Tradition of fraternities hosting parties can leave sororities in the clear

[33girl]

Originally posted by AGDee
Many fraternities have women at their recruitment functions to entice guys to join, which makes the implication that if you join that fraternity, you'll have hot women around all the time.

At many places, the women at rush parties has gone away with wet rush. Maybe the sweetheart will be there, but that's it. At any rate, brothers are not going to give a bid to a guy who spends the whole time chatting up the women. It would be the same way if there were men at sorority rush. Maybe there is the occasional guy who signs a bid for that reason but I doubt he makes it through pledging.

If fraternities just stop hosting parties, then sororities wouldn't rely on them. Everybody would go to bars where things are regulated with bouncers and bar tenders and the liability is greatly reduced because there are third party vendors taking care of everything.

In many states, you cannot even enter a bar until you are 21, even if you're not drinking. Plus, the money required to rent a bar for a private party is prohibitive for many groups - and the bars have no desire to cut off the rest of their clientele for a party of 100 people. Especially when the majority of them won't be drinking alcohol!

People who host private parties at their own homes choose to do so. I don't see how their greek affiliation would come up unless they have letters plastered all over.

Sororities and I think fraternities have been hearing the "if there are 2/3/5 XYZ members at an event, it is an XYZ function" for the last few years. I agree that it is garbage. Their Greek affiliation would "come up" because whether you're wearing letters or not, people know what GLO you're in!

We also are required to provide bus transportation to such events. Why aren't the greeks doing more of this?

Again, the expense can be prohibitive, and also some groups have rules against "out of town parties." If your college is in a dry town in the middle of nowhere, you can choose to violate the out of town party rule or the drinking in the fraternity house rule. You might as well violate the one that costs less money. The point I'm trying to make is that many of the risk management rules were made assuming that all chapters have an endless pit of money which is NOT the case.

There is something more going on with this generation though. Because, for all the alcohol that flowed pretty freely, people did not binge drink to the extent that they do now. The goal would be to get a slight buzz and maintain it all evening, not drink til you puke or pass out.

You just answered your own question.

And of course if sorority women didn't go to parties, the fraternity men would still have them...but let's face it, many women join at least partly for an enhanced social life. To shell out a good chunk of change and then be told "by the way, you can't go to fraternity parties where they serve alcohol" and your GDI roommate can - i.e. your Greek membership has closed a door, not opened it - is why a lot of the smart, freethinking women who would be such a boon to our chapters are avoiding sororities.

[UNLDelt]

Controlling alcohol on campus, finding solutions
Guest commentary

The University of Nebraska-Lincoln
The Daily Nebraskan
April 20, 2005


Two articles that kicked off the DN’s series addressing alcohol were, in my opinion, unbalanced and seemed to superficially address the issue.

What could have been a great forum to discuss the issues and challenges greek systems take on these days was watered down to the same old banter based on “Animal House,” a movie, and an attitude about greek life that I am confident to say, is just as much in the past for greeks as it is for everyone else.

Greek organizations have been evolving since their inception in 1776. The roles our organizations play in collegiate life have grown and changed many times in the past two centuries. We are now in a new stage of that evolution. What we offered students on campus in the 1980s and 1990s, a party environment (not the only aspect, but a large part), is no longer our primary role.

Today’s student is looking for more. Fraternities’ lower recruitment numbers are evidence of that. The chapters who cannot provide more than a social aspect to their members find themselves victims of “natural selection.” While chapters who expand, evolve and address other aspects of campus life consistently grow and prosper, and this is what we see happening to us today.

I would like to present an idea that is not often recognized by those who are looking for a place to easily place blame when it comes to this issue. I believe the greek system is, and always has been, a concentrated reflection of campus culture, not the driving force behind it.

Greeks are visible examples of the good aspects of college life: leadership development, campus and community involvement, academic success, etc. But we also can be visible examples of negative aspects, such as the abuse of alcohol. You can find these examples of both good and bad aspects everywhere on campus, not just on greek row.

But we provide the convenience of giving the problem greek letters for a name. We give it an address and an easy place for administrations, parents and lawyers to place blame and Band-Aids that “window dress” the problem, not solve it (our administration excluded, because of their progressive understanding that we cannot punish away this issue, thank you). We are not the source of the problem, but an example of the issue.

The article addressing liability as a deterrent seemed to only rehash past scars that today’s greek members must live with. And while there are no excuses for the actions of our predecessors, we must look at what current greeks are doing to learn from and prevent past mistakes.

My comments about the past of my own fraternity were to demonstrate how far we have come, not to demonstrate what we “got away with.” The article took the position that steps to address alcohol issues are mainly reactive. But, much can be said about the work greeks have done to be proactive in this area.

One example comes from my own fraternity, Delta Tau Delta. Since 1984, our fraternity has had programs in place to address this issue long before it became recognized as the pressing problem it is today. Delts Talking About Alcohol (DTAA) is a nationally recognized program that has done, for years, what great campus sponsored programs like NU Directions are doing today, and it’s worked.

It has acted as a template for other successful programs used at other colleges across the nation. We as a fraternity recognized the issues early, we were proactive and we continue to look for more solutions. Like many chapters, we strictly enforce a dry house and have developed programs to address related issues like drunken driving.

These are just a few examples of what greek organizations across the nation are doing to address issues that affect all students, not just greeks.

To clarify the comments made about sororities and their role in this issue, I would like to make it clear I did not intend to insult or offend. Rather, it was intended to extend an invitation to sororities to get involved in the real solutions.

It is no secret that the collegiate attitude toward alcohol does not discriminate based on gender. Men and women alike participate in the activities that comprise this issue. That means men and women, fraternities and sororities, must all be honest with ourselves about the roles we play both in the problem and in the solution.

Sororities, I hope you please acknowledge your members’ participation, and thereby your role, in these issues. And while your organizations have developed effective ways to shield their liability, none of us can shield ourselves from the duty we have to our greek system, campus, chapters, friends and the future of each.

Neither fraternities nor sororities alone hold the solution. The future and strength of our greek system, and of our campus at large, depends on all of us. We must initiate change, not become victims of it.

Matt Ellis
UNL ’04 Graduate
Delta Tau Delta Fraternity Alumnus

[DeltAlum]

Brother Ellis makes some excellent points that we have either touched on or discussed at some length before.

It is a Risk Management factor that many chapters don't even consider.

[luvtoscrap]

. Okay I really do not understand this:

Fraternity guys who are of legal age have a private party with no connection to the fraternity which serve alcohols off campus in their own residences to underage drinkers......if something goes wrong....individual fraternity guys are liable, the underage drinkers are liable, and the fraternity.

Now should I host a party at my home that is not affiliated with the Democratic Party and serve alcohol and there happens to be underage drinkers and something goes wrong (Oh trust me-there would be no underage drinkers at my home...but for arguments sake)......I would be liable, the underage drinkers would be liable, and since I am a registered member of the United Stated Democratic Party, so are the Democrats.


Don't worry this one-it will never hold up...There have already been several court cases that have determined that public schools cannot discipline students for behavior that has occurred off campus. Such cases include O'Brain vs Westlake Board of Education (This was a case about an upset student who developed a webpage devoted about the shortcomings of his band teacher), Klien vs Smith (a student gave the finger to a teacher in an off campus restaurant). My guessers on the subject is that while schools tend to include the off-campus clause in the Code of Conduct-unless the activity is part of a university organization sanction activity or off-campus housing unit-all they can do it refer it to the local authorities.

[Lady Pi Phi]

What I want to know is where did this rule "if x number of ABC's are at an event together, it automatically becomes an ABC event" come from?

I have never seen it written down anywhere, and if it's not written down anywhere, how can it possibly be enforced. And if it's not written down anywhere, why are we all so worried about it?

The "rule" is absolutely ridiculous. For example, if 5 chapter sisters wanted to go and see a movie and then go out for coffee, it would have to be approved by HQ, because it would be an ABC event. Are people going to seek HQ approval everytime they want to hang out with sisters? No! And is HQ going to want to deal with all the requests they get if chapters have to get approval from. Of course not! So why are we worried about this.

I think this "rule" has stemmed from the unwritten rule that we should always be on our best behaviour when we are out in public, whether we are wearing letters or not because we are representations of our orgs. I think this is a rule that should be followed whether you are an ABC or XYZ of GDI.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
What I want to know is where did this rule "if x number of ABC's are at an event together, it automatically becomes an ABC event" come from?

I have never seen it written down anywhere, and if it's not written down anywhere, how can it possibly be enforced. And if it's not written down anywhere, why are we all so worried about it?

I have actually seen this on a website, I think it was A Xi D's.

You can terminate a girl from your chapter for having a questionable reputation, and that isn't written down either...same concept. "Behavior unbecoming to the sorority" covers a multitude of sins. Same with "risk management."

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
What I want to know is where did this rule "if x number of ABC's are at an event together, it automatically becomes an ABC event" come from?

I have never seen it written down anywhere, and if it's not written down anywhere, how can it possibly be enforced. And if it's not written down anywhere, why are we all so worried about it?

The "rule" is absolutely ridiculous. For example, if 5 chapter sisters wanted to go and see a movie and then go out for coffee, it would have to be approved by HQ, because it would be an ABC event. Are people going to seek HQ approval everytime they want to hang out with sisters? No! And is HQ going to want to deal with all the requests they get if chapters have to get approval from. Of course not! So why are we worried about this.

I think this "rule" has stemmed from the unwritten rule that we should always be on our best behaviour when we are out in public, whether we are wearing letters or not because we are representations of our orgs. I think this is a rule that should be followed whether you are an ABC or XYZ of GDI.

Ultimately it's subjective for many GLOs but it's supposed to provide guidance to undergraduates.

-Rudey

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by 33girl
I have actually seen this on a website, I think it was A Xi D's.

You can terminate a girl from your chapter for having a questionable reputation, and that isn't written down either...same concept. "Behavior unbecoming to the sorority" covers a multitude of sins. Same with "risk management."

I guess what I am trying to say is we shouldn't be so concerned with whether such and such an event will be a ABC or XYZ event, but rather we should be concerned that we are always behaving in an appropriate manner.

[luvtoscrap]

There is a world of difference in holding a whole fraternity/sorority responsible by the university because a few individuals engaged in off-campus non chapter sanctioned event which involved the use of alcohol and a sorority that holds an individual member accountable for questionable behavior. Sororities and Fraternities are more then free to set their own membership criteria. Members are usually not asked to relinqish their pin because of one indiscretion unless it is really a big one or makes headlines. In my experience, Exc Boards and Advisors usually look at a long history of indiscretions and multiple interventions before pulling a sister's pin.

[luvtoscrap]

Lady Pi Phi

I could not agree with you more-we should always strive to uphold the values and ideals of our respective GLO's.

[Tom Earp]

Granted, if there are a group of Fraternity/Sorority Brothers/Sisters at ones Private Apt. when does it become a GLO Function.

It seems to be a way for some Schools to use this against us.

So, we are gathering at someones personell abode, then it is a Greek Function because We are of all the same G O? So invite an Independent? That will make it leagal?

So Why do We as Greeks party together, because We have a lot of things in common, DA!

[luvtoscrap]

smiles.... Tom

You know as well as I for for any chapter sponsored activity there is always a form to fill out and turned in prior to the event especially if it is off-campus. Hint Hint: Liability insurance

I think the university is more coming from the perspective of not out to to get the Greeks but more from proactively and overly protecting their own assest. Any time there is alcohol consumed there is a risk of injury and perhaps hazing. Universities have lost a case or two in court which has rendered the opinion that they are liable for hazing of new members of university approved Greek organizations. It doesn't matter if the incident takes place on or off campus. I can pull up the cases if anyone is interested.