Fraternities use step to mix races

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
This doesn't sit well with me. Maybe I'm just stingy with my "culture"...or just a product of FAMU's psychology department.

My albeit nosy question would be why specifically STEPPING? If the goal is to get both NPHC and HWGLOs orgs to get to know one another, why a stepshow as opposed to pairing up (NPHC & HWGLO) during Greek Week, sponsoring an activity together, or maybe both groups just simply getting together for lunch/dinner and fellowship with one another.

I definitely can see where SKEEphistAKAte is coming from. And maybe not so much from the standpoint of the origins of stepping, but the fact that we (blacks) and our culture is constantly viewed as some form of entertainment for others (i.e. dancing, singing, rapping, etc.) and that's it.

This should be an interesting discussion.

[deuika]

Pardon Me Ladies,

I can definitely understand where SKEEphistAKAte is coming from. Most people do associate the NPHC organizations with "step step side to side". I believe that fostering relationships between different groups is very important, within or outside of the Greek community; but at what cost? I know some people say it doesn't bother them that non-NPHC organizations step, but a few years from now when this practice has become rampant will the perception be different? I'm glad that they are encouraging unity, extremely happy that non-Blacks attended this event, but what stopped them from attending previous years? They aren't closed to the public, I go to at least 2 step shows every year.

If you think about it, sure this is a bit stretched, but think about it for one second, would someone see them stepping as a form of mockery? Even though the members who put on this event I'm sure have the upmost respect for themselves and their organizations, an outsider looking in could perceive this. Why couldn't the NPHC organizations step WITH them?

[starang21]

when i was a teaching assistant back at purdue, i swear i'd have my kids all ask me to do a step.



no..shut up and do your work.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by DIVA1177
I have beef with it when the WGLOs and LGLOs just go renegade with it and do it out of some sort of 'Oh that looks cool' and do not take the time to know the orgins of stepping.

Assuming that they do know the origins of stepping, would it make a substantive difference? If so, how?

Taking it a step further, is what NIC/NPC and LGLO orgs are doing with stepping any different than, say, some urban teen step teams forming their own step show?

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
I disagree with it. Yes, stepping is what they associate with us, so why not go beyond stepping and show them the other things that we are about?

Let's not be shortsighted and make snap judgments here: How do we know the NPHC orgs aren't doing just that IN ADDITION TO showing them how to step?

I just don't see why we have to gift wrap our culture and hand it to them on a silver platter in order to have them "understand" us better.
Because sometimes situations require exactly that. No more, no less.

If necessary, we can tell them why it is "significant to us" without teaching it to them or giving them (proverbial) "permission" to use it.
While I see where you are coming from, but if we are going to bridge the racial/cultural gaps in America, you have to give them the whole kit-n-kaboodle. And sometimes for one to truly understand something, they have to do it by and for themselves. Call it cultural empathy.

I figured that a time would come when white orgs would throw hand signs, step, do calls and all of that, it just peeves me that we feel the need to hand those things over to them just because they ask for it.
I think there was more to the origins of how this event transpired than simply some NPHC orgs handing over their culture to some NIC/NPC orgs just because "they asked for it". Again, let's not make hasty generalizations without knowing the facts behind it.

But, like I said, I'm a product of the FAMU School of Psychology, so I guess I am ultra-sensitive when it comes to these things.

When it comes to high-profile aspects of Black Greek life (stepping, calls, signs, flamboyant paraphernalia, etc.), you gotta take the bitter with the sweet. It's a new day where more of Black culture in general is beginning to become incorporated into mainstream America. And as time progresses, this will be more of the case.

Welcome to the 21st century, SkeephistAKAte.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Exactly what in the hell are you talking about?

"Let's not be shortsighted and make snap judgments here: How do we know the NPHC orgs aren't doing just that IN ADDITION TO showing them how to step?"
- Once again, if those "other things" that they are teaching them are so important, why is the article only focusing on the stepping? And I actually don't care WHAT "other" things they are teaching them, I don't appreciate them teaching them to step. Bottom Line.


"Because sometimes situations require exactly that. No more, no less"
Please explain to me what "situations" REQUIRE that we give them our "culture" on a silver platter. Expound upon that please.

"While I see where you are coming from, but if we are going to bridge the racial/cultural gaps in America, you have to give them the whole kit-n-kaboodle."
I repeat, what in the hell are you talking about? Do you really think that teaching some wanna-be's to step is going to "bridge the racial gap in America"?
RM, you are about to get me KRUNK up in here.


You know this really peeves me, black people are always complaining about people like Elvis Presley and his modern-day clone Justin Timberlake, and Eminem, people who supposedly "steal" and market our culture. Then when fraternities give our culture away, it is ok. So, am I to understand that as long as we teach it to them, it is OK? Because I am sure there JT has a black choreographer. Will somebody please explain to me why this is any different.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
I definitely can see where SKEEphistAKAte is coming from. And maybe not so much from the standpoint of the origins of stepping, but the fact that we (blacks) and our culture is constantly viewed as some form of entertainment for others (i.e. dancing, singing, rapping, etc.) and that's it.

....is that REALLY how our culture is being viewed, or is it that entertainment is primarily what we as black American's perpetuate to the world is all we're good at, at the expense of education, science, politics, etc?

Quite frankly, I am not so naive to believe that we (collectively speaking) as black Americans perpetuate our ability to excel in areas other that entertainment nearly as much as we would like to believe. While I am by no means throwing cold water on the numerous acheivements of black Americans, past and present, I am being annoyingly realistic when it comes to outside ethnic perceptions of us here and now.

Just something to think about...

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by Rain Man
It's a new day where more of Black culture in general is beginning to become incorporated into mainstream America. And as time progresses, this will be more of the case.

Welcome to the 21st century, SkeephistAKAte.

As I stated before, I knew that the day would come when White greeks would be using hand signs, calls, stepping etc. And once again, as I said before, I did not know that we would give them "permission" to do so. I figured they would just steal it like they usually do.
Also, just because this phenomenon is becoming common does not mean that it is right and that we should just go with the flow.

Welcome to the real world, Rain Man.

Someone made a valid point. I was thinking along the same lines, members of BGLO's often get upset with non-BGLO groups doing calls, having line names, stepping and all of that. I would like to know the difference in this scenario and the latter. Truthfully, I'd much rather see a black non-greek letter org. doing these things than some white greeks doing them.

[SKEEphistAKAte]

Originally posted by Rain Man
....is that REALLY how our culture is being viewed, or is it that entertainment is primarily what we as black American's perpetuate to the world is all we're good at, at the expense of education, science, politics, etc?

Choose a side and stick to it. Is that Really how we are being viewed...YES it is! That is why white greeks are constantly asking for us to "teach us how to do that neat dancing thing you all do. What is it stomping, or something like that?" They think it looks neat so they want to learn it.

Originally posted by Rain Man
....Quite frankly, I am not so naive to believe that we (collectively speaking) as black Americans perpetuate our ability to excel in areas other that entertainment nearly as much as we would like to believe. While I am by no means throwing cold water on the numerous acheivements of black Americans, past and present, I am being annoyingly realistic when it comes to outside ethnic perceptions of us here and now.

So, you go on to say how it is the Black person's fault for perpetuating this "Blacks as entertainers attitude". Thank you, Rain Man, that was my point exactly. All they see us as is people in pretty jackets, doing some neat dancing. So, when we get together to supposedly unify, that is the main thing we focus on? Come on. Do some service together, have some seminars on race relations, an open forum. Once again, I say what in the hell does handing them our culture on a silver platter have to do with uniting the races?
Give me a break.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
Exactly what in the hell are you talking about?

As a colledge educated woman, that should be self-explanatory.

"Let's not be shortsighted and make snap judgments here: How do we know the NPHC orgs aren't doing just that IN ADDITION TO showing them how to step?"
- Once again, if those "other things" that they are teaching them are so important, why is the article only focusing on the stepping?
Because that was the perogative and goal of the person who wrote the story. Personally, I take news[paper/letter] stories with a grain of salt. My motto for reading news articles comes from Denzel Washington in "Training Day": "[A newspaper] is 90% bull[jive]. But it's entertaining." I don't read newspapers or watch the TV newvery often for that very reason. Too many questions comes up in my mind that the article/news brief does not address. Most of my news (which is IMHO REAL news) comes from NPR and the BBC World Service. But I digress...


And I actually don't care WHAT "other" things they are teaching them, I don't appreciate them teaching them to step. Bottom Line.

Tough stuff. It will continue to happen, whether you like it or not, and probably, whether NPHC orgs help them or not, as is already the case with fraternities and sororities at Lee University in Cleveland, Tennessee.

"Because sometimes situations require exactly that. No more, no less"
Please explain to me what "situations" REQUIRE that we give them our "culture" on a silver platter. Expound upon that please.

Well, that depends on the very situation(s) at hand. It is not practical for me to give you a situation because there are too many out there already. So take a look at the ones in your personal world and pick one.

"While I see where you are coming from, but if we are going to bridge the racial/cultural gaps in America, you have to give them the whole kit-n-kaboodle."
I repeat, what in the hell are you talking about? Do you really think that teaching some wanna-be's to step is going to "bridge the racial gap in America"?

I defer to the response in the above paragraph

RM, you are about to get me KRUNK up in here.

Ira, I think we're gonna have another GC riot up in heah. Got that big box of 4 x 6 cards ready?



You betcha', Rain Man!

You know this really peeves me, black people are always complaining about people like Elvis Presley and his modern-day clone Justin Timberlake, and Eminem, people who supposedly "steal" and market our culture. Then when fraternities give our culture away, it is ok. So, am I to understand that as long as we teach it to them, it is OK? Because I am sure there JT has a black choreographer. Will somebody please explain to me why this is any different.

Because life is too short to be pissing and moaning about "The white man did this and the white man stole that." Share your wealth of knowledge and culture to the world and you will be blessed beyond measure.

[starang21]

this was in no way used as a tactic to teach white greeks about the bond, the love, and the subculture that life on the yard is. IMHO, this was strictly about showing them how to step. stepping is a very small part of what we're about, but whenever a white greek talked to me, all they wanted to know was how to step.

[decadence]

Don't many Latino fraternal organizations step?

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by SKEEphistAKAte
Choose a side and stick to it.
Uh, I was trying to find out which question was the most relevant.

Is that Really how we are being viewed...YES it is! That is why white greeks are constantly asking for us to "teach us how to do that neat dancing thing you all do. What is it stomping, or something like that?" They think it looks neat so they want to learn it. So, you go on to say how it is the Black person's fault for perpetuating this "Blacks as entertainers attitude". Thank you, Rain Man, that was my point exactly. All they see us as is people in pretty jackets, doing some neat dancing. So, when we get together to supposedly unify, that is the main thing we focus on? Come on. Do some service together, have some seminars on race relations, an open forum. Once again, I say what in the hell does handing them our culture on a silver platter have to do with uniting the races?
Give me a break.

OK, I think I see what you are saying. You are essentially saying that you don't like the thought of non-NPHC Greeks approaching NPHC orgs asking "inane" questions about why NPHC culture is so flamboyant. You would prefer such race-uniting techniques involving service and charity-oriented projects to show those orgs what the NPHC at heart is REALLY about. Fair enough.

BUT....

Why the need for such superficial aspects of NPHC culture such as flashy gear, calls, signs, and stepping? I mean, in all fairness, none of the founders ever stepped or incorporated any of the contemporary NPHC "cultural" aspects in their orgs. Heck, it didn't even become a phenomona (sp?) until roughly 25 years ago, and all nine orgs were (and still is) doing just fine without it.

So if you really mean what you say, I hereby challenge the NPHC orgs to systematically drop the stepping, loud 'nalia, signs, chants, and calls, and work alongside the NIC/NPC orgs and show them through service and charity-oriented projects how the NPHC orgs really roll and TCB. Once that is done, then and only then will I gladly and immediately retract my statement(s).

ETA: To use your very words: "Choose a side and stick to it".

[starang21]

Originally posted by Rain Man

Why the need for such superficial aspects of NPHC culture such as flashy gear, calls, signs, and stepping? I mean, in all fairness, none of the founders ever stepped or incorporated any of the contemporary NPHC "cultural" aspects in their orgs. Heck, it didn't even become a phenomona (sp?) until roughly 25 years ago, and all nine orgs were (and still is) doing just fine without it.

So if you really mean what you say, I hereby challenge the NPHC orgs to systematically drop the stepping, loud 'nalia, signs, chants, and calls, and work alongside the NIC/NPC orgs and show them through service and charity-oriented projects how the NPHC orgs really roll and TCB. Once that is done, then and only then will I gladly and immediately retract my statement(s).

ETA: To use your very words: "Choose a side and stick to it".

are you serious about asking us to give up that stuff?

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by starang21
are you serious about asking us to give up that stuff?

To the extent that NPHC folk is concerned about the outside world's perception of them and is not willing to share and educate them about their culture, I say....

HECK, YEAH! Serious as a heart attack and a double stroke.

Does NPHC orgs want to show the world their glitter and fluff, or their sho' 'nuff, hardcore, down-to-the-nitty-gritty, SUBSTANCE! Let's face it, the first thing that comes to mind when the term black fraternities and sororities come up is stepping, signs, colors, and calls. If this is not the image NPHC orgs want to portray to the world, then drop it alltogether, and go back to the basics. Heck, by doing that, you'll probably have a Black Greek Renaissance here in America. And on the centennial anniversaries of Black Greek life, no less! Perfect!

BTW, don't do it for me. Do it for those who always saw and thought of you as nothing more than glorified step teams. You'll shock the heck outta them. You'll probably shock the heck outta yourselves too with the renewed perceptions of you.