Vanderbilt: Panhell presidents oppose sorority recruitment consultant

[PM_Mama00]

Now that I know that she was a member at that particular school, I think it's a good idea. Still not so sure on the money part tho.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I really see nothing wrong with this - it is definitely not needed on every campus, but at a school wiht a competitive recruitment, if a girl wants to pay for it, why not? I think it might be superior to the advice on GC given that she actually sees and interacts with the PNM on the same level that the sorority members will be during recruitment.

Okay, but the article said the Greek Ambasadors provide the same service for free...... Granted paying $50.00 compared to 35K is not that much.

I do agree with you about the fact she could give better advice than advice on GC. It's not that we (GCers) are wrong, but since she is familiar with the Vanderbilt system she would be better.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Independent college admissions consultants---who Ms. Donovan seems to resemble more than your average, overloaded HS guidance counselors--do charge considerable fees. It just depends on what you want and what you're willing to do to get it.

/slight hijack/

From my knowledge of the paid college admissions consultants, they are charging for a service that, if the hs student had any motivation he / she could obtain the same info for free. It just takes a little work. Especially these days since it is so much easier to obtain information via the web.

When I graduated hs, you really had to make phone calls, visit the campus and hope your college of choice(s) would present at your hs college night. These days you can go to any school web site and find much of the info you need from the comfort of your own home.

/end slight hijack/

I just think it would be similar for joining a sorority. With so many sorority women in the community, I am sure you can find someone, or someone who knows someone who would be willing to advise the PNM for free.

I guess I am just hung up on the fact that there is a charge for a service that can not offer any assurances (presumably of getting a bid). I guess that is why it is $50.00 and not $500.00 or some such price.

Or, maybe Ms. Donovan is offering her services like a style consultant. Kinda like etiquette lessons.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by sigmadiva
Okay, but the article said the Greek Ambasadors provide the same service for free...... Granted paying $50.00 compared to 35K is not that much.

I do agree with you about the fact she could give better advice than advice on GC. It's not that we (GCers) are wrong, but since she is familiar with the Vanderbilt system she would be better.

But they don't. A PX is not going to tell you certain things. Your PX will not tell you not to tell KD that you're a triple XO legacy. Your PX will not tell you that it is better to say "I worked for a non-profit organization" than it is to say "I worked at Planned Parenthood." Your PX won't tell you that a J.Crew dress will or won't be just as acceptable as a Lilly. This woman will. I feel very qualified to give women advice on rush at Big 10 schools, but if I knew somebody going to Vandy and this service was available, I might suggest it. I don't know what it takes at Vandy, but I do know that it takes more than good grades and a nice personality.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by sigmadiva
/slight hijack/

From my knowledge of the paid college admissions consultants, they are charging for a service that, if the hs student had any motivation he / she could obtain the same info for free. It just takes a little work. Especially these days since it is so much easier to obtain information via the web.

When I graduated hs, you really had to make phone calls, visit the campus and hope your college of choice(s) would present at your hs college night. These days you can go to any school web site and find much of the info you need from the comfort of your own home.

/end slight hijack/

I just think it would be similar for joining a sorority. With so many sorority women in the community, I am sure you can find someone, or someone who knows someone who would be willing to advise the PNM for free.

I guess I am just hung up on the fact that there is a charge for a service that can not offer any assurances (presumably of getting a bid). I guess that is why it is $50.00 and not $500.00 or some such price.

Or, maybe Ms. Donovan is offering her services like a style consultant. Kinda like etiquette lessons.

There's a charge for law school applications. I gave the University of Wisconsin Law school $40 with no assurance that I got in. I didn't. I thought it was worth paying for anyway. Girls at Vanderbilt are paying a Recruitment Registration Fee of some amount without knowing if they'll get a bid. They think it it's worth it. People pay for services that aren't assured all the time.

[rocketgirl]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
There's a charge for law school applications. I gave the University of Wisconsin Law school $40 with no assurance that I got in. I didn't. I thought it was worth paying for anyway. Girls at Vanderbilt are paying a Recruitment Registration Fee of some amount without knowing if they'll get a bid. They think it it's worth it. People pay for services that aren't assured all the time.

So what about paying a tutor to help with a class? The tutor does not guarentee you will get an A on an exam, but they will help you to be better prepared going into that exam. I mean you can study for the LSAT, GRE, GMAT, physics, math, psych exam on your own or using free materials or free study session, but sometimes paying that extra money for a prep course or tutor is worth it. Neither option will guarentee anyting, but for some people, the confidence gained by feeling better prepared is worth the money. Maybe it gives the test taker more confidence so they do better.

Same thing for going into rush. Maybe the women who go to the paid advisor will feel more confident and more open and excel at rush. Maybe they won't. Either way, it doesn't hurt anyone and if it makes the girl more confident, then hey..it's her money!

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by rocketgirl
So what about paying a tutor to help with a class? The tutor does not guarentee you will get an A on an exam, but they will help you to be better prepared going into that exam. I mean you can study for the LSAT, GRE, GMAT, physics, math, psych exam on your own or using free materials or free study session, but sometimes paying that extra money for a prep course or tutor is worth it. Neither option will guarentee anyting, but for some people, the confidence gained by feeling better prepared is worth the money. Maybe it gives the test taker more confidence so they do better.

Same thing for going into rush. Maybe the women who go to the paid advisor will feel more confident and more open and excel at rush. Maybe they won't. Either way, it doesn't hurt anyone and if it makes the girl more confident, then hey..it's her money!

]

That's what I was saying...

[rocketgirl]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
]

That's what I was saying...

I know..I was just adding a different point

[IvySpice]

From my knowledge of the paid college admissions consultants, they are charging for a service that, if the hs student had any motivation he / she could obtain the same info for free. It just takes a little work. Especially these days since it is so much easier to obtain information via the web.

Well, that's true of chefs in restaurants. You could just do a little recipe research and spend a few hours in the kitchen and make the food yourself. And why go to a salon for a pedicure when with a little effort you could paint your own nails? Do you feel the same way about chefs and pedicurists that you do about these consultants?

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
There's a charge for law school applications. I gave the University of Wisconsin Law school $40 with no assurance that I got in. I didn't. I thought it was worth paying for anyway. Girls at Vanderbilt are paying a Recruitment Registration Fee of some amount without knowing if they'll get a bid. They think it it's worth it. People pay for services that aren't assured all the time.

Please go back and re-read my post. My point is that Ms. Donovan is charging for a service that is provided by the Panhellenic Council for free. My issue is why would someone pay for a service that is being provided for free of charge. Furthermore, I would think that the Greek Ambasadors would be able to give better advice on their system than a woman who has been removed from it for a while. Heck, I could market myself as a Membership Intake Process Counselor for NPHC sororities for my undergrad school, but I have been removed from my campus and chapter for a while. The only information that I would have about the other three NPHC sororities would either come from my own opinion, information from any public document or if I had an 'insider' giving me a scoop about her chapter, which is *highly* unlikely. The best person / people to ask would be those currently in the system. At least I would think so.

Also, at most Ms. Donovan can only really speak about her org. I don't know her affiliation, but lets say she is an ABC. How can she counsel (advise) for DEF, GH, PQR, ST and XYZ? She was not a member of all of those orgs, so her information about them I'm sure is limited.


Paying an application fee is one thing. That is a stipulation in order for your application to be processed and reviewed. Based on my knowledge of NPC application process, there is no stipulation to pay to seek the advice of a Recruitment Counselor in order to particiapte in the recruitment process. You sign up and go, and hopefully at the end of the process receive a bid. Whether the PNM paid for advice, or received any advice at all is not a requirement before she joins a sorority.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by IvySpice
Well, that's true of chefs in restaurants. You could just do a little recipe research and spend a few hours in the kitchen and make the food yourself. And why go to a salon for a pedicure when with a little effort you could paint your own nails? Do you feel the same way about chefs and pedicurists that you do about these consultants?

Well, I guess yes because I do know of people who do this.

Don't we (GLO members on GC) advise people who come on here and ask a bunch of questions about an org to do their own research at their own school? I mean, is it that hard? Oh, wait, for some it is.

That's all I'm saying. It really does not take much effort to 'google' a group, make a phone call to the greek life office, attend a 'meet the greeks', get to know greeks in your classes. All of this can be done for free. And, to tell you the truth, one of the best ways that I have seen people make it into their org of choice (NPHC, NPC, IFC, etc.) has been by the last method I mentioned. The PNM got to know the members of the org by being in the same class, involved in similar groups and activites on campus. By the time the next recruitment came around that person made it in. It is not a sure thing, but I've seen it work in alot of cases. All done for no money charged.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by sigmadiva
Please go back and re-read my post. My point is that Ms. Donovan is charging for a service that is provided by the Panhellenic Council for free. My issue is why would someone pay for a service that is being provided for free of charge. Furthermore, I would think that the Greek Ambasadors would be able to give better advice on their system than a woman who has been removed from it for a while. Heck, I could market myself as a Membership Intake Process Counselor for NPHC sororities for my undergrad school, but I have been removed from my campus and chapter for a while. The only information that I would have about the other three NPHC sororities would either come from my own opinion, information from any public document or if I had an 'insider' giving me a scoop about her chapter, which is *highly* unlikely. The best person / people to ask would be those currently in the system. At least I would think so.

Also, at most Ms. Donovan can only really speak about her org. I don't know her affiliation, but lets say she is an ABC. How can she counsel (advise) for DEF, GH, PQR, ST and XYZ? She was not a member of all of those orgs, so her information about them I'm sure is limited.


Paying an application fee is one thing. That is a stipulation in order for your application to be processed and reviewed. Based on my knowledge of NPC application process, there is no stipulation to pay to seek the advice of a Recruitment Counselor in order to particiapte in the recruitment process. You sign up and go, and hopefully at the end of the process receive a bid. Whether the PNM paid for advice, or received any advice at all is not a requirement before she joins a sorority.

Please go back and READ MY POST. I read yours. Ms. Donovan can say things the Greek Ambassadors cannot. She can say "BE sure and tell XYZ your dad is a doctor, they are very concerned about financial status." Greek Ambassadors could not say that.

The methods you are listing work well for NPHC orgs - but on a campus like Vanderbilt, you really need to go through recruitment as a freshman to be successful. You don't have time to get to know everyone first.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Please go back and READ MY POST. I read yours. Ms. Donovan can say things the Greek Ambassadors cannot. She can say "BE sure and tell XYZ your dad is a doctor, they are very concerned about financial status." Greek Ambassadors could not say that.

The methods you are listing work well for NPHC orgs - but on a campus like Vanderbilt, you really need to go through recruitment as a freshman to be successful. You don't have time to get to know everyone first.

Yes, but couldn't the PNM just ask someone familiar with the chapter? At one of my friend's high school, her senior year some women from different NPC sororities gave a presentation at her school. That was an opportunity for hs women who wanted to rush to get some info. Also, I remember from my freshman year of college, I went to 'Fish Camp', a week long orientation camp for incoming fresman and one of the counselors offered to talk to young women who wanted to rush.

And, if a chapter is that superficial why would you want to join it? I would think that at a school like Vanderbilt, money is really not an issue in terms of what your dad does to imply how much money he makes.

And, I would presume a rec letter is important. So a young woman would have to know someone from the org and/or the particular chapter to get a letter. Wouldn't the rec writer provide some inside info?

Yes, I'm still looking for the 'free' options.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
Please go back and READ MY POST. I read yours. Ms. Donovan can say things the Greek Ambassadors cannot. She can say "BE sure and tell XYZ your dad is a doctor, they are very concerned about financial status."

ETA: You proved my point about her counseling service. She can only tell you things like that, or like, XYZ likes tall athletic girls with red hair. In the end the PNM and the chapter have to make a sincere connection.

I think this is what causes frustration in the recruitment process beacuse the PNM hears stuff like this and the PNM thinks, 'Hey, my dad is a doctor, they have to give me a bid'. Then the PNM goes bidless and she comes on here wondering why she did not get a bid since she was told that XYZ picks women who's dad is a doctor. And we all know what a tangled mess those threads become.

[adpiucf]

Shoot, we should form a national consulting group. There are enough of us in the rush forum to get going!

GC Consulting, LLP?