Letters

[aephi alum]

In my local, each pledge class got letters at initiation. We were allowed to wear the letters while pledging, but we got our "official" letter shirts, in our sorority colors, at initiation.

Like my sister AEPhiSierra said, AEPhi does not permit anyone but initiated sisters to wear letters. Often, big sisters would present their littles with their first letters right after initiation. It's not so much that new members have to "earn their letters" - more that when they are initiated and learn the meaning of the letters they can now wear, it's that much more meaningful. In the meantime, we give them plenty of bid day and event shirts (with the letters spelled out) so they can represent the sorority they're joining.

[cntryZTA5]

We're allowed to wear letters when we are new members. However, many choose not to. Often, big sis' give their lil sis' letters for an initiation gift. The only thing that new members are not allowed to wear is the crest.

[MeLikey]

We couldn't wear billboard letters until initiation... which is when you get your gifts from your big/family, which includes a set or 2 of billboard letters... but our bid day shirts have had the screen printed letters on them.

[UT PhiSig]

our pledges cant wear letters till they get initiated as well, its something that in my opinion needs to be earned.

[alpharhomega]

When I pledged (and even with the new pledges coming in), we got to wear actual letters on Fridays, while the sisters wore letters on Mondays. But we weren't allowed to own our own set of letters until we became sisters, nor could we wear them on any day other than Friday. On our letter days, we borrowed letters from people in our family tree. That way, you get to wear letters, but you can also be excited about receiving your own from your big after sisterization. We also got lavaliers, etc, after sisterization. And during pledging, our bigs would give us random gifts with Alpha Rho Omega written on them, but when it came to letters, we were separate but equal, I guess.

I think that the extent to what hazing is defined these days is completely ridiculous. Witholding letters from pledges isn't hazing- they're not sisters, so they shouldn't be allowed to own a set of letters. It has nothing to do with how they represent the sisterhood or the fact they're on a "trial basis" as someone said. The fact of the matter is they are not sisters. They associate with you, yes, but so do many other people (ie: your organization's independent friends). If you're not a sister, you don't get letters. Period.

[OUlioness01]

Originally posted by alpharhomega


I think that the extent to what hazing is defined these days is completely ridiculous. Witholding letters from pledges isn't hazing- they're not sisters, so they shouldn't be allowed to own a set of letters. It has nothing to do with how they represent the sisterhood or the fact they're on a "trial basis" as someone said. The fact of the matter is they are not sisters. They associate with you, yes, but so do many other people (ie: your organization's independent friends). If you're not a sister, you don't get letters. Period.

whoa...i wasn't going to post in this topic because i completely disagree with what a lot of you are saying...but this just made me need to post. if you have extended a bid to a woman she IS YOUR SISTER (using female 'cause i'm a sorority member but IMO it applies to everyone). she is a member of your org, if only provisional and deserves to be treated as such. why should she want to be initiated if you don't consider her to be a sister until that time? what is she while she is in her provisional member period? someone you can just cast aside? they come to meetings, they come to required events, they particiapte in mixers, they are often more involved (from what i've seen on my own campus) than sisters who have been initiated for a while. they deserve to be treated with equal respect, and if that means wearing letters then i am all for it.

okay, i'm climbing off my soapbox now

[opaldragon]

In my chapter, the general rule is that shirts with the words spelled out or screenprinted shirts that happen to have the Greek characters on it, i.e. bid day shirts, aren't an issue. However, the actual stitched block letters are reserved for post-initiation wearing.

[Betarulz!]

Originally posted by AlphaPhiBubbles

In my personal experience we have had new members who did extremely embarassing (and I don't mean like wearing white after labor day) things, but since everyone knew they were a new member, it didn't represent our chapter necesarily because the women were not initiated. It's a trial period for a reason.

You're confusing damaging with embarassing. If a pledge in my chapter was to be found guilty of using a date rape drug, that would reflect incredbily badly on my chapter no matter how fast we kicked them out. If a new member of Alpha Phi in your chapter were to fall off the roof of your chapter house, your chapter would be in legal trouble, and it could lead to the taking of your charter.

Granted the pledge period is a chance to see the potential these students have in becoming members of your org, but I have to again say that it matters more on whether they have earned the privilage of knowing your principles than it does on being able to wear your letters.



Would your pledge experience really have been that much different if you had been able to wear letters?

[Katey Alpha Gam]

OK with a lot of what you guys are saying about ppl being sisters once they accept their bid, then why even have a new member period? Seeing as it's good enough that you liked them after knowing them for like 5 hours TOPS usually and they like your chapter enough to accept a bid after knowing it for like 5 hours; then I guess instead of taking the time to get to know the girl who may become a permanent representative of your org and for that girl to get to know you, then you should just initiate them right away. If they are sisters then they should be allowed to know all the ritual stuff, wear the letters, vote on issues, take an office, wear your badge, etc... like the 2nd day you know them!! Thats junk! I dunno about your chapters but we have had some characters who have accepted a bid that I really didn't want anyone to know was a new member of ours b/c they weren't a good representative of AGD. Do I want someone like that walking around my campus, wearing letters of my organization, representing themselves as a member, when they can't even represent themselves appropriately? Heck no! We have enough problems at times with our initiateds not acting right. Not to mention that I, and I hope all my other sisters, take the meanings of our letters very seriously, and if you don't know what they mean, you have no right to wear them. I was allowed to wear letters as a pledge, but I was also one of the biggest supporters of changing the rule. If I had it to do over again, I would wait to wear those letters because I wouldn't want to represent something I had really no knowledge of. I'm usually very politically correct, but I think this PC stuff about new members is obnoxious!! As long as you aren't hurting them physically, mentally or emotionally; then your chapter should have the right to do what you feel is right about whether or not you feel they are members. I feel they are affiliated, but not a member. Kinda like an auxiliary member. And I am not about to feel comfortable about a girl that I simply know "seems really sweet" representing my chapter when for all I know she is wearing those letters while humping a chain of guys after class or selling crack out of her car! Would you trust a new member with your wallet or your car? Then why would you trust her to wear something that should be nearly as dear to you?

[sueali]

We changed our rule to not giving letters out to new members specifically because we had new members who were not getting initiated wearing them after they had depledged. While a chapter can control what a member does in her letters they can't control what some random person who only pledged like 5 days. I received my letters before I was intitiated but looking back on it I did not give my letters the respect they deserved because there was no meaning behind them, now every time I put on my letters I remember at all times what they mean and stand for. Our new members are also not allowed to wear our crest. I have a question for the chapters who consider it hazing to not give out letters but find it ok not to let new members wear the crest. I don't mean any disrespect but how is it different. The new members are not allowed to wear something a intiated sister can, it's the same as not letting them wear letters.

[kappaloo]

Re: Are NM sisters? Yes they are. They don't know everything about fraternity yet, but as soon as you pin then, I say they're your sister. You're going to protect and support them as you would a sister. We have a NM period to allow the NM to learn about the organization. But, really, decision on whether to allow a women into the organization is done before she gets a bid, not after. I don't know about your organization, but it's really hard to force a NM to depledge where I am.

Re: Should NM wear letters? Hazing or not, not allowing NM to wear letters is silly IMHO. I mean, she's walking around wearing your NM pin, which often she doesn't know the true meaning of. She's representing your organization already. What's the deal with letters? If it's because she doesn't know the meaning of them - let's start reconsidering our NM pins....

Re: What if they depledge and own letters? Yes, those who depledge COULD still wear letters around? But really - how are you going to ensure that a NM never gets letters? Anyone can walk onto buykappa.com and buy a Kappa t-shirt. It's not like our badge or NM pin which must be ordered through HQ. NM can get letters, and if they depledge they could still wear them. Denying NM of the "right" of wearing letters doesn't stop this.

However, I'll note that no chapter should ever be forced to buy all their NM letters. Mine doesn't. We make our first set the night before initiation at the initiation sleep over. It's fun. However, if a NM was to buy letters before initiation - there would be no issue in them wearing them.

The travelling consultant put it best when she was here and this whole issue came up (some people in my chapter were really anti-NM-letters) she said: "What are you going to do if a NM wears letters? Kick her out? Isn't Kappa about more than t-shirts and letters?"

[AchtungBaby80]

My chapter allowed new members to wear letters, and gave us our first letter shirts on Bid Day because the "real" Bid Day shirts hadn't come in or something. Anyway, for ever pledge class after that we've given out Bid Day shirts instead of letters, but new members can wear them if they want.

[Not a Mezzo]

if you have extended a bid to a woman she IS YOUR SISTER

I agree with you completely. On Bid Day, we were given a set of chapter letters to wear. We were encouraged to wear them every Wednesday, just like initiated sisters, and to dress to pin, with our formal pledge pin, on Thursdays, just like initiated sisters. As our wonderful chapter advisor says, "Why WOULDN'T you want your beautiful new members wearing your letters?"

The new member period is just that: a time when you are new and learning the basic facts and functions of your new sisterhood. They don't call it a "half-way member period" or a "try before you buy period." If someone decides it's not really for them, they're free to de-pledge, but until that time, they have as much right to wear letters as a girl who's gone through initiation. In some cases, more, as some initiated sisters might not have the best reputation or represent their chapters in the best light, yet are still allowed to wear letters, and don't have to "earn the right."

There are two sides to every issue, and some of the reasons against new members wearing letters are actually rather valid. However, my own personal opinion is that it should be an accepted practice. Thank you, and good night.

[erica812]

At my college, Bid Day was on Saturday. To classes on Monday, all new members from all the sororities wore letter sweatshirts (our rush was in the winter) with their "pledge pins" and ribbons. It was fun to look around to see who went to which sisterhood. Very festive! These new members clearly took a lot of pride in their letters. Once the meaning is revealed I think the respect is not MORE, it's just at a DEEPER level.

Erica

[AXPGoBot]

Alright, this seems to be a heated topic, but I have to speak up. No offense, but some of these opinions are seem a bit ridiculous to me. First off, a note on hazing, cuz that seems to be a strong argument against withholding letters from a new member. If you look at the definition of hazing (as far as it relates to greek organizations at least), it cites some pretty specific examples but goes on to be quite vague. It basically includes ANYTHING that a new member does not want to have to do for any reason. So, if I don't feel like taking a test in my Heat Transfer class, that would be hazing if I was "pledging" engineering (which I feel like I am doing some days...) The point is, if some Nationals and most administrators had it their way, new member programs would consist of Greeks handing out their letters to anyone who shows up to the house, regardless of what the organization's thoughts on them are (I mean, EVERYONE deserves a chance, right?), you'd sit around eating pizza and talking about your feelings and politely asking that the new members learn as much as they can about your organization. After say two weeks or so, they get initiated under your Ritual. And now, they may not even be able to remember the date your chapter was founded or the history of your National but they get to know the meaning of your letters and any other secrets you might have.
To me, my letters mean so much to me, that they're NOT for everybody. Does everybody deserve a chance? YES! Should they be handed letters just for showing interest? No. I'm a firm believer that you should EARN your letters, it makes them so much more special, and you can love them all the more. It's like this: if your parents buy you a car when you turn 17 (or 16 for states other than NJ :-P ) you probably won't treat it was as much respect or care as if you had to work for two years to afford it. Just like a car it doesn't matter what your letters are, or which are more attractive or popular in the eyes of your campus, it only matters what's the best "car" for you, and that you appreicate it. A good new member program is meant to teach you respect for your letters, so that when you EARN them, not get HANDED them, you can appreciate it more and know something that those who simply sat around and got some shirts thrown at them can never appreciate. How can that mean something if you just get them like that? But if you work for them, if you slowly over the period of a month or so go over the history and ideals of your organiztion, if you proudly strut around in your letters, teaching your Postulants (yes, at AXP, we call them Postulants, since "pledge" denotes hazing) the same pride, it will mean so much. And on that night when they are initaited under your Ritual, they can truly appreciate the solemness (is that a word?) and importance of that special ceremony. There has to be some build up, some anticipation. You wouldn't give your kids their Christmas presents in October would you? If you did, Christmas wouldn't be all that special.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should haze your NM, that's just wrong too. But paddling them or locking them in a room for 24 hours or making them swallow goldfish is hazing, asking them to wait to wear letters until they've earned them, asking them to wait to share in such a special priveledge, that's not hazing.
Personally, when I pledged, my fraternity was on the edge of dying, so they took it really easy on us. Honestly, I didn't feel like I earned my letters, so I try still to make up for it by doing all I can for them. Not everyone feels this way however. A NM period is a way to see who is right for your organization. We've made mistakes in the past, and people have dropped our program or even were asked to leave. I shudder to think what our organization would be like now if they had become Brothers. Also, even years after initation, we've still found we made mistakes, as people committed serious offenses against the organization or individual Brothers, or just up and left (another de-Brotherment offense if our National's eyes). I've realized taht not only do you have to earn the right to wear your letters and represent people all around the country who have the same, but also you need to earn the right to keep them. By working hard and being dedicated, you can do this. By handing a NM his or her letters right away, odds are they won't take them as seriously, despite what those of you who will be flaming back at me are going to say. It may have worked for you, just like it may have worked for me, but it won't for the majority of people.

But anyways, to answer the question:
Our Bigs give out letters on the last night of pledging, which is usually a few days or a week before initaition. Although if they chose, they can wear ALPHA CHI RHO spelled out, since this is not under the technical definition of "letters."

Sorry for the long post, but I had to get that off my chest. Please rememeber that I have a right to my opinion just as you do to yours.