Spike says "Do the Right Thing, stop the "School Daze"

[AKA_Monet]

Sistermadly--

I am here with you up in the Pac NW. The problem here is there is too much egoism, pride (from the old ways of doing things) and "feudalism"--or fifedoms.

I think the reason why it is that way is that is the way some "folks" want it. I.E. Billy Gates, Paulie Allen, et al. There is no motivation to make the effective changes that are needed to make it happen up here for any child of African descent to succeed. I see it EVERYDAY at UW... And you can forget about the entire state of Oregon...

You also have the issue of "claiming heritage" up here. For instance, there should BE NO REASON WHY the ONLY African American Museum in the Puget Sound area (Tacoma, WA) had to close its doors. Aside from gross mismanagement and lack of support, there is some "old guard" that actually does not have the corporate structure and ideology needed to reason with these wonderful "Mercer Island/Bellevue/Redmond/Issaquah/Spokane folks" who run things up here. Moreover, many folks actually do not want to be considered of African descent here. You can see that all over the place.

You could say probably the most effective group of African Americans in this area are maybe, Blacks at Microsoft, Boeing Employees, Weyerhauser and Niketown in Portland--and really other than personally connecting up in Bellevue on Friday nights, what do they really do? And those folks are pretty much corporate and spread out--so what connection do they really have? Really? And they dayum sho don't want any "real life changing African Americans" from the outside to do anything--just look at what happened at Mt. Zion Baptist Church in Seattle...

I really don't mean to get on your case and I do not intend to focus my comments on you, but I am working in these community service organizations up here and I nary see a even a "negro" to acknowledge my existance even in non-Af Am. organizations--I am usually the "token" and I hate it...

And really, the way the MLK day celebration is planned up here is bucket stoopid... Really. I have NEVER EVER ATTENDED a jacked up meeting like that EVER in my life...

Besides making like "logical decisions" of connecting two groups of folks together is like pulling hen's teeth. Hayle, like who would think that a dental program at a community college could have some of their students as part of their training share proper care of dental appliances at an old folks home would NOT be beneficial for both parties? Who would have a problem with that? But, that is what happened when I tried to facilitate this process...

And the few black folks up here trying to make effective change--man if I haven't seen what it takes to be a superhero, then, dayum I don't know what else needs to be done...

[AKA_Monet]

Although I share some agreement with Spike on what he said, he did, back in the day--like 1990 told homedude at Morehouse about how "She's Gotta Have It" and "Do The Right Thing" were rated "R" movies and children ought not to be attending after homedude told him that he was a "role model" for young people...

So it is somewhat bold of Spike to say what he said given what he did when he started... It sounds like now that he is all high falluntin', that other African Americans who are trying to break it in the film business and barely get greenlighted to do "insightful" films, like "Diary of a Mad Black Woman", would have someone as prominent as Spike curse them out for filmaking in general...

Now, fiddy pennies, either he is truly a clown or he really is that smart, and laughs all the way to the bank--or die tryin' has his pulse on what some folks will actually PAY MONEY to see--negroes killin' negroes flicks... 'Cuz we dayum sho would be sneakin' into the movies and bootleg that chit before actually PAYING a dolla to see it...

Besides, you think these big studio execs give a dayum about greenlighting positive African American movies that can be "proven beyond their shadow of a doubt" to make buttloads of money at the theater and DVD sales? NO.

So we will NEVER EVA see a positive African American movie with that fall in a positively minded genre without having to "add too much water" to the script...

Baffoonery and minstrelism and criminality pays. And yes, the price is high. But that's what "moviegoing audiences" that are in these "focus groups" wanna see... Now, who are in these "focus groups" and who decides these things... Hmmmm????

So that's why "Birth of a Nation" could be remade and make a ton of money. And I'm gonna do it and laugh all the way to the bank--or die tryin'...

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
I really don't mean to get on your case and I do not intend to focus my comments on you, but I am working in these community service organizations up here and I nary see a even a "negro" to acknowledge my existance even in non-Af Am. organizations--I am usually the "token" and I hate it...

And I didn't take it as such. Not to make this all about me, but here in Vancouver, there aren't any civic/social organizations that have service to the Black community as their mission -- mainly because we're such a small part of the population here, but also for many of the same reasons you alluded to in your post. But your notion of cultural fiefdoms? I am right here >< with you, AKA_Monet. Vancouver is exactly the same.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
And I didn't take it as such. Not to make this all about me, but here in Vancouver, there aren't any civic/social organizations that have service to the Black community as their mission -- mainly because we're such a small part of the population here, but also for many of the same reasons you alluded to in your post. But your notion of cultural fiefdoms? I am right here >< with you, AKA_Monet. Vancouver is exactly the same.

I gotta ask though... as seen other threads; ie. the too 'white' too 'black' thread; do you see the anti-intellectualism issue as solely a 'black' vs 'white' issue? Or as an issue of people getting upset because they think someone is acting superior?

The reason I ask - somewhat inelegantly - is that I'm wondering how much of the "better" man is based on a 'white american' ideal - ie. the "melting-pot"; and how much is predicated by some level of envy of any "success"?

Basically - even though I can't identify with it - I think that Spike has a very valid point: success is the best way to change a system rigged against you, because even if it doesn't highlight the stupidity of the system at least it puts you in a position to change it somehow.

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by RACooper
I gotta ask though... as seen other threads; ie. the too 'white' too 'black' thread; do you see the anti-intellectualism issue as solely a 'black' vs 'white' issue? Or as an issue of people getting upset because they think someone is acting superior?

I see it as a global issue (which is what I said in an earlier post). Perhaps global is the wrong word -- universal might be more appropriate. One only needs to look at who currently occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to see evidence of it.

The reason I ask - somewhat inelegantly - is that I'm wondering how much of the "better" man is based on a 'white american' ideal - ie. the "melting-pot"; and how much is predicated by some level of envy of any "success"?

I think I see what you're getting at... and I think there might be a nugget of truth to your question. I think there is a certain amount of nihilism at play in disenfranchised communities as well, and I think that when a person has reduced or non-existent expectations for achievement that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You see someone striving while you're standing still, and your envy makes you want to tear that other person down instead of pulling them aside and asking "Hey, how did you make it? And how can I?" If one is envious of the "haves", then getting depressed and failing to achieve doesn't seem like the right answer, IMO. I understand how difficult and demoralizing it can be - I lived that reality for most of my life - but simply giving up and failing to "check in" is not the way to go about this.

The key is to challenge those diminished expectations and, perhaps, to develop a different definition of what it means to succeed. Condoleeza Rice might not have Oprah's money, but she's a success. Marva Collins was a school teacher/school administrator, but she was a success. The doctor down the street who had to work several jobs to put himself through undergraduate and medical school is a success, not simply because he's a doctor, but because he challenged people's expectations and beat them.

The American Dream is unfairly stacked against a number of minority communities, primarily because people in these communities have been denied access to things like wealth or the ability to accumulate financial capital, or the access to cultural capital that opens doors. What needs to happen - and what used to happen in the past - was that we created our own networks, had our own systems of cultural capital and used them to our advantage. But somewhere we became derailed from these systems and ended up where we are now. I look at the circumstances AKA_Monet was describing and that seems like evidence of this - people tearing the other down instead of trying to find a workable solution that benefits everyone.

Maybe competing on "the man's" turf using "the man's" rules isn't the best way to negotiate these spaces. Maybe what we need is some sort of hybridized rules to that addresses our particular situation as 'hybridized' people.

It's early and I'm not awake yet so I don't know how much of this is gibberish.

[Lady of Pearl]

What is needed for our youth is a moral role model- be they educated or uneducated. What is sadly lacking in our society is a moral role model for our youth to look up to. Teachers, preachers,- use to be role models but with our pervasive culture of immorality and greed there are no real role models for our youth to look up to that are highlighted in the media. Yes I agree that a positive Black film is not the norm. I think the movie The Gospel put forth a good effort in its attempt, where we saw a young man turn his back on the trappings of this world and decided to make a moral and personal decision with his life. More films like this should be appreciated by youth- but sadly they wish to view get rich or die trying with 50 cent. They see this as the life to aspire to.

[3x'sblu]

What Spike Lee is saying is true but, there is such a thing as freedom of speech. so it is a catch 22 situation simply because rappers do whatever will make them money so that they can feed their family

[dirtymike1906]

Sadly, every 10 years or so, young generations find a new way to recreate the same old thug/hustler/pimp persona and amplify "coolness" to new levels. The young thugs with pants drooping around their knees are the same pimps that used to wear finger waves and push Buick Elektra 225s with whitewalls and "diamonds in the back..." Call me cynical, but I'm convinced that as a people, we'll never be fully able to live down embarrassing, senseless habits.

[Steeltrap]

^^
I don't think so, either. Some of us can, but too many of us are still caught up. On the other hand, the fact is that there are many different kinds of AfAms and we just can't go in lockstep from poverty to affluence. Too many class issues at work.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by TonyB06
"Back then, we were not called sellouts for using our brains. And being intelligent was not frowned upon,"

*bump*

That's actually UNTRUE, although it makes for exciting propaganda.

Intellect was valued in certain social and educational settings then as it is now. People wanted to get out of the slums through hardwork and education then as they do now, despite what the media portrayals are. However, blacks who wanted to mingle outside of an "elite" circle were generally conscious about the dual identity they needed to maintain.

Anthologies of Black America, such as those conducted by W.E.B DuBois, indicate that many blacks always felt the need to fulfill a cultural stereotype and not display what were viewed as "white traits." The rise of the Black bourgoise also saw a tendency of the children of these middle and upperclass Blacks to "slum" in an attempt to speak and dress a certain way. They wanted to fit in with their lower class and (usually) less educated peers. There were glorified pimps and hustlers back then, too.

[ladygreek]

Dearest Chaos,

You never cease to amaze me--beauty and brains in abundance!

Love,
Mom

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Dearest Chaos,

You never cease to amaze me--beauty and brains in abundance!

Love,
Mom

Thanks, mama.

(Your check's in the mail.....)

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
*bump*

That's actually UNTRUE, although it makes for exciting propaganda.

Intellect was valued in certain social and educational settings then as it is now. People wanted to get out of the slums through hardwork and education then as they do now, despite what the media portrayals are. However, blacks who wanted to mingle outside of an "elite" circle were generally conscious about the dual identity they needed to maintain.

Anthologies of Black America, such as those conducted by W.E.B DuBois, indicate that many blacks always felt the need to fulfill a cultural stereotype and not display what were viewed as "white traits." The rise of the Black bourgoise also saw a tendency of the children of these middle and upperclass Blacks to "slum" in an attempt to speak and dress a certain way. They wanted to fit in with their lower class and (usually) less educated peers. There were glorified pimps and hustlers back then, too.

that quote was from Shelton Lee, not me.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by TonyB06
that quote was from Shelton Lee, not me.

I knew you'd respond with this. LOL.

I know that it wasn't your quote. Reading the article and seeing the quotation marks followed by "Lee said" are what clued me in.

[Maroon Hawk]

As I listen to 3 6 Mafia (Dis bleep, Dat bleep), read what my friend is typing me about the degradation of black youth by today's commercial urban music, and read this forum, I can only shake my head.


I'm not that old, but I think:

- The black community has gotten comfortable. We came this far, and we can sacrifice and keep gambling, but why? To help some family that's less off? The parents of that family should be doing more that way their children can do better. I (I don't really mean that I think this) shouldn't have to push harder for them. I need to worry about me and mines. Sure, when tragedy strikes, we're all up in arms about how our people are getting the worst end of the stick. However, at other times, majority of people do not care (not to say everyone). We've turned into a bunch of hypocrites.


example: I went to the SGA and Student Activities during the summer to ask if we could work towards getting buses to bus students to the Millions More event. The SGA president was more concerned about saving funds for the annual six flags trip.

On college students:

- I wish we had more students who could at least talk good game. I don't know that many. Majority (who are actually the minority on a college campus) are involved in student organizations. Outside of members of different orgs, the rest of my campus are just passing through. They're trying to get paid, but could care less about expanding their horizons. Yes, I am one of those students who is probably considered a good game talker. I long to help out this jacked up community and will talk til tomorrow about it, but it's hard to figure out how on the grand scale (and thinkin small seems just that...thinkin small). We're a misguided group...student leaders of today. We're running on fumes from the former leaders of the 50s and 60s because it feels like our parents' generation got skipped over but they raised us. We're stuck between being like every one else and being bold & different. I think Spike Lee was in the right place and not preaching to the choir. He was preaching to those who would probably benefit the most. Black college students of today have made it far...in a time where you're either a comfy exec or struggling & poor, they still have a choice. The fire in them can still be lit. When? Sadly, I can't tell you.