Advice to rushers: re: legacies

[Buttonz]

Originally posted by WVU alpha phi
I think you handled this situation really well. My grandlittle came through rush this year and had a best friend in another sorority on campus. She preffed us and her best friend's sorority, and I can see her totally fitting into both. She told our girl preffing her that she liked us more but she felt like she was betraying her friend if she chose Alpha Phi, and she had mentioned it to her friend, who didn't really seem too keen on telling her otherwise. Our girl preffing her had to work hard to convince her to do the sorority that was right for her, and if the other girl REALLY is a true friend, she will understand.
My grandlittle chose us, she makes a great addition to my family and our chapter as a whole, AND she's still good friends with her best friend before recruitment.

Ouch! I can't imagine what my best friend would have done if I acted like that. Like I told my best friend, every chapter is different. If she was at my school. she would have gone SDT without a problem, but that was also because what my chapter was like. She wasn't at my school and the SDT chapter by her is very different that mine. She had to do what was right for her, not for me, and I told her that. I'm glad I didn't push her. And I got to go shoppign for Phi Sig stuff after she got in for her

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by carnation
It's like legacies don't count anymore.

This comment really jumped out at me because I was just talking about this not too long ago with my family. I'm guessing legacies used to "matter" a lot more than they do now, because when my parents were in school being a legacy was almost like a free ticket in. What bothers me is that they think things still work this way, and my younger sister has grown up hearing that since she's a legacy to two houses (one through me, and one through our older sisters) she'll have an easy time getting into one of them. I just hope that if she does eventually rush, she won't end up disappointed...

[alum]

I think we have to stress to our daughters that our own group may not want her, which is a shame. Carnation almost had it easier with her girls not going where PiPhi was....

[FSUZeta]

it is up to us to explain the legacy policy to our legacy. that way they go in knowing that there are no guarantees. if they are invited back past the courteous invite, it is most likely because they are liked for themselves, not just because they are a legacy.

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by alum
I think we have to stress to our daughters that our own group may not want her, which is a shame. Carnation almost had it easier with her girls not going where PiPhi was....

Likewise, it is just as important to let the legacy know she should choose where feels most comfortable, even if it is not her legacy chapter. She shouldn't feel obligated to keep going back, or pledge, just for the sake of her sister, mother, grandmother, if she knows that's not where she belongs.

[yogawits]

I think it would be difficult to hear that a daughter or sister was not wanted by a chapter, but if they attend schools so many years apart, the chapter might be totally different by then and the daughter/sister may not find the chapter to be a good match. Either way, I think that houses should be more clear and up front with their legacy rules ( because it does vary from school to school) so that the legacies can be prepared.

I do think that legacies should at least get one courtesy invite back because it is espcially crushing for them if they get rejected. I do not however, believe that they should be automatically in either.

[WVU alpha phi]

Originally posted by irishpipes
I know this isn't the point of your story, but it really struck me...

Do you mean that she mentioned it to her friend during a rush party? Otherwise, she shouldn't have been talking about this with her friend during rush, unless your campus has different rules about dirty rushing. This seems to be one of the very scenarios that the silence rules were put in place to avoid.

I'm not sure if she mentioned it to her friend during a rush party or not. Actually, that's never even occured to me but it's a good point. My campus has the policy that sisters aren't allowed to talk to PNMs at all during recruitment, whether it's about rush or not (unless there's a rare case where you're in a study group with a sister and you must talk to her for school). I don't think her friend was necessarily trying to dirty rush her (I know the girl too, we all lived on the same floor freshman year, and she doesn't seem like the type) but probably just really emphasizing that she wanted her to be her sister? I'm not sure.
Even if it was a case of dirty rushing, I don't think my sorority would've mentioned it to Panehellenic. The other sorority is probably the one we're closest with on campus, so we probably wouldn't have done anything about it - plus, we got the girl we wanted.

[33girl]

Originally posted by ISUKappa
Likewise, it is just as important to let the legacy know she should choose where feels most comfortable, even if it is not her legacy chapter. She shouldn't feel obligated to keep going back, or pledge, just for the sake of her sister, mother, grandmother, if she knows that's not where she belongs.

Exactly - she might go to the chapter and say "I can't stand these girls, but my mom wants me here so bad" and end up with a crappy sorority experience because she thought that.

[wildcatsKSU]

I am a little torn on my opinion of legacies. Yes i think that it is fair for them to recieve "special consideration" but at the same time if the chapter doesnt like the legacy then whats the point of keeping them around? Even though someone might be a legacy she may not be a good fit for the chapter.

[carnation]

Well, like I said, guys...I pretty much thought the way y'all do until my daughters rushed and then it's a whole new ball game. Picture how you'll feel if your daughter is cut from your sorority. You probably won't be thinking she would be a better fit elsewhere.

And she won't be thinking that either in the heat of recruitment. She'll be thinking that it was pretty obvious that they didn't want her if they dropped her as soon as possible--i.e., right after second parties.

I know there are moms reading this whose daughters were cut from their sororities and my heart goes out to you.

[kddani]

I'd want my daughter to be happy, no matter what house she did or did not get into. That would matter to me more than anything.

I wouldn't want her to go into a house that she didn't like just b/c she was a legacy. She likely wouldn't be happy, because she didn't like the house.

I wouldn't want her to get strung along by a house and given more than one courtesy invite, when the house really didn't think she was a good fit and then cut her right before prefs. I've seen numerous complaints in threads on here about houses continuing to give invites to women that they didn't intend to pref or give a bid to just so that their parties look full, etc. Then that girl gets her hopes up and gets crushed even more. If a house does not think a woman is a good fit, then don't invite them back. Give other houses a chance to get to know her, and let her get to know other houses she may fit into better.

I wouldn't want her to receive a bid to a house just because she was a legacy if the sisters didn't think she was a good fit outside of the fact that she was a legacy. Who wants to go somewhere where you weren't really wanted?

My daughter's happiness will matter more than whether she joins KD or XYZ or doesn't go greek at all.

Regardless of whether or not someone is a legacy, rush is, and has been, MUTUAL SELECTION.

[carnation]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kddani
[B]I'd want my daughter to be happy, no matter what house she did or did not get into. That would matter to me more than anything.

I wouldn't want her to go into a house that she didn't like just b/c she was a legacy. She likely wouldn't be happy, because she didn't like the house.

I wouldn't want her to get strung along by a house and given more than one courtesy invite, when the house really didn't think she was a good fit and then cut her right before prefs.

I wouldn't want her to receive a bid to a house just because she was a legacy if the sisters didn't think she was a good fit outside of the fact that she was a legacy. Who wants to go somewhere where you weren't really wanted?

My daughter's happiness will matter more than whether she joins KD or XYZ or doesn't go greek at all. [QUOTE]

What has been happening to legacies in the big schools here is that, due to the heavy cuts now required, often among the first to go are girls who are legacies to other groups--especially double legacies or more--the sororities are saying, 'Why waste a space on someone who will surely go to her sister's/mother's sorority?" They get cut by their legacy house and most others early in recruitment, leaving them nowhere to go. I can think of at least 8 PNMs to whom that happened this past fall.

I want my daughters to be happy too. That's why I hope that they don't get cut heavily in rush, because that's devastating to most girls around here who rush; it's a huge ego blow. Your standard 18-year-old won't be thinking, "Okay, I got cut by 14 groups out of 16, let's regroup and see who really wants me." She'll probably be so torn up and shocked that she drops out of recruitment, especially if everyone around her has had a positive recruitment.

Last year, 2 PNMs we know chose not to put their legacy status on their applications. I understand why.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by carnation
Well, like I said, guys...I pretty much thought the way y'all do until my daughters rushed and then it's a whole new ball game. Picture how you'll feel if your daughter is cut from your sorority. You probably won't be thinking she would be a better fit elsewhere.

And she won't be thinking that either in the heat of recruitment. She'll be thinking that it was pretty obvious that they didn't want her if they dropped her as soon as possible--i.e., right after second parties.

I know there are moms reading this whose daughters were cut from their sororities and my heart goes out to you.

I'm afraid that's how I would feel about a daughter. I think I would be WAY emotional about her being cut from my sorority. I would be more "that's my baby you think isn't good enough for you", instead of being rational. It might sound wrong, it might sound idealistic, but I'm definitely one of those "don't you dare hurt one of mine!" people!

[pinkyphimu]

What has been happening to legacies in the big schools here is that, due to the heavy cuts now required, often among the first to go are girls who are legacies to other groups--especially double legacies or more--the sororities are saying, 'Why waste a space on someone who will surely go to her sister's/mother's sorority?" They get cut by their legacy house and most others early in recruitment, leaving them nowhere to go. I can think of at least 8 PNMs to whom that happened this past fall.

[/B][/QUOTE]

while the origional intent of this thread was a message to chapters about its legacies, i think it is important for other chapters not to discount a legacy with the expectation that she will go to her legacy house.

carnation,
did there seem to be a difference for women you mentioned who were legacies to multiple chapters on campus vs women who were a legacy to only one chapter on campus vs the women who were double legacies to one chapter?

[aephi alum]

It's a shame that legacies are feeling a need to deny their legacy status because they are afraid of being cut by the sororities they're not a legacy to.

I'm reminded of one of my chapter sisters, a fellow founder of my chapter. Her aunt is an AEPhi. The aunt would not allow her daughters to attend any college where there wasn't a chapter of AEPhi. Not one of them actually went AEPhi. The aunt was, of course, disappointed, but I'd like to think her daughters were happy with their decisions - they followed their hearts, and their hearts led them to other sororities. Still, the aunt had her moment - she flew out for our initiation and gave her badge to her niece. (AEPhi does not consider nieces to be legacies.)

I hope that any hypothetical future daughter of mine follows her heart. If she joins AEPhi, great - I'll be at her initiation and proudly pin her with my badge. If not, I will be happy for her as long as she's happy with her decision. If she's cut from AEPhi, yes, I will be annoyed, but it means it wasn't meant to be.

The problem is that, sometimes, when a legacy rushes, there are erroneous expectations all around.

- A legacy has to understand that the courtesy invite to 2nd round is a courtesy to her mother (or whoever) and that she might not get invited back for the next round.
- A legacy has to understand that if the chapter invites her back beyond the courtesy invite, it's because the chapter wants her for who she is, not just because she's a legacy.
- The chapter she's a legacy to has to understand that just because she's a legacy doesn't mean she's a good fit.
- The chapters she's not a legacy to have to understand that she's not automatically going to go to her mother's sorority, and that they're not necessarily wasting a space by inviting her back.
- The mother has to understand that just because she was a good fit for XYZ at University A in 1995, doesn't mean her daughter will be a good fit for XYZ at University B in 2025.
- EVERYONE has to understand that legacy status does NOT guarantee a bid from the legacy sorority!

Absolutely, a sorority should (and is required to) give a legacy special consideration, but if she's not a good fit, she's not a good fit.