censoring shirts?

[James]

Well, someone can always send an offensive shirt design to a national without passing it into the rule book.

For the reasons I have already mentioned it doesn't sound like a good idea to pass a rule that will result in girls in the NPC scrutinizing other chapters shirts to see if any of them need to be sent to the chapters' national as an example.

ITs the same problem of universal standards, and universal application. As well as what Fire1977 is saying: its really not something that Panhell should be doing.

On a more exasperated note: Are they telling us that a discussion of how to promote Greek Image on campus came up and the best they could do was think about trying to dictate what shows up on a party shirt?

And as Achtungbaby80 implied, its going to come down to who is the most uptight or has a grudge when it comes to enforcement.

[KappaKittyCat]

You've got a point, James. I guess I was just thinking that we shouldn't be putting anything on rush shirts that isn't ladylike in the first place. I can't think of any design I've ever seen at my school that I've found questionable. However, at schools with a big rivalry, it could turn ugly. Perhaps it would be a better idea just to leave the rule out and let each HQ handle things on its own.

[SPONGEBOB318]

Hello everyone!

I know in Florida International University both PC and IFC have rules related to what your trying to pass. In IFC we had it becuase one fraternity wanted to wear an offensive shirt for Rush Week, and since the rule change, we havent had any problems

[UCFPhiDelt]

Freedom of Speech... I am not sure these rules would hold against a legal challenge. If IFC said this to me, it would prob. be time to get a legal opinion ASAP.

[momoftwo]

It's interesting to see the Greek community go in this direction, which there seems to be a fair amount of questionable t-shirt slogans at the mall.

When shopping at Abercrombie and Fitch or American Eagle, my kids knew they have to run the t-shirt slogans by me before the buy them. While some of the slogans were clever,
there was no way my high school daughter was going to wear t-shirts with sexual references! (Same rules apply to my son, but it seems like we don't struggle with it as much.)

I guess I'm done being my daughter's wardrobe police, although I still won't pay for anything that would make her look "cheap".

[AOII_Luv]

In our chapter, any and all shirt ideas have to be approved by our LC (Leaders Council). There have been times when a shirt idea was denied and it caused some trouble cause feelings were hurt. This past spring, Panhel and IFC were looking at all the house shirt designs and letting the chapters know whether or not the shirt could be made with that design. This is the first time that they have done that and they did it for Little 500. The reason we heard was that there were shirts that were getting way out of hand and since Little 500 draws a large crowd, it would be nice to have decent shirts. Apparently, though, they aren't going to be approving shirts for homecoming. Anyway, we paired with a fraternity for Little 500 and their shirt design was denied and they did not have enough time to think of a new design, get it approved and then ordered before the race.

[littleangel2017]

hey everyone,
After reading everyone's replies, i can see all your guy's points of view. As a student for the University in question, i can honestly say that the shirts of the sororities really aren't that bad, as a matter a fact i can count on my hand the amount of shirts that would be considered offensive. To make matters worse only two sororities on campus can say that they have had risky shirts, which in retrospect aren't really that bad.
When I first heard of this agreement my worse fear was "who" was going to police these shirts. I mean I can see it now, sorority XYZ hates member from ABC, so lets get them in trouble. Also a concern is weather or not this does really change the image of greeks. I mean if you have scandelous members who continue to defame the very principals you were founded on. THEN putting them in a nice shirt really isn't going to make your organization look any better. As a little side note, I can honestly say that some of the so called "more conservative" sororities on campus are the first ones, making-out with each other, talking negatively about the non-greek population, speaking in class about getting wasted, and finally doing poorly in school. So is it really the shirts or the member education that is faulty? I believe it's the member education, i mean if you don't show your members the importance of image, values and principals of your organization they will continue to give us ALL a bad name and the sterotypes will continue to come about. Pride comes from within, not changing the outside in hopes of changing the inside. Remember Recruit men and women who want to up hold those values and want to give or organization a good name, only then can we dispil some of the sterotypes.

p.s. sorry for the mis-spellings


in greek unity,
silverlee

[33girl]

I agree that this is a bad idea. Everyone's ideas of "obscene" vary greatly, and it sounds like it's more a thing for groups to get each other in trouble - kind of like the BS rush infractions where people get busted if a rushee leaves with glitter on the sole of her shoe. Plus that part about "derogatory vocabulary"? WTF? That would eliminate all the shirts with things like "conceited slogans mean nothing without the right letters" and such. Which from what I've seen is 2/3 of them.

Maybe if we didn't make shirts for every blessed event and just concentrated on wearing our letters we wouldn't have this problem, LOL.

[Harmony]

Event shirts at our schol have to be approved otherwise they're disqualified for thr competition (ex-Homecoming, Greek Week, etc.). Granted, not all orgs care about the competition, but that is a statement on the already rigid intrusion of local PHC on chapters. I think the censoring of any t-shirts by PHC is a terrible idea, personally. Nationals should be involved more with their chapters if their girls are making shirts that they don't like. Nationals should have the final say over what their chapters are doing, not Panhellenic. If someone is offeneded on a personal level, then their complaints should be brought to the chapter, not to a somewhat unaffiliated 3rd party.

[USFEVP]

Hi everyone! I'm a regular poster, but I'm disaffiliated for the summer because I am on USF's Panhellenic Exec, so I have a code name! I'm the Executive VP, or judicial person basically. I would be the person sororities would come to in order to have risque shirts approved before they are even made. I would also be the person to enforce this new proposal. This proposal was first thought of at the South East Panhellenic Conference (SEPC), after we attended a seminar that specifically addressed the issue of the image Greek women portray when they are wearing shirts that have slogans referring to sex, alcohol, etc. Our Panhellenic President thought it would be a good idea for sorority women to hold themselves to a higher standard, and clean up our act. I agree to a point, I'm sure that one of our older alumnae would not appreciate seeing a shirt that says "Absolut XYZ" and has a picture of a bottle. I can't really talk, I have some shirts that I won't even bring home to mom...but t-shirts do not change behavior.

It only takes one day of wearing a shirt with letters for everyone in your classes to know you are Greek. Most of the time, we walk around like billboards for our orgs, with bags, t-shirts, flip flops, etc. If a sorority members sits in class and talks and gossips to her friend about this crazy drunk party, and what she did with that guy...how will her wholesome t-shirt give people a good image of Greek Life? Actions speak louder than words on a t-shirt.

I see both sides to this argument. I think the proposal is a very good idea, if only we could get the guys to comply as well! (Some of their shirts have been bad!) The proposal does not count for shirts from years past. This is what will happen if the proposal passes: Basically, if a sorority wants to make a shirt with a questionable slogan, they have to run it by me. If I have doubts, then I'll run it by the rest of Panhellenic Exec board. If we say no, and the sorority still makes it, or if a sorority makes a risque shirt without even asking, we will treat it as an infraction of the Constitution and follow NPC Judicial Procedures.

We're really trying to promote Greek unity and a positive Greek environment at USF. We're about to open our brand new Greek Housing Community in August, which will start a brand new era in Greek Life. Panhellenic is simply trying to emphasize the sisterhood and leadership oppurtunities of sororities and downplay the party-girl stereotypes that we all know and hate.

In Greek Unity,
USFEVP

[James]

ITs just not something you are really suposed to be doing. I can definitely see how it would come out of that type of leadership conference. I have been to enough of them to see the pattern.

The conference is heavily attended by not just the president's of various undergrad groups, but also their advisors.

Trust me, I attended seminars with my Greek Advisor in the same room and ending up in the same work group trying to create ideas to make Greek Life more positive.

Micromanaging t-shirts is definitely somehting that would be brought up at a conference like that because the environmental context is so uptight, strict, and heavily administration based. At least in terms of agenda.

Just to be nice, I'll say its great that you want to brighten up the Greek image, but to use the vernacular, keep it real!

If you want to eliminate risque stuff, then start a campaign to eliminate all risque behaviors. Make a no-social function policy. Without social functions you won't have stereotypes.

Originally posted by USFEVP
Hi everyone! I'm a regular poster, but I'm disaffiliated for the summer because I am on USF's Panhellenic Exec, so I have a code name! I'm the Executive VP, or judicial person basically. I would be the person sororities would come to in order to have risque shirts approved before they are even made. I would also be the person to enforce this new proposal. This proposal was first thought of at the South East Panhellenic Conference (SEPC), after we attended a seminar that specifically addressed the issue of the image Greek women portray when they are wearing shirts that have slogans referring to sex, alcohol, etc. Our Panhellenic President thought it would be a good idea for sorority women to hold themselves to a higher standard, and clean up our act. I agree to a point, I'm sure that one of our older alumnae would not appreciate seeing a shirt that says "Absolut XYZ" and has a picture of a bottle. I can't really talk, I have some shirts that I won't even bring home to mom...but t-shirts do not change behavior.

It only takes one day of wearing a shirt with letters for everyone in your classes to know you are Greek. Most of the time, we walk around like billboards for our orgs, with bags, t-shirts, flip flops, etc. If a sorority members sits in class and talks and gossips to her friend about this crazy drunk party, and what she did with that guy...how will her wholesome t-shirt give people a good image of Greek Life? Actions speak louder than words on a t-shirt.

I see both sides to this argument. I think the proposal is a very good idea, if only we could get the guys to comply as well! (Some of their shirts have been bad!) The proposal does not count for shirts from years past. This is what will happen if the proposal passes: Basically, if a sorority wants to make a shirt with a questionable slogan, they have to run it by me. If I have doubts, then I'll run it by the rest of Panhellenic Exec board. If we say no, and the sorority still makes it, or if a sorority makes a risque shirt without even asking, we will treat it as an infraction of the Constitution and follow NPC Judicial Procedures.

We're really trying to promote Greek unity and a positive Greek environment at USF. We're about to open our brand new Greek Housing Community in August, which will start a brand new era in Greek Life. Panhellenic is simply trying to emphasize the sisterhood and leadership oppurtunities of sororities and downplay the party-girl stereotypes that we all know and hate.

In Greek Unity,
USFEVP

[James]

This is a bit tangential . . .

I find it amusing that we go on and on about how we are leadership and service organizations when in reality we are primarily social organizations with leadership opportunities that incidentally does some limited service

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with being social organizations. However, to go overboard about how we are primarily leadership or service based is makes a mockery of those organizations that truly fit that bill.

If you want a viable comparison, compare the average chapter in your organization with a comparable NPHC group. You will find that they do many times the amount of service and leadership projects with a fraction of the membership.

Its all well and good to want to create an illusion of being something we are not, but all it does in the end is perpetuate the sterotypes we seek to defuse.

[33girl]

USFEVP,

As I said before, if the Panhellenic is choosing to micromanage (copyright James) things like T-shirts, why not just say that letters and crests are the only things that can be worn?

The "absolut" shirt and sexual connotations are one thing...it's another when you have a shirt that says something like "Do you ever think you picked the wrong sorority? We don't." All it takes is one person to get offended and say "you're bashing my group" and that shirt is out. I think you see where I am going.

Furthermore, if the guys are the ones with the really disgusting shirts, why are you choosing to hamstring yourselves instead of getting on their case and saying we won't mix/do homecoming with you if you keep it up? That's what you would do if a store or restaurant did something you dislike, if it is that important it should apply to fraternities too. I doubt that adding another regulation for the sororities will do anything to change the fraternities' behavior if it doesn't affect them in any way.

[SigkapAlumWSU]

I think that this idea is a well intentioned one. Who wouldn't want to do something positive to change Greek stereotypes? At the same time, though, I don't think that this is the best way to go about it. The wording for the agreement is so broad, you would have to judge each incident as a seperate case. You would have to define what exactly is considered lewd, or inappropriate, and almost everyone will have a different definition.

At my school, I think that we have to get approval for our shirts through either an advisor, or collegiate provence officer. Not that we have problems with offensive or inappropriate shirts, but it's still a good safety to have.

I can count on one hand the number of shirts that I have seen on my campus and thought were "questionable." Apparently, most people use common sense when planning shirt designs.

[sugar and spice]

I think it would be better if:

a) You had specific guidelines as to what is considered worthy of censhorship (i.e., "No sex, alcohol or drug references")

or

b) You say that every shirt design must be OK'd by the Greek advisor before it's printed. This hopefully eliminates the sororities "tattling" on each other.

Honestly, though, I have yet to see a sorority tee shirt that I'd consider "obscene" . . . It's mostly the fraternities that seem to have problems with it.