African American vs Black vs African American

[sphinxpoet]

The Term Black vs. African American all goes to how do you perceive things. If you feel the term is offensive because of the negative connotations that come with being called Black then you have a problem with it. If you have a problem with African American it is because you have a problem with being classified as either African or American. There in lies the problem with that discussion. How are you defining race? What are its characteristics to you? This discussion can become quite confusing because are Latino's and Italians black, white or other.(Remember Italians have some African descent in them though not a strong as Latinos) does your race only limit to the country you are in(i.e. the Brazilians even though many are very "dark-skinned" consider themselves whites). Once one defines these issues then a better understanding of how and why people define themselves the way the do. The Problem with people of African Descent in America is that they suffer from what W.E.B. Dubois classified as "The double veil of consciousness" We at times find us trying to be another kind of person and yet fitting in to what we have defined as comfortable parameters(i.e. being black trying to fit in a "white" society). These problems will continue to haunt us until then.

Peace and Blessings
The SPhinxpoet

[Conskeeted7]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the premise of the previous post at all. I believe that Blacks should consider themselves Americans. Who we are as a culture is significantly impacted by the fact that we are Black in America. Without that, none of us would be who we are. Of course there have been limitations because of racism. However, I don't think it goes deep enough to say that we are not American. The very fact that we deal with racism as a group, know how to respond, relate to it and identify with each other because of it signifies that we are a culture within this country: Black Americans. I believe that if we start to believe that we are not part of the country and we focus our energy on exclusion, we will never get anywhere as a people living within this country. Of course there is a great benefit to researching our history and knowing the great legacies that we come from. I think that can be done while acknowledging that we are American as well.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Conskeeted7

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the premise of the previous post at all. I believe that Blacks should consider themselves Americans. Who we are as a culture is significantly impacted by the fact that we are Black in America. Without that, none of us would be who we are. Of course there have been limitations because of racism. However, I don't think it goes deep enough to say that we are not American. The very fact that we deal with racism as a group, know how to respond, relate to it and identify with each other because of it signifies that we are a culture within this country: Black Americans. I believe that if we start to believe that we are not part of the country and we focus our energy on exclusion, we will never get anywhere as a people living within this country. Of course there is a great benefit to researching our history and knowing the great legacies that we come from. I think that can be done while acknowledging that we are American as well.

without being too wordy, i agree. if i was referred to as "African-American," i wouldnt mind, but i prefer "Black." i mean, i didnt choose or create either title, but I (along with my black peers, ancestors and future generations) do have a part in choosing and creating what being Black means in America. never mind that sometimes i may not like or agree with what exactly being Black is or has come to mean, but it's my culture to call mine.

sure we all have African roots, but my experience has more to do with being American than being African. that DOESN'T mean that i dont identify at all with African ancestry, but being that 1. ive never been to Africa, 2. don't know any Africans from Africa (well personally, as in ones i associate with) 3. have lived my whole life in the American/black experience, i think its a misnomer to say otherwise.

and when we say "African-American," surely that doesnt encompass each of the 54 nations that comprise the great continent. no one ive ever met from a North African country every identified with being "African" or "African-American," but by their nationality (Egyptian, Ethiopian). why would it be any more incorrect to say "hey, i'm black! and dare i say american?!"

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by tld221

without being too wordy, i agree. if i was referred to as "African-American," i wouldnt mind, but i prefer "Black." i mean, i didnt choose or create either title, but I (along with my black peers, ancestors and future generations) do have a part in choosing and creating what being Black means in America. never mind that sometimes i may not like or agree with what exactly being Black is or has come to mean, but it's my culture to call mine.

sure we all have African roots, but my experience has more to do with being American than being African. that DOESN'T mean that i dont identify at all with African ancestry, but being that 1. ive never been to Africa, 2. don't know any Africans from Africa (well personally, as in ones i associate with) 3. have lived my whole life in the American/black experience, i think its a misnomer to say otherwise.

and when we say "African-American," surely that doesnt encompass each of the 54 nations that comprise the great continent. no one ive ever met from a North African country every identified with being "African" or "African-American," but by their nationality (Egyptian, Ethiopian). why would it be any more incorrect to say "hey, i'm black! and dare i say american?!"

Funny you mention the Egyptian/Ethiopian thing. One of my classmates was born in Egypt and she does not identify as African or Black. In fact, if she had not informed me where she was from, I would not have known because she is lightly tanned NOT brown. Her last name (married) is Arabic so I would assume that she is Arab but she is not; her family is Coptic Christian.

Another reason why I disagree with the name African-American. The above demonstrates a situation where a person CLEARLY fits the definition of African-American but is not and has no reason to identify as such.

[Munchkin03]

Also, there are the people who don't come from Africa who consider themselves "Black" in terms of culture (ie, some Indians from Trinidad or Guyana).

Plus, aren't White South Africans who emigrate here technically "African-American"?

[nikki25]

I think that identity is important. Whether you prefer to call yourself African-American or Black doesn't matter so much as your understanding of your history. It's critical that the conversation not move so much into a discussion of labels, but action.

What does being Black or African-American compel you to do? I think that's really most important. You must understand that you have been placed here as part of a larger reason and purpose. Generations past have prayed for you to be a man/woman of excellence and power. Your ancestors wanted you to have access...to resources, etc. And now that you are able to garner them and keep them, what are you doing? How to do you pay homage to those before you? What are you doing?

See, I think that our ancestors didn't place a huge focus on language and labels. They just wanted to be included. So, I think it's time to take this a step further than asking of our respective TITLE preferences, but what are you doing with the blessings you've been given? Now that you are called a MAN or WOMAN and recognized for your abilities...what are you doing?

Let's be mindful that it's not about your title, its not about your present circumstance...but what you are doing to obtain all that is for you that matters. So, what are you doing?

------------------
I will bless the Lord at ALL times His praise shall continually be in my mouth. (Psalms 34:1, KJV)



[This message has been edited by nikki25 (edited December 19, 2000).]

[prettygyrl]

Personally, I do not like the term African-American. I supposed if I have to be labeled as anything I prefer Black. Black American if it suits some. African American to me would be someone that came from Africa an were made into an American citizen. Although I will never deny my root connection to Africa, the fact remains that I am not really "Afican" I mean all nationalities can trace their roots out of America because everyone(with the exception of the Indians) migrated to this country. I was born here I do not know anyone from Afica nor have I been.So what constitutes me as "African". I mean I know many moons ago my ancestors were from there but, I was not. I mean since my mom is originally from the South, am I really southern although I have always lived up North? I agree with Ania (by the way pretty name) on what a African-American person is.

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by jccLove:
Hello Members and fellow SF's, I believe that this topic has never been discussed before, so I apologize in advanced if it has already been brought up. My sister's and I were talking the other day about race and nationality and where we as black people in America fit in. As I thought about the different terms we use to identify ourselves I began to wonder are they really representative of us as a people. What do we gain by using the term African American and why does it seem that using the term black is all of a sudden taboo? I have extremely strong feelings about this subject and I just wanted to know how other people felt as well.

Man is identified by the land from which his forefathers come from. If this is true, anyone living in the Americas with a drop of black blood in their vains is of African origin. If they themselves were born here, the most accurate way to classify them is "African-American". When you ask someone you went to school with whose name is Napoli, Rizzi,or Barzini what their nationality is, they wont say American white; they'll say I'm Italian(and most times leave off the American). By doing so, they show pride in the origin of their family. Most persons that weren't born in America do so. I admit to the fact that most "black" people were born stateside(here in America), but our families did not originate here; and THERE IS NO LAND CALLED BLACK. Therefore, we should classify ourselves as African-American. I think it's f@#$% up that every other kind of people here demand respect for the origin of their family-and make issue of it-but we don't. We want to run from being of African decent anyway we can-our hairstyles, our vernacular and intonation, and any other way we can. Only our music and clothes now tie us together; and we even subjudge ourselves! We can try to run from it all we want; but to the people that really matter here, we're still a bunch of n gas. So why not take pride in ourselves!!!!

[AKAtude]

When you ask someone you went to school with whose name is Napoli, Rizzi,or Barzini what their nationality is, they wont say American white; they'll say I'm Italian

Yes, when you ask them, but no one has ever had to ask me if I have African roots! I'm already pre-classified as having African ancestory because of the color of my skin.
There are various nationalities within European society to choose from (Italian, German, French, Welch, Scottish, etc.) I'm not trying to be rude or funny, but I can't tell which nationality white people fall into unless I ask or they tell me. They check the box that says "WHITE" just like we check the box that says "BLACK".

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by AKAtude:
Yes, when you ask them, but no one has ever had to ask me if I have African roots! I'm already pre-classified as having African ancestory because of the color of my skin.
There are various nationalities within European society to choose from (Italian, German, French, Welch, Scottish, etc.) I'm not trying to be rude or funny, but I can't tell which nationality white people fall into unless I ask or they tell me. They check the box that says "WHITE" just like we check the box that says "BLACK".

In attempts to be "Politically Correct", most places of employment and govt agencies now label the boxes "African-American"; and thank God they do so. Most of us don't know why we should call ourselves such. Being members of Greek-Lettered organizations(and thus leaders of our people), we especially should demonstrate pride in the origin of our people, and how we classify ourselves.

I started a thread addressing this issue some time ago on the Alpha line. I acknowledged the fact that most "black" people here are really bi-racial or multi-racial. My father was 1/4 Seminole, and my mother is African-American. I am proud of BOTH heritages. I refuse, unlike so many other people in this country, to deny my African ancestry and just simply claim to be Seminole; doing so would leave me half-defined. I am proud of both, but will acknowledge the one most people see when they see me;and that is the African-American part of me. Like Peter Tosh said: No matter where you come from; just as long as you're a black man, YOU'RE AN AFRICAN!!!

[AKA2D '91]

In the END, does it really matter?
We ALL are of some descent. I am sure that most of us are not 100% Black, African American, Colored, Negro, or whatever!
Why make a BIG deal over it? As long as you know who you are and are comfortable with YOU! Dayum what someone else thinks or calls us! Just call me by my name...

BTW, I check the OTHER box.

[mccoyred]

Your (and others') reasons are precisely why I believe we should identify ourselves as Black and not African-American:

1) many Black people in this country are not American;
2) most Black people in this country are multi-racial or multi-ethnic;
3) we should identify with others in the Diaspora around the world who share our African ancestry and hence our struggles.

Also as a previous poster indicated, there are a number of groups around the world who 'look Black' (ie Hindu Indians, Arabs,etc) but do not identify with our struggles. These people are not included in my definition!

So you see, the same reasons why you insist we should call ourselves African-American are precisely why I feel we should not.

BTW, the name 'Africa' is a European appellation that we can reject for a number of reasons. I'm doing some additional research to back up some thoughts I have on that subject so I'll get back to that subject later.

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
In attempts to be "Politically Correct", most places of employment and govt agencies now label the boxes "African-American"; and thank God they do so. Most of us don't know why we should call ourselves such. Being members of Greek-Lettered organizations(and thus leaders of our people), we especially should demonstrate pride in the origin of our people, and how we classify ourselves.

I started a thread addressing this issue some time ago on the Alpha line. I acknowledged the fact that most "black" people here are really bi-racial or multi-racial. My father was 1/4 Seminole, and my mother is African-American. I am proud of BOTH heritages. I refuse, unlike so many other people in this country, to deny my African ancestry and just simply claim to be Seminole; doing so would leave me half-defined. I am proud of both, but will acknowledge the one most people see when they see me;and that is the African-American part of me. Like Peter Tosh said: No matter where you come from; just as long as you're a black man, YOU'RE AN AFRICAN!!!

------------------
MCCOYRED

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by mccoyred:
Your (and others') reasons are precisely why I believe we should identify ourselves as Black and not African-American:

1) many Black people in this country are not American;
2) most Black people in this country are multi-racial or multi-ethnic;
3) we should identify with others in the Diaspora around the world who share our African ancestry and hence our struggles.

Also as a previous poster indicated, there are a number of groups around the world who 'look Black' (ie Hindu Indians, Arabs,etc) but do not identify with our struggles. These people are not included in my definition!

So you see, the same reasons why you insist we should call ourselves African-American are precisely why I feel we should not.

BTW, the name 'Africa' is a European appellation that we can reject for a number of reasons. I'm doing some additional research to back up some thoughts I have on that subject so I'll get back to that subject later.

I can't wait to see your proof of your statement about Africa being a european appellation.

[AKAtude]

AKA2D and Mccoyred,
I agree with you.

Original Ape,
The last form I filled out, I recall checking "Black" and that was last week. No one is running from our heritage. Who decided it was politically correct to refer to us an African-American anyway? No one asked me my opinion.

Obviously, everyone has an opinion and to each his own. I will continue to use black or African-American whenever I want and if I choose to do so because it is my choice.

[PositivelyAKA]

Originally posted by Lady of Interest:
I agree this can be a touchy issue for some people. I have picked up a lot of slack because I refer to myself as West Indian. I was born and raised in the islands. According to the American society once your skin is a certain color you are considered African American(black). I agree with Talaxe when she stated that not all blacks are African American. I come from a family of very diverse backgrounds and it seems to me that people are always trying to put us into categories. We are all human so, why should it really matter?

exactly, why does it matter? well because certain people still want to be discriminatory, they do not want to see people as people, because it gives them no leverage to hate. simply put some people are just evil, . and i'm sick of everybody who has a drop of black blood being throw into a category that they do not necessarily desire to be in (ie. Tiger Woods) forget Tiger Woods let him get in where he fits in, when the day is done people will see him how they want to see him regardless of how he sees his self, which i am sure he is already learning. if you are mixed then you are mixed, "say it loud" if you are half this and half that "say it loud" why deny any part of who you are because someone else who is very shallow and ignorant wants to define you for their own hateful purposes. WE need to stop letting others define who we are as a people, because this forced categorizing just breeds division among blacks and those who have some black in them but do not wish to be identified as such. why should they, it certainly is not to their benefit to be black in this country, so if they don't want to be identified as black we should let them have that choice. as for me i am black, both my parents are black, both my grandparents are black, that's good enough for me, also no one in my family is from Africa or has ever been to Africa. but if someone refers to me as African American i don't get upset because some of my ancestors were definitely from that great continent, so its all good

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited December 20, 2000).]