back what Heather said.

I am sure he can speak for himself. But the people I knew with military training were much more mature. I mean maybe that girl knows a lot of military people who just happen to live in Madison who aren't mature, but that wasn't my experience. A lot of the places that recruit also take very well to anyone with that military background because of that maturity.

-Rudey

[saetex]

Originally posted by 33girl
So in other words he is saying if you trained in a combat division but perhaps never saw actual combat with an enemy? In that case, I even more totally back what Heather said.

just because you are not seeing active combat does not mean that you are just sitting in the US on your ass doing nothing. More often than not troops will be strategically placed around the country in combat ready units at bases and aircraft carriers. If you are going to sit here and try to convince me that an 18 year kid with a drinking problem has the same maturity level as an officer or NCO in the army or marines, you are just being an idiot. We have been at war or in combat for the better part of the last 15 years, Gulf, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc. I have a friend who is 21 years old and is in the special forces. He was in a platoon that were the very first to infiltrate Afghanistan, Baghdad, and Falujha. They were dropped by airplane behind enemy lines in groups of three. THREE. Can you honestly say that his maturity level is on par with a bunch of drunk college students. Shit, im the same age as the guy and I look up to him almost more than anyone.

[sugar and spice]

You're taking a special circumstance. Of course someone in a position of authority is going to be more mature than your average kid -- he was put into a position of authority because he already WAS more mature and more capable of handling authority than his peers. You're also comparing someone who is much older and thus SHOULD be more mature with kids who are 20 or 22 (as I was referring to when addressing DeltAlum's example).

Am I saying that everyone in the military is immature? Obviously not. Am I saying that the average kid who goes into the military at 18 or 19 and comes out at 22 or 23 is probably going to be just as immature as a kid that goes into college at 18 or 19 and comes out at 22 or 23? Yeah, basically.


Apples and oranges. You're not even addressing my point.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
You're taking a special circumstance. Of course someone in a position of authority is going to be more mature than your average kid -- he was put into a position of authority because he already WAS more mature and more capable of handling authority than his peers. You're also comparing someone who is much older and thus SHOULD be more mature with kids who are 20 or 22 (as I was referring to when addressing DeltAlum's example).

Am I saying that everyone in the military is immature? Obviously not. Am I saying that the average kid who goes into the military at 18 or 19 and comes out at 22 or 23 is probably going to be just as immature as a kid that goes into college at 18 or 19 and comes out at 22 or 23? Yeah, basically.


Apples and oranges. You're not even addressing my point.

And you have nothing to back up your point other than some unverifiable personal story about some unverifiable military friends.

-Rudey

[shinerbock]

Back to what people were saying about the weeding out...I disagree, in part. I think you should, as a friend, brother, sister, however you wanna look at it, aid and care for your friends when they're tanked and on the verge of doing something stupid. However, I do not feel it is your "responsibility" to look after them, but rather simply the correct thing to do. There has to be some amount of personal responsibility, and frankly I'm tired of hearing schools, parents, whoever, blame a person or fraternity for their child harming him/herself

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by shinerbock
Back to what people were saying about the weeding out...I disagree, in part. I think you should, as a friend, brother, sister, however you wanna look at it, aid and care for your friends when they're tanked and on the verge of doing something stupid. However, I do not feel it is your "responsibility" to look after them, but rather simply the correct thing to do. There has to be some amount of personal responsibility, and frankly I'm tired of hearing schools, parents, whoever, blame a person or fraternity for their child harming him/herself

Well said -- I agree.

It really bothers me when parents act like they're entitled to have schools and/or organizations finish raising their kids because they couldn't/didn't do it themselves. Of course your fraternity brothers (or whoever) should help you out if you mess up and have way too much to drink -- but parents should not DEMAND that or anything else, including ridiculous rules and regulations on campuses and in organizations.